Okay, that seems reasonable. I still think the Sydraxians are a bigger sword hanging over our head so I won't be changing my vote, but I better get why your vote makes sense to a lot of people now.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Okay, that seems reasonable. I still think the Sydraxians are a bigger sword hanging over our head so I won't be changing my vote, but I better get why your vote makes sense to a lot of people now.
Different from Kahurangi, who normally just brought the head of the Explorer Corps (whomever that might be) to back her up. Also confirmation that Sulu and ch'Tharvasse are the next best at politics. We should remember that in the future.
- Location
- Nova Scotia, Canada
[X][COUNCIL] Pull Your Head Out of the Sand
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
While I think the Syndicate options are needed I'm supporting this plan to cover the 2 council sessions. I hope we can use those to find a way to either stop the fires from starting or put them off until the Syndicate is more manageable, either by us having more ships or by them being more beaten down.
edit: fixed brackets for vote
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
While I think the Syndicate options are needed I'm supporting this plan to cover the 2 council sessions. I hope we can use those to find a way to either stop the fires from starting or put them off until the Syndicate is more manageable, either by us having more ships or by them being more beaten down.
edit: fixed brackets for vote
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This is just my quick take on the situation and random thoughts, not a plan comparison...
[looks at new Council structure]
Whoa. Diplomatic pushes are now expensive. The Constellation refits are now dirt cheap. New shipyards are cheap, to the point where the double-one-megaton yard at Betazed is actually starting to look good... but shipyard expansions are still expensive.
More influence for Orion is cheap at the price, we should totally go for it. Sessions for dealing with our border problems are... pretty well priced, IMO. I'd like to see that hang around, it's a great idea.
So at the moment we really, really do not need more berths. Sooner or later Chen will either get the top slot, or retire, but that's a long way down the road. The same goes for that delicious but expensive heavy industrial complex.
Especially with the latest election results, breaking the Syndicate's back is likely to become the defining achievement of Valentina Sousa's admiralty. If she doesn't succeed in doing so, it's going to break hers.
Right now we're racking up something like 10 Impact/month, but the evidence suggests that a lot of our Impact is going 'splat' against Syndicate resilience. That significantly increases the payoff associated with having more Impact, because it brings us higher above the threshold imposed by their, ah... damage resistance.
And now I have to go probably, unless I'm much mistaken. So I won't have time to run a plan comparison or figure out in detail what I support until an hour or three from now, by which point things may look different or a very clear bandwagon fait accompli may have emerged.
I dunno. Even ignoring the Dawiar, Shrantet is very exposed due to the sheer length of the KBZ. The colony might very well be closer to the nearest Klingon base than it is to Tipperary. They merit at least an outpost for their defense.
[looks at new Council structure]
Whoa. Diplomatic pushes are now expensive. The Constellation refits are now dirt cheap. New shipyards are cheap, to the point where the double-one-megaton yard at Betazed is actually starting to look good... but shipyard expansions are still expensive.
More influence for Orion is cheap at the price, we should totally go for it. Sessions for dealing with our border problems are... pretty well priced, IMO. I'd like to see that hang around, it's a great idea.
The problem is, it's so expensive we can't afford to put it anywhere we aren't building jillions of ships, and the only place that qualifies is Sol. I feel like that's not exactly what Development wants.
At the moment, Briefvoice HAS all the refits scheduled. And frankly, we need refits in our existing berths, because we don't have the crew (or the resources) to keep up with what happens when Patricia Chen supercharges our existing berths to build ships at maximum rate. Having our small berths take a year of downtime to build something else is a much-needed rest.
So at the moment we really, really do not need more berths. Sooner or later Chen will either get the top slot, or retire, but that's a long way down the road. The same goes for that delicious but expensive heavy industrial complex.
Still worth it. Even going off our best estimates of Syndicate strength, this conflict is going to last for something like five more years.1) Anti-Syndicate Legislation influence - the Syndicate is our highest priority to address, as not only are they directly a risk to our ships and infrastructure like the Sydraxians, they're also reducing our pp income (41pp last year!) edit: but looks like this costs 50pp rather than just 20pp
Especially with the latest election results, breaking the Syndicate's back is likely to become the defining achievement of Valentina Sousa's admiralty. If she doesn't succeed in doing so, it's going to break hers.
