… Jesus Christ! And now they want to go to war with the Romulans only a few decades after the nigh total destruction of their homeworld? Has their leadership gone completely mad?!?

When they gloriously conquer the Romulan Star Empire, a boundless stream of tribute will flow to rebuild their home world. They will Make Qo'nos Great Again. It's a plan that cannot fail*. Of course we'll have to wait for that Fleet Strength report to know what they can really muster.

I wonder how much the results of the war will be determined by random rolls versus @OneirosTheWriter just deciding what will happen.

*Because if it fails, it may be the end of the Klingon Empire. Therefore it cannot fail!
 
… Jesus Christ! And now they want to go to war with the Romulans only a few decades after the nigh total destruction of their homeworld? Has their leadership gone completely mad?!?
I'm gonna finish this up soon (probably tomorrow), but as a little preview-Qo'nos' population has been successfully redistributed to various colony worlds with only slight hunger problems, their industry has been moved closer to other resourcing areas, and distributed to prevent another single-point of failure, and the planetary and environmental engineering efforts on Qo'nos are going really well.

Basically, they've pulled a France after the Franco-Prussian wars, and grown the Imperial economy as a whole despite the massive outlay of resources here. It's the only way to explain how by TNG, the Klingon capital is not only safe for pedestrians and night clubs, and Worf's trips to various natural wonders on the homeworld. A bit 'squaring the circle
 
… Jesus Christ! And now they want to go to war with the Romulans only a few decades after the nigh total destruction of their homeworld? Has their leadership gone completely mad?!?
They are totally sane....

For Klingons.

> : V
There's nothing for the stability of an Empire like a fresh war. Losing is, of course, bad but peace can be worse.

Which reminds me, I was looking at some of the old logs. The Federation had actually been arguing that the Apinae have been losing Foragers to Cardassuian attacks since before we met them.
Which puts a bit of perspective on just how long this has been coming to a boil.
 
The thing that keeps the Klingons from completely falling apart is that, no matter what happens, they always seem to find a way to make the combination of resourcefulness and balls of steel matter.

The aftermath of the Praxis disaster is, I'm sure, no exception.
 
And it's Canon that if the Klingons decided to throw down with Federation into the 2350s/60s, they'd be winning. (Yesterday's Enterprise)

Of course I always laid that down to the Federation getting alpha struck and not being able to turn things around fast enough.

Of course I figure that only months after that Episode the Romulans and/or Cardassians entered the war as Federation co-belligerants because no way on hell they are letting the Klingons control that much space. (I also like to image that Bajor is in Klingon hands and the Cardassians liberate Bajor, for maximum galaxy upsidedownness)
 
Me, I figured the Cardassians had already jumped the Federation from the other side and that was part of why the Federation was losing so badly- we know Cardassia fought the Federation in canon during the same general timeframe.
 
Me, I figured the Cardassians had already jumped the Federation from the other side and that was part of why the Federation was losing so badly- we know Cardassia fought the Federation in canon during the same general timeframe.

I just like the idea of that Timeline being completely Topsy turvey with the Villans of TNG coming to the rescue from the Allies. Just a total "Huh?" Of course the war still drags out for another decade still. This a darkest Timeline after all.
 
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Which reminds me, I was looking at some of the old logs. The Federation had actually been arguing that the Apinae have been losing Foragers to Cardassuian attacks since before we met them.
Which puts a bit of perspective on just how long this has been coming to a boil.

You know, going by reported fleet strengths the Cardassians are not completely out of the Apinae's league even on their own. I mean, they would be at a major disadvantage but victory wouldn't be impossible if the Bee people won a few crucial early battles and managed to build on their momentum. There have been plenty of historical examples of people with smaller total armies managing to defeat bigger foes.

If I were the Cardassians I would have thought long and hard about that before I spend a decade poking them. I would further consider that even a moderate level of Federation support could swing things pretty decisively. But hey, what do I know about the strength of their glorious union.
 
It may be that the Apiata have been building ships like crazy for exactly this reason, because they've been trying to bulk up to where the Cardassians will have to look at them, go 'gulp,' and give up.

They may have looked a lot smaller and punier back in 2302 or whenever, when the Cardassians started bullying them.

EDIT: The Cardassians may have originally planned an escalating series of raids followed by a takeover some time in, say, 2308-9, with the Apiata military softened up by the raids, and pro-Cardassian hives waiting to take over the government.

Then we showed up.

