To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Simon_Jester · Nov 16, 2016

Honestly, anyone who would favor spending 10pp to get a bleeding edge explorer* that provides +1 or +2 bonuses over the usual run of the mill, at considerably higher up-front cost...

But thinks it's not worth spending 10pp to get a whole cruiser free and clear...

Is just being inconsistent.
________________

*Note that I am not saying a class of explorers. I am saying an explorer. As in, all we'd be buying is, in effect, an upgrade to a single explorer, getting one more Ambassador but one less Excelsior, and paying in crew and resources for the privilege, to boot.

Briefvoice · Nov 16, 2016

Nix said:
We have the tech to build a 3mt Ambassador with current tech if we are willing to accept very good rather than perfect reliability, waiting a bit longer can bring up reliability up a bit more or cost down a bit. Earlier I listed research plans for starting the Ambassador project in either 2312 or 2313 but no one seemed interested in discussing that. I can look at fitting it in for 2311 if people really want.

Well as I said above, if you want to consider it from the perspective of "when would be the best time to start the prototype" then I would say 2315, the year after after the first wave of Renaissances start building. How many years of research are you estimating and when would be the best time to start the research for a prototype start in that year?

tryrar · Nov 16, 2016

Nix said:
We have the tech to build a 3mt Ambassador with current tech if we are willing to accept very good rather than perfect reliability, waiting a bit longer can bring up reliability up a bit more or cost down a bit. Earlier I listed research plans for starting the Ambassador project in either 2312 or 2313 but no one seemed interested in discussing that. I can look at fitting it in for 2311 if people really want.

Mainly nobody discussed it because I think most people are in agreement with that timeline(I certainly don't have an objection!)

SynchronizedWritersBlock · Nov 16, 2016

2311 is too soon. I am not in a rush to start the project.

Nix · Nov 16, 2016

tryrar said:
Mainly nobody discussed it because I think most people are in agreement with that timeline(I certainly don't have an objection!)

As in, a plan for 2312 and another plan for 2313, with different advantages and disadvantages, and no one seemed to have an opinion on the matter.

sebsmith · Nov 16, 2016

Nix said:
We have the tech to build a 3mt Ambassador with current tech if we are willing to accept very good rather than perfect reliability, waiting a bit longer can bring up reliability up a bit more or cost down a bit. Earlier I listed research plans for starting the Ambassador project in either 2312 or 2313 but no one seemed interested in discussing that. I can look at fitting it in for 2311 if people really want.

As a quick reminder, the canon date is 2325:

OneirosTheWriter said:
Ambassador 2325-Now [524m, 3.1m t]
C7 S7 H5 L8 P7 D7
Cost [310br, 240sr, 4 years], Crew [O-6, E-6, T-6]

If we take that as the date the prototype finishes, that means the prototype was started in 2319. Given that research should take about three years, that means the project should be started in 2316 plus or minus a year.

It's been implied that trying to rush it faster than that will hurt the design, so unless we really have no additional techs we can grab between the turn we wish to start the project and the turn it would make canonical sense to start it, I would prefer to wait.

HearthBorn · Nov 16, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
Honestly, anyone who would favor spending 10pp to get a bleeding edge explorer that provides +1 or +2 bonuses over the usual run of the mill, at considerably higher up-front cost...

But thinks it's not worth spending 10pp to get a whole cruiser free and clear...

Is just being inconsistent.

Okay, hold on.

Excelsior - C6 S5 H4 L5 P5 D6
Ambassador - C7 S7 H5 L8 P7 D7
In combat, in nearly any roll, having a blanket +1 across all stats is absolutely worth it. Your shields last three more hits? Fewer crew losses, or even may save the battle for you. Higher science? You solved the latest infection that was about to destroy a colony, vs having another thirty thousand people die. And so on, and so on. Yes, I want that extra bump in stats, thank you. These are our front line ships, the Explorers. I'm not going to accept a middling ship in exchange for a year of time.

HearthBorn · Nov 16, 2016

sebsmith said:
As a quick reminder, the canon date is 2325:

If we take that as the date the prototype finishes, that means the prototype was started in 2319. Given that research should take about three years, that means the project should be started in 2316 plus or minus a year.

It's been implied that trying to rush it faster than that will hurt the design, so unless we really have no additional techs we can grab between the turn we wish to start the project and the turn it would make canonical sense to start it, I would prefer to wait.

If there's a good reason to wait (safety, cost, etc), I'm quite willing to hold off. If it's a 'because history' answer, I want specific reasons. As I understand it, we're on the edge in the shipbuilder's section of being able to pull it off.

