- Location
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Not what I see, we are talking about these people from a reclaimed lost ancient dwarf hold...
Dwarf hold named Karak Azgal, not found on hold list with Karak Ungor.
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Warhammer Fantasy: A Dynasty of Dynamic Alcoholism
- Thread starter torroar
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Massgamer
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It might still count as a minor hold at the moment since it was only reclaimed recently and hasn't had the huge migration of dwarfs like Karak Ungor had.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
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@torroar this is random but curious since just came across it randomly and wonder how it might play into quest at all.
We talked about Insanity earlier a little bit, curious how Ostland in general deals with it, I assume the dangerous ones are handed off to Shayllans to take care of at best or killed off at worst, but how is homosexuality viewed in WHF?
I saw some things in WH40K books where it appears that it's no big deal but considering WHF's setting is it persecuted by the various faiths and seen as a corruption of Slaanesh at all? I ask since curious what would happen if at some point a main character was revealed to be homosexual.
If anyone has any knowledge about lore more than me would like to hear, the best I have been able to tell rather than a few small instances GW doesn't touch the matter with a ten foot pole at all.
We talked about Insanity earlier a little bit, curious how Ostland in general deals with it, I assume the dangerous ones are handed off to Shayllans to take care of at best or killed off at worst, but how is homosexuality viewed in WHF?
I saw some things in WH40K books where it appears that it's no big deal but considering WHF's setting is it persecuted by the various faiths and seen as a corruption of Slaanesh at all? I ask since curious what would happen if at some point a main character was revealed to be homosexual.
If anyone has any knowledge about lore more than me would like to hear, the best I have been able to tell rather than a few small instances GW doesn't touch the matter with a ten foot pole at all.
Well, this might be weird, but I don't consider homosexuality a form of insanity. So no, Shallyan prayers or whatever wouldn't do anything. They're, for the most part, just people. Are there depraved folks who might be homosexual or bisexual or whatever? Sure. Just like there can be depraved people of any sexuality. Chaos or not. Etc. Hell, just going by cultural standards in the ones that inspired the WH ones i.e. ancient greece/spain/egypt/arabia for Tilea, Estalia, and Nehekhara, Araby, etc. there's less issues about it than there might be.
You've already met a few characters, one of whom is open about it, in this quest who aren't straight/cis/whatever you want to say. I just don't have that be their sole defining or even largely notable characteristic because of those whom I have interacted with in real life - outside of a handful of outliers amongst a much larger bunch - don't have it be their sole defining characteristic.
Sure, some people in an old, superstition-filled world with notably weird backwards stuff might find it abhorrent. But, like, yeah. That just comes with the territory of an old world based around 'ye olden days' of the world.
You have not been doing trade. There are very specific agreements and things brought up about such stuff in the informational tab, I believe.
You are getting very strict payments from some elves to rent some property. Which comes in very, very standard and not-trade bullion rather than trade goods or otherwise.
Massgamer
Advance toward the Future
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Oh shit, did my post come across that way at all?
That was not my intention at all, I just meant we talked about earlier how you said insanity and other mental things really do tend to be the work of Daemons or something in WHF. Kinda like how apparently all germs in WHF are tiny daemons of Nurgle.
I just want to make it clear I have no issue with other people's sexuality at all I was just curious how it was viewed in Old World of quest what with our own RL history not being kind to them. What with Slaanesh being a very real thing it would be easy for priests to claim said people who don't follow the norms to be viewed as followers of chaos even though like you said they are just people.
Kinda a like how not all mutants are followers of chaos but are pushed towards it by a society that hates them.
And that is totally fair, to be perfectly honest I don't recall what characters you speak of.
Interesting, oldly progressive for WHF Empire but not complaining.
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- Location
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I think they meant that people in the setting would consider them to be insane or depraved the same way that they would be in some IRL medieval societies, rather than implying that they themselves saw homosexuality as wrong. So homosexuals might be handed off to Shallayans to be "fixed", regardless of the fact that there's nothing to fix. The latter half your reply seems to imply that this isn't the case either, though.
EDIT:
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
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Really?
I thought we organised doing "trade" with Aurellion back at the first electors meet...or am I vastly minterpreting what that was/it got called off at some point.
Kinda.
My interpretation of the world is that in some ways it can be surprisingly progressive for its equivalent time due to common dangers magic etc.
You don't care if the guy next to you in the shield wall against the beastmen herd is gay or not, can they hold the sword and shield properly kill the bleating menace.
When the world is dark and full of terrors, you have much more reason to be afraid and prejudiced against the people who could randomly explode into daemons at any second than a lesbian.
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but did we not make a trade deal with House Alleria?