The presence of our Explorer Corps may have helped prevent the Cardassians from doing actual, serious economic damage that would weaken the Apiata buildup, and by 2308 or so the Cardassians may have realized that their planned "and then we maul them!" operation wasn't going to be happening, or if it did it'd be a total disaster.
 
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Omake - The King's Peace - Iron Wolf
The King's Peace
Wenefiir Palace, seat of the Seyek Monarchy, stood out from the other buildings of the Rethelian capital. First was its height -- Seyek architecture preferred buildings low to the ground, dug into the earth in various tunnels and burrows, their exteriors often simple and no-nonsense, unless their builder had been attempting to make some sort of statement. By contrast Wenefiir was tall, with spires reaching up to the heavens, exterior richly adorned in precious metals and gemstone-glass. It had a certain grace to it that most of the surrounding Seyek buildings lacked -- indeed, that most of them lacked. The security arrangements were odd, as well -- simple alternating bars of deceptively strong metal, topped with platinum-plated spikes that signalled royalty. The main gate was flanked by two featureless concrete pillars, a pair of Seyek guards posted in small recesses cut into them. The stiff guards at the rear gate scarcely moved as a convoy of three hovercars approached. The main gate was flanked by two featureless concrete pillars, a pair of Seyek guards posted in small recesses cut into them. The stiff guards at the rear gate scarcely moved as a convoy of three hovercars approached. The center vehicle was painted a deep red. Cream stripes, bordered by two bands of black, ran down the flanks of the vehicle and through the center-line of the roof. The lead and rear vehicles had a different scheme -- still the same red, but the center stripe now black, bordered by alarming yellow. It matched the striping on a band wrapped around the right arms of each guard.

The lead vehicle pulled up briskly, the transparent aluminum on the driver's side unfolding to reveal a brown-scaled Seyek, who promptly passed identification to one of the guards. They scanned it quickly and then turned and signaled back towards the palace. The gates swung open as the guard slithered back to their post, the hovercars quietly gliding onto the grounds beyond, soon passing through an archway built into the exterior of the palace. Shadow had barely touched the interior before they emerged into the bright courtyard beyond, pulling up smoothly to a covered entranceway, flanked by two Fiiral dressed in light formal clothing. The side of the car with the two black stripes slid upwards, and the Fiiral clasped their four sets of claws together, tentacle-arms limp in deference as a jet-black Seyek slithered out. A light breeze rustled the pink overgarment she wore over her upper body as she looked at the two Fiiral, tongue tasting the air.

"Salutations, Chancellor Celessan," the Fiiral chittered singsong voices, "The King is awaiting your audience."

"Excellent," Celessan said, as her aide Xichen, a slimmer male with white-pink scales, slithered out of the car. She let the Fiiral attendees lead her down the familiar path to the King's private office, through a series of corridors. They were tastefully furnished, decorated with religious artifacts from the long Fiiral history and ornately-framed pictures of past monarchs and saints hanging from the walls. The carpet was magnificently patterned, but a bit threadbare from the shoes that tread it and the scales that dragged over it. Celessan supposed the wear added a sense of ruggedness to the sophistication, a reminder that even in these ornate settings, work was being done.

After a few twists and turns, mostly to avoid tour groups, they came to the Grand Gallery, the high ceiling held up by two rows of graceful pillars. At the base of each one was an attendant, who bowed in respect as Celessan passed. She bobbed her head slightly in return. At the far end of the hall the pillars ended and the roof -- really just the floor above -- opened up to a high vaulted ceiling, honey-colored sunlight streaming down through panes of transparent gold-aluminum. At the last pair of pillars before the staircase Celessan saw a familiar, blue-cloaked Rigellian speaking to one of the attendants.

"Ambassador Duvip, such a pleasure to see you!" she said as she slithered up to the tan-scaled man. He was accompanied by an aide, her cloak a deep maroon.

"Chancellor Celessan," he said, looking up and blinking slowly -- which belied how fast he could speak: "Good to see you! I was just here to talk to one of the Queen's secretaries about hiring some Rigellians. I have to admit, I was hoping to bump into you here today. Save some time."

"The timing is almost suspicious," Celessan said, with a wry flick of her tongue.

Duvip gave her a slow, aw-shucks shrug, "Hey, I have to hope all that lovely time we spent together at your fundraiser paid off. Some little lizards say you were trying to put something pretty similar into action."

Celessan bowed her head down slightly, bringing it closer to Duvip, "You should not always sustain every spurious rumor that happens to slither out of my office. But you are correct. Our discussion was merely confirmation that the Federation would give assent to such a scheme."