OneirosTheWriter · Nov 16, 2016

Good morning, everyone - vote is closed! Where did we end up?

lbmaian · Nov 16, 2016

Blah, disliking the semi-bandwagoning going on, and I don't feel like joining the party. So I'll go with my own crazy plan that's not going to win:

[X][BUILD] Base Plan Go Big or Crash & Burn
-[X] Excelsior @ SF 3mt Berth 1 in Q1
-[X] Excelsior @ 40EA 3mt Berth 2 in Q1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40EA 1mt Berth 1 in Q1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40EA 1mt Berth 2 in Q2
-[X] Constitution-B @ TP 1mt Berth in Q2

Leaves shit for SR reserves, but there's no way the Council can say we are not spending requested resources on Excelsiors.

[X][BUILD] Go Big or Crash & Burn
[X][ASSIGN] Covering all Bases
[X][NAME] Thirishar

Nix · Nov 16, 2016

Briefvoice said:
Well as I said above, if you want to consider it from the perspective of "when would be the best time to start the prototype" then I would say 2315, the year after after the first wave of Renaissances start building. How many years of research are you estimating and when would be the best time to start the research for a prototype start in that year?

Either 2 or 3 years. Possibly 1 year if we wait until 2313 but then prioritize fast over cheap.

Nix · Nov 16, 2016

OneirosTheWriter said:
Good morning, everyone - vote is closed! Where did we end up?

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 532 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4

[X] Maryam Ajam
No. of Votes: 2

MS-21H 'Hawke'
Algalon

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: ASSIGN

[X][ASSIGN] Plan Covering all Bases
-[X] USS Salnas [Excelsior]-> Amarkia
-[X] USS Avandar [Excelsior] -> Andor
-[X] USS Winterwind [Centaur-A] -> CBZ
-[X] USS Lightning [Centaur-A] -> Vulcan
-[X] USS Calypso [Miranda, Vulcan] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Gale [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Bull [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Faithful [Miranda, RBZ] -> Sol
No. of Votes: 25

[X][ASSIGN] Plan Core Focus
-[X] USS Salnas [Excelsior]-> Amarkia
-[X] USS Avandar [Excelsior] -> Andor
-[X] USS Winterwind [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Lightning [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Gale [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Bull [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
No. of Votes: 8

Plan: ◈Core Focus
aledeth
Briefvoice
DarknessSmiles
Gear
MS-21H 'Hawke'
Simon_Jester
UberJJK
wootius

[X][ASSIGN] 1 Excelsior and 2 Centaur-As, Cardassian Border Zone
No. of Votes: 1

Finagle007

[X][ASSIGN] 1 Excelsior, Romulan Neutral Zone
No. of Votes: 1

Finagle007

[X][ASSIGN] 2 Centaur-As, Klingon Border Zone
No. of Votes: 1

Finagle007

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: BUILD

[X][BUILD] Plan Mixture
-[X] Excelsior-class @ San Francisco Fleet Yards
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40 Eridani A Berth 1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40 Eridani A Berth 2
-[X] Refit Centaur @ Ana Font in Q2
-[X] Oberth @ Utopia Planitia Berth 2 in Q2
No. of Votes: 24

[X][BUILD] Plan Forge Ahead
-[X] 1 Excelsior-class explorer @ San Francisco Fleet Yards
-[X] 2 Constitution-B-class cruisers @ 40 Eridani A Shipyards, in the one-megaton berths
-[X] 1 Constitution-B-class cruiser @ Ana Font Shipyard, in the one-megaton berth, starting in Q2.
-[X] 1 Constitution-B-class cruiser @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, in the second one-megaton berth, starting in Q2.
-[X] Refit to remaining Centaur @ 40 Eridani A Shipyards, in three-megaton berth B,
No. of Votes: 10

Plan: ◈Forge Ahead
aledeth
AlphaDelta
Ato
Briefvoice
Gear
Iron Wolf
MS-21H 'Hawke'
Simon_Jester
UberJJK
wootius

[X][BUILD] Plan Go Big or Crash & Burn
-[X] Excelsior @ SF 3mt Berth 1 in Q1
-[X] Excelsior @ 40EA 3mt Berth 2 in Q1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40EA 1mt Berth 1 in Q1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40EA 1mt Berth 2 in Q2
-[X] Constitution-B @ TP 1mt Berth in Q2
No. of Votes: 1

Plan: ◈Go Big or Crash & Burn
lbmaian

[X][BUILD] 1 Excelsior, Utopia Planitia
No. of Votes: 1

Finagle007

[X][BUILD] 1 Excelsior, Ana Font
No. of Votes: 1

Finagle007

[X][BUILD] 2 Constitution-B, 40 Eridani A
No. of Votes: 1

Finagle007

——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: NAME

[X][NAME] Thirishar
No. of Votes: 14

Derek58
Algalon
Gear
lbmaian
Muramasa
Night_stalker
Nix
Random Member
SynchronizedWritersBlock
Theunderbolt
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Yeangst

[X][NAME] Kirk
No. of Votes: 3

Briefvoice
aledeth
MS-21H 'Hawke'

