Because your point, from the very start,
I do not accept your summation, I have never argues that people are taking it as a weakness, my post specifically said
I'd like to see more consequences of Fredrick's lack of pride
I acknowledge that in the story there isn't currently this reaction to what I would perceive as this lack of pride, and as a critique of the story I'm suggesting one thing to include more, just as I noted a point about the pacing in my initial post.
I will however acknowledge that I could have been clearer in what exactly I meant as 'pride'. I thought my references to the fisher king logic and the idea of gravitas were sufficient, but evidently not.
My point, to restate it more carefully, is that in history rulers have a certain 'public pride', their gravitas or dignity. A ruler without this mystic quality is less likely to be obeyed. Sometimes in history kings were compelled by their nobles, the church, or other powers to do various things, or their dignity was injured in other ways. My argument has been that I think, based on the historical examples I'm aware of, that the various injuries to Frederick's dignity (again acknowledging that my use of 'pride' may not have been the best descriptor), would increase the likelihood that various actors might oppose him because he's been shown not to be overly concerned with defending this dignity.
In my defence regarding the 'pride' issue, I think I'd been thinking about one of the GM posts regarding the whole marienburg situation which has couched it in those terms.
The two that stand out are Marienburg TriClaw and the Lodge. Both of these are cases where a hostile state has attempted to damage Ostland for years without significant pushback. Yes it was brought up at the Meet, but no direct action was taken by Ostland, it was passed up the chain to Magnus, who even remarked that Freddy had suffered various
Another example would be conceding the Middle Mountains, though I'll also acknowledge that there was indeed a confrontation there.
The various insults of the previous Hochland ruler, from being suspicious about questions regarding the disappeared villagers and the smoke, to the various threats when the Ostland army was clearing the province.
Talebheim, the initial response might have been acceptable, but then the paying off, the various subsequent insulting messages and opposition in the Meets.
The Meets themselves, specifically the one where the new tax thing was brought up. I have no specific proposals for what sort of revenge or pushback would have been appropriate for each elector who'd clearly been influenced against ostland. Irl we normally see sanctions, diplomatic battles, that sort of thing in these cases.
Engineer grudges, see talebheim basically
This whole marienburg thing
That witch hunter guy slinking off after he tried the stake thing
Intelligence services, specifically the witchhunters failing to inform of the 20 years of events of their interlude, baggins regarding the lodge, that sort of thing
Kislev and Laurelorn insults by word or deed, I'm grouping them together as essentially these are foreign diplomats or rulers apparently unwilling to do diplomacy properly. One might explain the actions with reference to the arrogance of the different parties, but this doesn't mean the insults aren't insulting.
I'll leave it there for now, possibly more but I think that's sufficient for examples.
Zhufbar adventure had little to do with human religion. So that`s a bad example choice. Religion permeates throughout humanity in The Empire. If someone comes to attack a notable figure linked to a religious act by a major religion. That fool will need to voice their displeasure not too loudly. Or be somewhat cautious about what they say and if what they are saying relates to a religion.
Somewhat missing my point. I wasn't referring to the empire's religion there I was talking about the dwarves. Even though he's drunk Gazul's beer he still had to deal with the engineers. I don't recall precisely when the engineering grudge was levied but I'm pretty sure it was some time after Ungor, meaning news of Ostland and its leader's accomplishments would have had time to percolate through the Dwarven realms. Despite the many impressive things accomplished there the engineers still put the grudge in. By the same logic, certain sects of the Empire wouldn't be impressed by Sigmar's blessing, though I entirely acknowledge that they might be impressed anyway by various other things.
I'm going to need examples for 'In a medival society based on concepts which modern societies don't have insults against the dignity of a person can be perceived to insult the state in general and threaten the social fabric.' What concepts?
And two, you are misusing the concept of The fisher king; considering Ostland has advanced more under Freddy's rule than under anyone else's. It also does not apply to foreign policy. Your witch hunter example is also bogus. The hunters don't go unchallenged because we like them but because they don't answer to us. Only the Grand Theologist and Magnus the Pious can order them around and expect to be obeyed. The reason they don't tell us shit is mostly because the previous leader was both racist and never fit for the job even if she wasn't. As it is we have challenged them, by marrying a foreign magic user and more recently building that library. This is all information you can find in the regular turn updates. Please read them.
On the first point, in modern societies we generally accept things like freedom of speech, conscience etc. It's permissible, though rude, to insult people, even insulting them with particularly unpleasant slurs etc. Comparably, in various medival societies where concepts like honour were considered more important you could permissibly kill someone for insulting you. I would specifically use the example of medival iceland in this case, but there are plenty of others going through up to the Modern period.
On the other more societal concepts we have things like the divine right of kings. By what right does the king rule? From where does his legitimacy lie? This doesn't match 1 to 1 onto the Empire here, but it does at least look like it with things like the Runefangs giving legitimacy. I mention gravitas above, this is a concept predating the medival period but pretty similar.
I also mentioned the fisher king, I'm not saying ostland hasn't advanced, and therefore people might still perceive freddy's rule as beneficial and him as a good ruler on the basis of 'good country MUST = good ruler', but I'm saying that I'd like to see more examination of the consequences of allowing the dignity of the ruler being insulted. Here 'insulted ruler = insulted country'. Therefore the 'concepts' I was referring to would normally mean a ruler must avenge insults against him or be mocked and disobeyed.
Regarding the witch hunters I find your tone rather insulting. I did read the posts, I'm perfectly aware the witch hunters don't answer to the Elector Counts and that they might not have the best opinion of the family, but they're still in Ostland, presumably taking advantage of the various military forces for support, embedded in the various units and so on. There were constant struggles in Europe regarding autonomous military monastic orders and their relations between secular and religious authorities. Kings didn't just say 'oh actually you're under the pope so do what you like you don't need to report to me'. They're linked by name to the Knights Templar in real life and they operate in a similar manner, under an overall authority for a specific task. Furthermore, in the most recent case the templars are notable for their failure. Regardless of the policies of their order they should have informed the count of such a large and well funded cult, and especially given said cult has a personal connection to the count. They just about have the fig leaf of their specific duties saying 'we didnt tell you because we dont have to', but equally that's another insult to the dignity of the ruler and of ostland. The leader of the witchhunters wasn't even removed from their position (though I'll admit this was a player vote so not necessarily something to be solved in the narrative manner I suggested), essentially, like plenty of other cases, Freddy has said 'ok well dont worry about it this time, just dont do it again yea?'