Duvip stepped back slightly, squeaking out three quick exhales of bemusement, "Chancellor. I'm just a diplomat for the Rigellian government. Our ratification is still a ways off, and it was way off when I first showed up here."

Celessan flicked out her tongue again, tasting the air. Rigellians were very difficult for the more mammalian species to read -- the scaled plates that made up their faces left very little in the way of expression, and their propensity for cloaks made reading body language difficult. But Seyek were similar, and could read the slight biochemical changes their emotions triggered. Other species would have to settle for hiring a Betazoid. Right now Duvip wasn't giving her much of a read, but she could tell he was a little nervous -- the kind of nervous that mixes with excitement, at the thought of doing something vaguely naughty and getting away with it.

Celessan straightened, "I respect you, Duvip, so I will accept your statement." She blinked one eye, a human expression she knew Duvip was familiar with, "But it is something of an open secret the Federation and Rigellian diplomatic services work closely together -- and see with far sight."

Duvip nodded his head, "I'll take that compliment." He turned to his aide, who stretched her head out in the direction of the door, "But as fun as conspiracy spinning is -- I gotta go. I've kept you from the king long enough."

Celessan nodded and Duvip and his aide both gave her short bows. They blinked, and then in unison thumped down towards the other end of the Grand Gallery. Celessan turned back to the stairs and slithered towards them. Flanking either side were two Fiiral in full ceremonial guard outfit, all purple fabric and glossy metal. Helms of chromed tritanium, with purple tassels hanging off the end, more chrome of a breastplate, purple-and-gold fabric visible underneath. Celessan nodded to them as she slithered by and up, "Chins up, soldiers." They didn't respond. The gleam of the very sharp bayonets on the ends of their plasma rifles glinted in Celessan's eyes as she went by. They'd mounted those as standard on their rifles during the first war in an attempt to give them extra reach in close-quarters -- far too many Fiiral had died with their fragile bones crushed in the coils of a Seyek assault trooper.

And now they let a Seyek slither by them to be alone with their King. Progress, Celessan supposed, but one extracted at a bloody price.

More guards awaited her at the first landing, and then another pair at the top of the stairs. One more outside the door to the King's private office. In the old days, he'd have sat on a throne on the landing below her and issued decrees and proclamations to a court. But that throne was gone, literally and figuratively -- the Palladium Throne had been destroyed in the final war, sabotaged by Fiiral fanatics. As for the powers of those who sat in it… well, by that metric, Celessan's unextraordinary council seat was its successor.

She came to a final pair of guards, outside the last unassuming door between her and the King. "Just a moment ma'am," one of them said. She waited for several seconds outside the unassuming door that led to the office, lowering herself slightly so as not to tower over the guards. The other guard gave off a more pungent heat, leading Celessan to suspect he was sick. A sniffle confirmed her suspicion. The sick guard pressed a hand to her head and then nodded at Celessan, before opening the door.

She slithered through to find the King, dressed in simple (but no doubt-well made) clothes, standing in front of the armchair in which he usually sat for these meetings. "Ah, Celessan!" he said. "I apologize for the delay, there were some family matters that needed attending to."

"Of course, your highness." During the first war, the wry observation from a comedian that 'Seyek do not kneel' went from statement of fact to rallying nationalist cry. Celessan, indeed, lacked the knees with which the traditional supplication pose required, but she did her best with a low head bow of respect, nose almost touching the floor.

"Well, now that the formality is concluded," Iifirdir said, settling into his chair as Celessan straightened again, drawing her coils under her as she stood relaxed, "What shall we discuss today, Celessan?"

"Serious matters, I am sorry to say your highness." Iifirdir straightened somewhat in interest, "Some concerns have been raised by the citizens concerning the recent close-to-skirmishing between the Federation and the Cardassians and their Sydraxian allies during the Kadak-Tor incident."

"I thought that incident was as peacefully resolved as it could be?" Iifirdir said, head cocked, "Aside from the unfortunate crew of the Kadak-Tor and a few Federation shipping vessels, it turned out about as well as could be expected."