[X][NAME] USS Victory
No. of Votes: 2

Finagle007
Japanime

[X][NAME] Repulse
No. of Votes: 1

Iron Wolf

[X][NAME] Cardassia Prime
No. of Votes: 1

Leila Hann

[x] [Name] Niven
No. of Votes: 1

AKuz

[X][NAME] USS Paris
No. of Votes: 1

Nervos Belli

[X][NAME] USS Yamamoto
No. of Votes: 1

HearthBorn

[X][NAME] Diversity
No. of Votes: 1

Happerry

[X][NAME] Thanatok
No. of Votes: 1

Ato

Total No. of Voters: 36

aeqnai · Nov 16, 2016

Fuck, vote closed right before I caught up. Teach me to stay up to ungodly hours of the morning -_-

tryrar · Nov 16, 2016

sebsmith said:
As a quick reminder, the canon date is 2325:

If we take that as the date the prototype finishes, that means the prototype was started in 2319. Given that research should take about three years, that means the project should be started in 2316 plus or minus a year.

It's been implied that trying to rush it faster than that will hurt the design, so unless we really have no additional techs we can grab between the turn we wish to start the project and the turn it would make canonical sense to start it, I would prefer to wait.

Research is gonna take 5 years dude, or at least according to the best way I can build it in the spreadsheet

The main thing keeping me from jumping on a '12 or even '13 Ambassador is hull reliability of 97.6% according to my best build. I don't actually mind the 97% overall reliability, but hull reliability is one of the two things that can accidentally a ship and I'd like that to be over 98%. We need to finish out at least t2 Explorer hulls before I'm comfortable pulling the trigger

OneirosTheWriter · Nov 16, 2016

Where'd Thirishar come from?

Nix · Nov 16, 2016

aeqnai said:
Fuck, vote closed right before I caught up. Teach me to stay up to ungodly hours of the morning -_-

So if it had close enough to matter you would be just in time to cast the tie-breaking vote.

Briefvoice · Nov 16, 2016

I see we ended up with another nonsense-word Excelsior name.

Derek58 · Nov 16, 2016

OneirosTheWriter said:
Where'd Thirishar come from?

From here.

It was @Random Member who had the idea.

Briefvoice said:
I see we ended up with another nonsense-word Excelsior name.

Not quite.

Glassware · Nov 16, 2016

Briefvoice said:
I see we ended up with another nonsense-word Excelsior name.

Correction: another glorious Andorian name.

HearthBorn · Nov 16, 2016

tryrar said:
Research is gonna take 5 years dude, or at least according to the best way I can build it in the spreadsheet

The main thing keeping me from jumping on a '12 or even '13 Ambassador is hull reliability of 97.6% according to my best build. I don't actually mind the 97% overall reliability, but hull reliability is one of the two things that can accidentally a ship and I'd like that to be over 98%. We need to finish out at least t2 Explorer hulls before I'm comfortable pulling the trigger

That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks, @tryrar ! So T2 Hulls. Do you mean Starship Frames, 2310s Starship Frames? That's two 20s and a 40s, and not even started. Ouch - how necessary is that tech? At least one of the 20 techs is for Escorts.

Edit: under Ship Design Explorers, 2310s Explorer Engineering Package, there's this one that bumps hulls, so if that's the point, it should be done this year:

13 / 20 Explorer Reliability Design I (+1 Hull/Shield Reliability)

Nix · Nov 16, 2016

tryrar said:
Research is gonna take 5 years dude, or at least according to the best way I can build it in the spreadsheet

The main thing keeping me from jumping on a '12 or even '13 Ambassador is hull reliability of 97.6% according to my best build. I don't actually mind the 97% overall reliability, but hull reliability is one of the two things that can accidentally a ship and I'd like that to be over 98%. We need to finish out at least t2 Explorer hulls before I'm comfortable pulling the trigger

I can get 99.15% hull reliability with current techs, 97.98% overall reliability, 300br 170sr cost, tier 3 techs max? Was the sheet nerfed again while I wasn't looking? For a 2313 tech design I expect noticably lower sr cost and 99.8% hull reliability or higher.

tryrar · Nov 16, 2016

Yeah, at the very least I want us to finish 2310s Explorer Engineering with that +1Shield/Hull reliability tech, and if we can swing 2310s starship durability, so much the better

OneirosTheWriter · Nov 16, 2016

Okay, I guess we have two Andorian names for Excelsiors, then.

tryrar · Nov 16, 2016

Nix said:
I can get 99.15% hull reliability with current techs, 97.98% overall reliability, 300br 170sr cost, tier 3 techs max? Was the sheet nerfed again while I wasn't looking? For a 2313 tech design I expect noticably lower sr cost and 99.8% hull reliability or higher.

Let's take this to the SD thread since I want to know what FFs you are using

HearthBorn · Nov 16, 2016

tryrar said:
Yeah, at the very least I want us to finish 2310s Explorer Engineering with that +1Shield/Hull reliability tech, and if we can swing 2310s starship durability, so much the better

How big would the difference be, between finishing the first this year, and the Starship Durability numbers?

Edit: True, this is getting a bit into the nitty gritty.

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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