And unfortunately that has become somewhat rare nowadays. Homosexual people can't be "normal" in fiction anymore, they have to be extremely flamboyant and in your face about it. Not that I have anything against those people, it's just that most homosexual people are just... well... people! There's no need to caricaturize them into stereotypes and make their sexuality their sole reason for existence and I genuinely applaud you for being above that.
Aramis
An unwilling witness
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Can we just not start this? Please? This isn't the appropriate thread for this talk.
Eh, I figure they take a doesnt hurt dont ca re view to anything non culty myself. If nothing else the Witch hunters would probably have gotten pretty good at spotting the difference
That said a gray pride parade would probably be considered a Slaneeshi cult....granted a parade of straight people doing stuff like that would be considered a Slaneeshi cult too. Or atleast that's what the meme of them is. How accurate is that?
Know Gay people but like Indian gay people. Pretty much dont know dont care here.
That said a gray pride parade would probably be considered a Slaneeshi cult....granted a parade of straight people doing stuff like that would be considered a Slaneeshi cult too. Or atleast that's what the meme of them is. How accurate is that?
Know Gay people but like Indian gay people. Pretty much dont know dont care here.
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Here's the thing.
Stephan von Kessel got a face ruining brand of the mark of Chaos on his face. To forever let people know he was the son of traitors, and would have to be watched forever.
As a child. One or more people held down a child so that a brand about the size of half of his face was applied. And this was all well and good, by the standards of the universe.
Suspicion and paranoia are a virtue of the Sigmarite faith. Three of the original Marks of Sigmar is literally divinely altered your personality with boosts to Suspicion, Grudge Holding, and Stubbornness.
Sexuality is just one more thing that I have zero doubt that has been used to accuse someone of something. People are burned at stakes for happening to be around when bad luck happens, on suspicion of being a witch or a servant of Chaos. Anything outside of what someone considers the norm could be an issue. What that norm is, from place to place, no doubt varies. I'm sure nobles get better treatment, or are expected to at least 'do their duty' at some point or another, it's certainly happened in the real world that children are born from such circumstances. Others...might not be. And so on and so forth.
What I said before? Is the legal and official response, my dude. In-quest.
True enough. And let this discussion end here, now.
So on to other topics.
I was perusing 1d4chan (yeah I know, but I was bored) and looked up their page on the Ogre Kingdoms.
Looks like GW set them up as a pretty neat army in 8th edition. Anyway, while reading it I was wondering how you would stat out an Ogre army based on Ostland's.
Thinking on it, I came to agree with Torroars statement that the Army of Ostland is really two armies in one. A normal Imperial one and an odd Ogre army.
I say odd due to how its setup. You have essentially 5 units compared to the usual dozen or so:
Steelbacks = Ogres/Ironguts
Thunderbringers =Leadbelchers
Pulverizers = ?Maneaters?
Urgdug's Maelstrombringers = Elite Leadbelcher unit attached to Tyrant
Urgdug = Tyrant
They are missing out on cavalry, magic and long range firepower. However in exchange they have great weapons and armor, perhaps better morale and weapon skill.
Put them up against a typical Ogre force with similar numbers and I'm sure they will prevail. Though I think that has as much to do with Urdug being much more intelligent and experienced than most Tyrants as it does on the gear and discipline.
Any thoughts?
I was perusing 1d4chan (yeah I know, but I was bored) and looked up their page on the Ogre Kingdoms.
Looks like GW set them up as a pretty neat army in 8th edition. Anyway, while reading it I was wondering how you would stat out an Ogre army based on Ostland's.
Thinking on it, I came to agree with Torroars statement that the Army of Ostland is really two armies in one. A normal Imperial one and an odd Ogre army.
I say odd due to how its setup. You have essentially 5 units compared to the usual dozen or so:
Steelbacks = Ogres/Ironguts
Thunderbringers =Leadbelchers
Pulverizers = ?Maneaters?
Urgdug's Maelstrombringers = Elite Leadbelcher unit attached to Tyrant
Urgdug = Tyrant
They are missing out on cavalry, magic and long range firepower. However in exchange they have great weapons and armor, perhaps better morale and weapon skill.
Put them up against a typical Ogre force with similar numbers and I'm sure they will prevail. Though I think that has as much to do with Urdug being much more intelligent and experienced than most Tyrants as it does on the gear and discipline.
Any thoughts?
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
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- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
pride, mostly.
Technically, all Ostlander Ogres would count as a brand of Maneater. As the idea of Maneaters is that of Ogres who adopted (part of) a foreign culture(and they are more of a flexible unit that adds variety than something that makes Ogres even better at being superheavy infantry).
The Ostlander tribe itself doesn't seem to have such a varied bunch of Oddballs who traveled the world though, so they don't really have a Maneater analogue themselves.