"This is true, to be sure. But for many, the positioning of the Explorer Corps near our systems while standing off against the Cardassians was… a step too far." Celessan curved her body slightly in annoyance, "They believe that we came close to a war with the Cardassians, one that would be waged near Rethelia, not the Federation. Such concerns had existed before, of course, but the Explorer Corps seeking refuge in our space has crystallized them." She expanded her hood slightly, a rare expression of nervousness from the elder Seyek stateswoman, "It has… seen the rise of tensions between Fiiral and Seyek. Fiiral is much closer to the Federation's space, and Seyek believe that it will be they who suffer most in the war. We also suspect the Cardassians of psychological operations designed to sow such discord between our peoples."

Iifirdir was quiet for a moment, "A grave concern for our Union to be sure. But what are the odds of a war between the Federation and the Cardassians now? It was my understanding that the Cardassians had withdrawn from the larger galactic sphere after their… mishandling of the Kadak-Tor."

"That is what we had hoped, but some concerns have arisen over a system called Bajor. Both the Federation and the Cardassians have expressed an interest in closer relations with the Bajoran state, have sent envoys and ambassadors. It has the makings of a flashpoint."

"The Bajorans are a deeply spiritual people, are they not? How could they possibly wish to become one with the Cardassians? They are, by all accounts, hardly tolerant of such things."

"We suspect the Cardassians would enforce secularization measures at disruptor point," Celessan said, bluntly.

An awkward moment passed before Iifirdir spoke again, "You'll forgive me some impudence, Celessan, but I am sure you can understand why I would say the Bajorans have my sympathy."

"Indeed I do, your Highness. It is my desire -- and the desire of your government -- that the mistakes we, the Seyek, made a hundred and fifty years ago are not repeated between the Cardassians and the Bajorans. It is a moral imperative from our direct experiences," Celessan paused, "but also a practical one to reduce the chances of all-out hostilities on our borders."

Iifirdir whistled with amusement, "I would never expect you to undertake an action soley out of idealism, Celessan." Iifirdir tapped a claw on his armchair in approval, "An admirable plan in any case. But, unfortunately, this seems like high-level intergalactic relations. I do not see how I could help you navigate these troubled winds in a way the very talented members of your government could not."

"You underestimate yourself, your highness. You are a symbol to many in the Union -- to the Fiiral, a divine manifestation, or at least a nationalist touching-stone. To many Seyek, a sign of our magnanimity and tolerance -- the truth of such things does not matter so much to them. My government has settled on a two-stage plan for you that will gain us internal stability and then hopefully soothe the tensions between the Federation and Cardassians.

"The first stage is for you to survey the worlds of the Seyek Union, not matter how large or small. You will make public appearances, speeches to the masses, tour the facilities and industries that keep our Union slithering forward."

"Surely you would be more equipped for that, Celessan. You are elected by the people."

"Ah, but were it so. Only forty percent of citizens chose me last election. From me, it might seem simply crass. But you are removed from the trappings of politics. You are something more."

Iifirdir nodded, "A tour it is, then. I would enjoy getting out of this castle and seeing more of the Union. I don't believe a single monarch has ever visited all of the Union."

"That is so."

"And the second stage?"

Celessan paused for slight dramatic effect, "We invite the Federation and the Cardassians -- and perhaps their affiliates -- here for a state dinner and summit. Something less weighty than the Bajor situation as the excuse for it, perhaps, but something to get them sitting across the table from one another. Open diplomatic ties slightly more. As it is with our people, it is so in the Federation and the Cardassian Union -- they view you as removed from politics, useless even. You will be a neutral party in a non-neutral state. They will possibly view this as you staying relevant."

Iifirdir chuckled, and based on what Celessan tasted in the air and the way his heat became more pungent, it was out of nerves, "Really, Celessan. I am gracious that you think so highly of me -- in apparent contrast to most of the quadrant -- but I am hardly a diplomat or a scholar. I am not sure I will be up to the calibre of whomever they all send."

"You will have as much time as it takes for you to complete your survey of our systems, and then after that, however long it takes to negotiate the circumstances of their visit. It will furnish you with time to educate yourself on their leaders, if you feel that is necessary. But for the most part, you are simply to be the glue that brings them together." Celessan straightened up, slightly with pride, "Iifirdir, I have seen you grow from a young prince to our young sovereign. I guided you as my predecessor guided your mother. I would not ask this of you if you were not sufficient."

Iifirdir waited a long time, the mechanical clock he'd built on his deck ticking away. Finally, he rose. Celessan coiled herself, bringing herself to his eye level. He nodded, firmly. Regally. "We are in agreement with our government's plan, Chancellor."

Celessan bowed low again. "Thank you, your Highness."

"Is there anything more for the government to report?"