You're forgetting something.
Right now we're racking up something like 10 Impact/month, but the evidence suggests that a lot of our Impact is going 'splat' against Syndicate resilience. That significantly increases the payoff associated with having more Impact, because it brings us higher above the threshold imposed by their, ah... damage resistance.
And now I have to go probably, unless I'm much mistaken. So I won't have time to run a plan comparison or figure out in detail what I support until an hour or three from now, by which point things may look different or a very clear bandwagon fait accompli may have emerged.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Oh forgot to address the Sydraxian thing. If sending more ships to help out the anti-Syndicate campaign is an argument against taking further snakepit action, then the same could be said about the Sydraxian problem - throw more ships at the problem. I also suspect that the most feasible Sydraxian options that we'll get would require such ships anyway.
I do like the new FACTION vote though, so I'll include that.
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Anti-Syndicate, Apiata, Crew
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
- Location
- somewhere
We don't have any reason to think there are more frame setting options like that which don't conflict with the current ones or are unequivocally better, though. It would be a bit weird to introduce new mechanics at this point in the conflict. Besides much of the increased intensity was from assigning more ships to the task force, and we do more of that without new legislation.
- Location
- Austin, TX
[X] Plan: And a Tech Team!
[X] Request Mining Colony at Corvo, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (15) sr/year)
[X] Request Research Colony at Aga Carmide, 8pp (4 turns, gain +7rp/year)
[X] Request development of Ana Font Shipyard, 15pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp - Computers/Sensors
[X] Request a Council Session for discussing Apiata-Cardassian conflict options, 30pp
[X] NEW Request a Council Session for discussing Sydraxian Hierarchy options, 30pp
[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Can be taken up to four times]
[X] Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp (Rear Admiral Seruk)
I realize that a tech team may not be even usable at this point, but our RP is improving, and we have many branches to work on.
Edit: I can get behind this option for the Orions.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
[X] Request Mining Colony at Corvo, 8pp (4 turns, gain +10 (15) sr/year)
[X] Request Research Colony at Aga Carmide, 8pp (4 turns, gain +7rp/year)
[X] Request development of Ana Font Shipyard, 15pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
[X] Request Academy Development, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
[X] Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp - Computers/Sensors
[X] Request a Council Session for discussing Apiata-Cardassian conflict options, 30pp
[X] NEW Request a Council Session for discussing Sydraxian Hierarchy options, 30pp
[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 20pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Can be taken up to four times]
[X] Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp (Rear Admiral Seruk)
I realize that a tech team may not be even usable at this point, but our RP is improving, and we have many branches to work on.
Edit: I can get behind this option for the Orions.
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I'm not counting on new mechanics; I'm counting on improving our rolls and rewards (edit: and reducing penalties) on the existing ones.
edit: and the potential to add better and more ground units
I actually don't get that impression - reading the MOO updates, I find that it's more ground asset action and the ships ferrying and escorting such assets around, with the occasional 2310-esque anti-piracy action. The ships do contribute their own enlisted as away teams, but looking at the stats, unless we're using Connie-B's, they're inferior to and much less numerous than the Caitian police assets.
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Resilience is a per-year thing, not per-month. We have the entire year to get above their resilience and begin racking up actual damage.
You're missing a bracket for the "X" in your Council vote.
Yeah, but... what about all the screaming when the Sydraxians just nearly ambushed and captured/destroyed the Endurance? Are we really going to put that off another year?
Sure the Syndicate thing is an awful, slogging grind... but it's an awful, slogging grind that we are to all appearances winning. Right now we are not "winning" the Sydraxian situation. It is a steadily deteriorating situation that is spiraling down to a major confrontation. So for me it's a choice between a Syndicate situation that is relatively stable and a highly unstable Sydraxian situation.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
[X][COUNCIL] Pull Your Head Out of the Sand
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Plus, there's a running vote to unleash the pacifists on the Syndicate. How can the pacifists improve our situation, you ask? By putting the syndicate in a no-win. If they DON'T interfere with large-scale humanitarian ops, the feds get good PR and their terror strategy is blunted. If they DO interfere, then they get bad PR from the media machine aligned with the pacifists shoving video of the Syndicate murdering people trying to help the average Orion, and then they lose assets when we locate the point of origin of the attackers and drop a battalion on it.