Steelbacks can probably be classified as pure Ironguts considering we have 100 Ogre Spearmen in the Militia. Steelbacks having Ironfists in addition to their Great Weapons is a perk of the Ostland Ogre army list.
Pulverizers might resemble Maneaters in their having more Special rules but their role is more akin to a(heavily) upgraded Irongut. Definitely not a Core unit though, as their insane durability and the fact that they are noted to be selected from the Ogres of Ostland with the greatest physical strength might even warrant a bump to Rare(which is fine given that the usual Rare options for Ogre Kingdoms are not on the table).
Angrad having five Great Names definitely makes her at least a (Bruiser)Hero tier Character though.
For long-range firepower, there's probably a few Human/Halfling artillerist options if Thunderbringers won't suffice. Likewise, for Cav an Ostland Ogre army list might have the options of Human/Halfling Engineers activating Doomspheres or directing Bird Bombers.
And the newfound Taal worship might net us Hunter/Butcher equivalents in due time(though Esmereldan butcher analogues might be more common in Ostland proper).
Modus_Tollens
SCREAMING AT THE APOCALYPSE
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- ALSO SCREAMING.
At least the next generation is going to be bright enough to avoid squandering their merits. Ostland is already very highly selective of ogres of Forrest Gump levels and Urdug, a goddamn ogre Sun Tsu and Confucious combined, had an absolutely ludicrous number of children before he settled down... with what had to be almost every female in the Old World. He is going to sit down and write a version of the Kamasutra that even Slaanesh would be uncomfortable with.
The generation after that will need to watch out for inbreeding, though, but that is a problem for later.
But, yes, thing are only going up from here for their people. Especially when Fred starts gearing them up with the same level of mad science that goes into doomspheres. You can put a lot more mad science on an ogre than you can a human, and expect to get back more than just its disembodied (and probably smoking) feet.
The generation after that will need to watch out for inbreeding, though, but that is a problem for later.
But, yes, thing are only going up from here for their people. Especially when Fred starts gearing them up with the same level of mad science that goes into doomspheres. You can put a lot more mad science on an ogre than you can a human, and expect to get back more than just its disembodied (and probably smoking) feet.
Yeah, that is an odd army.
For Ogres:
1 core unit, 1 Special, 2 Rares and 2 hero types (both named)
Add in the human artillerists for a cannon in Special, same with Doom Spheres and Bird bombers.
Basically your main line will just be a couple large units of Steelbacks with everything else being customized to the situation.
Still, those Steelbacks will be strong and tanky as all hell.
Edit: A good comparison is that they are a nightmarish mix of super heavy cavalry and super heavy infantry all in one large package.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
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Worshiping gods more pleasant than the Maw will also help them, long-term.
I can see a couple of Taal and Rhea priests joining the army as well eventually. Add to that the increase in numbers we should eventually get and the addition of any other crazy new unit types and I can easily see the Greatbellow ogre clan becoming one of the most formidable in the world.
Urgdug also seems to be considering making some kind of legacy or history project as witnessed from his examining of those engravings in Zuftbart. If we can continue to build an effective counter culture to the Maw it might be possible later to begin expanding Urgdug's philosophy beyond the borders of the Empire.
Urgdug also seems to be considering making some kind of legacy or history project as witnessed from his examining of those engravings in Zuftbart. If we can continue to build an effective counter culture to the Maw it might be possible later to begin expanding Urgdug's philosophy beyond the borders of the Empire.
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- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
It remains to be seen whether they can handle the casualty rates we put them through though. I think yes, given the equally high casualties of the mountains of mourne, but it's hard to tell.
Urdug did his part before settling down.
Two Core units. Steelbacks and Ogre Militia, the latter of which may or may not be forced to use the Empire's Detachment rules(Ogre Kingdoms has 3: Ogres, Ironguts and Gnoblars).
Though given that they're intended to work as Auxiliaries for an Empire force(kind of like the Kislev army book) instead of being truly independent like Ogre Kingdoms, the limited unit roster isn't that unusual.
Urgdug being a Tyrant would make him a Lord though.
The priests and Jade wizards don't just exclusively heal Humans. And instead of the losers and the weak being at risk of getting eaten, they get good food and drink to help them recover.
And simply having Ironfists makes our Steelbacks better armoured than the average Irongut(if the armour being uniform and less shoddily make wasn't enough).
At our level of combat, Maw Ogres would probably have a higher casualty rate.
- Location
- Somewhere
I feel really silly for not noticing there was a crossed out thing in the edit on the front page. Probably a change in title for the emperor.
Considering the emperor Magnus the Pious is now Schrodeinger's cat, unless qm says something. What spitball ideas do we have if we no longer have Magnus the pious among the living, or available?
Build more canals?
Reduce our military? Build up our military?
We don't really have a plan if empy Magnus dies soon, do we?
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