"Nothing of importance, your highness."

"Very well. A pleasant and insightful conversation as always, Celessan. I only pray that the gods can guide me along the path you envision." Iifirdir raised his hand and made the traditional symbol of dismissal, "Go in peace, Chancellor."
 
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So just to get the ball rolling on another big decision....

In 2312 we're going to have a lot of berths open up. You all should start thinking about what ships we will build in those berths. See image below from my spreadsheet:



Specifically:
1. One Excelsior berth opens up in 2312Q1 in the 40 Eridani A shipyard.
2. One Excelsior berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the United Earth Excelsior is completed and launches.
3. One Excelsior berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
4. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
5. One 1mt berths open up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the Oberth there is completed and launches.
6. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the Lor'Vela OCF when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
7. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q4 in the SF Shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
8. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q4 in the SF Shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.

Things to keep in mind:
1. The Renaissance prototype completes in 2314Q2 (two years and one quarter from start of 2312) meaning that we will then be able to build Renaissances, so we might want to make sure there are berths open then to do so.
2. Miranda refits will be available and we can start refitting our 11 Mirandas for one year of berth time each. Doing refits is a good way of doing somethign useful with the berths while allowing us to save up br/sr and crew for later builds.
3. We might want to keep UP 3mt berth open to use for the Ambassador prototype, though even optimistically we can't start building it earlier than 2315.

In the image below I propose starting two Excelsiors, five Miranda refits, and a Centaur-A. However there is room to build more and do less refits if people think that's a good idea.
 
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So just to get the ball rolling on another big decision....

In 2312 we're going to have a lot of berths open up. You all should start thinking about what ships we will build in those berths. See image below from my spreadsheet:



Specifically:
1. One Excelsior berth opens up in 2312Q1 in the 40 Eridani A shipyard.
2. One Excelsior berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the United Earth Excelsior is completed and launches.
3. One Excelsior berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
4. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
5. One 1mt berths open up in 2312Q2 in the UP shipyard when the Oberth there is completed and launches.
6. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q2 in the Lor'Vela OCF when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
7. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q4 in the SF Shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.
8. One 1mt berth opens up in 2312Q4 in the SF Shipyard when the Constitution-B there is completed and launches.

Things to keep in mind:
1. The Renaissance prototype completes in 2314Q2 (two years and one quarter from start of 2312) meaning that we will then be able Renaissances, so we might want to make sure there are berths open then to do so.
2. Miranda refits will be available and we can start refitting our 11 Mirandas for one year of berth time each. Doing refits is a good way of doing somethign useful with the berths while allowing us to save up br/sr and crew for later builds.
3. We might want to keep UP 3mt berth open to use for the Ambassador prototype, though even optimistically we can't start building it earlier than 2315.

In the image below I propose starting two Excelsiors, five Miranda refits, and a Centaur-A. However there is room to build more and do less refits if people think that's a good idea.
I'd like to seriously consider starting another Constitution-B in place of the Centaur-A, unless the resource numbers are unfavorable. My reason is that unless we go for a resource boost, we'll only be able to afford so many Renaissances starting at once in 2314. A bit of staggering in the start times isn't such a bad thing.

An extra ConnieBee doesn't cost that much more than a Centaur-A, and provides considerably better Defense and combat potential. On the other hand, it does cost considerably more crew...

EDIT:

To be clear, my main point is that 'upgrading' from a Centaur-A to a Constitution-B in a given berth has three costs:
1) Two extra crew in each category.
2) 20 bulk and 10 special resources
3) One extra year in the berth.

I don't think (3) is a serious drawback unless we actually think we'll be able to afford to build Rennies in every one-megaton berth we own immediately, starting in 2314. Will we?

(2) is pocket change. (1) is significant if we're crew limited in how many Rennies we can lay down, which is a legitimate concern that I do want to ask about.

The payoff, of course, is a tougher, stronger ship that meets defense requirements better. It's not as good as a Rennie, but it's close- and it doesn't really replace a Rennie. To get one more Renaissance-class than would otherwise be possible, we'd have to entirely defer production of that Centaur-A Briefvoice is talking about, in order to conserve the resources we'd need.

UNLESS, of course, we're actually crew-limited and not resource-limited here. Is that the case?
__________

EDIT:

It looks like Briefvoice's plan has us filling up a lot of one-megaton berths starting in 2314 with Constellation refits. This suggests that he doesn't think we can afford to, say, start half a dozen Rennies in 2314 specifically. In which case, again, getting one more cruiser isn't such a bad thing...