[X][COUNCIL] Pull Your Head Out of the Sand
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I'm not going to say that the Sydraxian option would not be very nice, but I do think that yes, we could delay it if we send more ships to the SBZ. Which I suspect we'd have to do anyway with whatever Sydraxian option is chosen.
One could argue that we're "winning" in both the Syndicate and Sydraxians cases as long as we keep tossing assets at the problem. One could also say we're being reactionary to both cases (wtf Syndicate resilience, crap an Endurance ambush). I'd rather not couch my argument in such subjective words.
It really boils down to an estimation of whether the Syndicate resilience is high enough and that extra benefits that new legislation will get us (whether direct or indirect influence or our resilience or reduced Syndicate resilience) over the next several years is worth the 50pp and the opportunity costs of an alternative snakepit option. In my estimation, it is.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Hmm, just had another thought:
@OneirosTheWriter, could we "bank" any extra influence we get this snakepit and spend them the next snakepit? For example, suppose we spend 20pp this snakepit for +5 influence. In the next snakepit, could be spend 20pp for another +5 influence, then the 30pp to "spend" that 10 extra influence (and re-choose any legislation options)?
@OneirosTheWriter, could we "bank" any extra influence we get this snakepit and spend them the next snakepit? For example, suppose we spend 20pp this snakepit for +5 influence. In the next snakepit, could be spend 20pp for another +5 influence, then the 30pp to "spend" that 10 extra influence (and re-choose any legislation options)?
Probably too late now, but I suspect using the deal option will be similar to what we did with the Development faction, where they spend other stuff in exchange for sweet concessions, or the Pacifists back when we ramped up the Syndicate attack.
In other words I suspect making a deal with one of the council factions will be the best way to amend the slavery act for more Impact without spending PP, but probably means will get a faction 'flavor' to what is added to the act.
In other words I suspect making a deal with one of the council factions will be the best way to amend the slavery act for more Impact without spending PP, but probably means will get a faction 'flavor' to what is added to the act.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
For humanitarian (sophantitarian, whatever) aid, wouldn't the Development faction work better, considering they're the faction of 'build, build, build, resources, resources, resources'.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It's more of a Pacifist thing. Helping people, building friendships and good will, doing something that is peaceful in nature.
Development faction is for building mining colonies, shipyards, starbases and the like.
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- Location
- Australia
Yep, you can bank it.
- Location
- somewhere
A fixed threshold as high as speculated would suggest that we basically didn't achieve anything the first year, which seems pretty harsh. I think either their resilience is much lower than you think, or it's mechanically different, e. g. reducing impact by a percentage rather than shrugging it off until it hits a threshold.
But even with a 40 resilience per year or the like an extra 10 impact would still only accelerate hitting the next threshold by a little bit over a month.
More ships would help secure our shipping and slightly reduce the risk of taking losses, but wouldn't particularly help with resolving the conflict.
What would be the mechanical basis for "improving our rolls and rewards", and why would you expect those to get unequivocally get better, rather than just making a different trade off? The current legislation provides a sufficient frame work for the actions that are already being taken, and it seems like any further militarization/expansion of policing/investigatory powers could also result in backlash in the form of civil right complaints, additional civilian casualties, and similar negative event outcomes. If the basis instead is additional resources brought to bear, using the command centre of a Connie-B instead of a Constellation or even the explicitly unsuited facilities on a Centaur would already help with that. A Connie-B would also supply 4hp worth of additional ground forces.
The assignment of additional ships to the task force triggered/allowed the assignment of the flag officers we voted for to the operation (or at least contributed to it, I don't think we would have any starfleet officers directly involved if it was just the CFP). 10 hp worth of ground forces are equal to two CFP battalions, so not exactly insignificant, and while they lack some of the special bonuses they also have an extra +4 vs corruption. The fact that there has been relatively little space action doesn't mean the space forces are irrelevant, if the task force wasn't there the CFP would probably suffer severe losses from their transportation being attacked/sabotaged, and it would probably be impossible to put the focus on cleaning up one planet at a time like we do now without the Syndicate just pulling away their assets there.
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Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][COUNCIL] Pull Your Head Out of the Sand
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions
[X][FACTION] Approach the Pacifists about fueling extra sophontitarian relief aid to the Orions