EDIT MK II:

To be specific, we could, say, start one last Constitution-B in Berth Two at Utopia Planitia in place of the Centaur-A. In 2314, that berth, which would otherwise start work on a Rennie, will spend its last year wrapping up the ConnieBee. Meanwhile, Berth One or Three, which are notionally working on Constellation refits, would instead start a Renaissance. We don't get fewer Rennies this way, we just postpone refitting one Constellation (potentially by as little as a year).
 
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I'd rather another Oberth instead of the Centaur personally. According to the Spreadsheet, tech crew isn't going to be an issue, and I think there's more value from another one of them to be assigned to 'special' tasks (assuming the current finishing one goes to regular Starfleet duties).
 
An extra ConnieBee doesn't cost that much more than a Centaur-A, and provides considerably better Defense and combat potential. On the other hand, it does cost considerably more crew...

You should also remember that the Constitution-Bs are complete dead ends as far as refits go. We have squeezed the last drop of power out of that design's warpcore, while Centaurs may still have other refit options show up years down the line.
 
You should also remember that the Constitution-Bs are complete dead ends as far as refits go. We have squeezed the last drop of power out of that design's warpcore, while Centaurs may still have other refit options show up years down the line.

Agreed I'd rather build as few Connie-Bs as we can as they're really a stopgap design until we can mass produce the Renaissance class.
 
Ditto - if we are going to be short on supplies, why not save by doing more refits over the next few years? As in, perhaps next snakepit, we get the constellation refit, and fill berths with those refits in six quarters.
 
I'd rather another Oberth instead of the Centaur personally. According to the Spreadsheet, tech crew isn't going to be an issue, and I think there's more value from another one of them to be assigned to 'special' tasks (assuming the current finishing one goes to regular Starfleet duties).
That is a good alternative proposal.

You should also remember that the Constitution-Bs are complete dead ends as far as refits go. We have squeezed the last drop of power out of that design's warpcore, while Centaurs may still have other refit options show up years down the line.
I'll admit to a certain bias in favor of the Constitutions- though I think any red-blooded Trekkie will understand my feelings in the matter.

The prospect of a notional refit to the Centaur-B that brings its performance more in line with what the Constitution-B can do right now is a relevant one, and it is a point in favor of building a Centaur as opposed to a ConnieBee.

Agreed I'd rather build as few Connie-Bs as we can as they're really a stopgap design until we can mass produce the Renaissance class.
I wouldn't simplify it that far. The Constitution-B is a reasonably good cruiser in its own right, and will probably remain so until well into the 24th century. At least for the next 10-20 years, we'd be fools to replace a Constitution-B with a Renaissance, because the gap in performance is so narrow that we'd see negligible increase in performance.

So I don't think we should view the ConnieBees as 'the ships that we wish we didn't need,' which seems to be how you're interpreting them.

They have a very constructive role to fill for a long time to come, and I view having one more of them as a positive good.

Ditto - if we are going to be short on supplies, why not save by doing more refits over the next few years? As in, perhaps next snakepit, we get the constellation refit, and fill berths with those refits in six quarters.
Well, the only supply that we spend significantly more of by 'upgrading' from a Centaur-A to a ConnieBee in that one berth is crew.

The extra material cost is tiny- seriously, a Centaur-A costs seventy SR to a ConnieBee or Rennie's eighty!

So I don't feel like switching this one ship would actually cause any significant harm to our goal of stockpiling supplies. If we can afford a Centaur-A, we can afford a cruiser that costs almost exactly the same price.

...

For the record, if we had Renaissances available to build, I'd be making the same argument in favor of Rennies. There really aren't a lot of good reasons to build a Centaur-A when you could hypothetically build a Rennie OR a ConnieBee, unless you're short on crew.

That will remain true unless we can reasonably expect the Centaur to get 'B' or (less likely) 'C' refits that boost its statline to something more like an average of "4 across the board," from its present "3 across the board."
 
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I'm definitely in favour of building more Oberths. I'd prefer an Oberth in place of the Centaur-A and possibly in place of one set of Miranda refits, if affordable. With the 1 finishing now that would give us 2-3 new Oberths. If we can assign them all to Starfleet Intelligence (don't know if there is a limit to how many they'll take) I'd like to have one each on the major powers (Cardassians, Romulans and Klingons) and then 1 for either our Syndicate ops or on the Sydraxians.
 
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