- Location
- Austin, TX
So, wait for next year, and get the Constellation refit at discount? I'm fine with that.
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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, that's what I'd do.
Basically, I figure this is the last year we need a short-term resource boost. 2311, we ask to start the Constellation refits, and then we can probably get by with several years of not asking for anything directly connected to shipbuilding. Time we can use to build up the budget and the academy and so on.
Basically, I figure this is the last year we need a short-term resource boost. 2311, we ask to start the Constellation refits, and then we can probably get by with several years of not asking for anything directly connected to shipbuilding. Time we can use to build up the budget and the academy and so on.
- Location
- Austin, TX
-40 for 4x Diplo (Q'Loath, Bajoran, Y'Rillian, Dawiar, or something like that)
-50 for counsellors
-30 for MWCO
-20 for Science team
-20 for one time funding?
=160
It's possible we'll get enough in the Q1 CL to pull off the above in the Snakepit. With 137 in the bank, that's only 23 short. Of course, another Anti-Syndicate option will likely appear. If so, I'd prefer to skip the funding, which given the current vote (I think?) we won't need it anyways.
-50 for counsellors
-30 for MWCO
-20 for Science team
-20 for one time funding?
=160
It's possible we'll get enough in the Q1 CL to pull off the above in the Snakepit. With 137 in the bank, that's only 23 short. Of course, another Anti-Syndicate option will likely appear. If so, I'd prefer to skip the funding, which given the current vote (I think?) we won't need it anyways.
- Location
- Panama City
Yeah, that's what I dislike the most about these fund later plans; we're locked into spending 20pp for the snakepit no matter what(unless we like being in debt). Not only is that gamey as hell, forcing options locks out player choice and prevents us from grabbing something we might want just because we had to spend 20pp on resources
- Location
- Central Standard Time
How many Rennies do you think we will end up building?
For the MESS, there will probably be 1 garrison ship and one science ship per sector for a total of about 40 (assumes 10 more sectors). For the border zones, there will probably be at least 1 baseline/combat and one science each for a total of around 8 (3 border zones).
Intelligence will want another one or two.
The home fleets will probably have one two garrison each for a total of 30.
Thus, we are looking at a total of about 80 MESS in 2040.
For the Rennaissiance and Excelsiors, I think we will have about 15-20 each.
For the MESS, there will probably be 1 garrison ship and one science ship per sector for a total of about 40 (assumes 10 more sectors). For the border zones, there will probably be at least 1 baseline/combat and one science each for a total of around 8 (3 border zones).
Intelligence will want another one or two.
The home fleets will probably have one two garrison each for a total of 30.
Thus, we are looking at a total of about 80 MESS in 2040.
For the Rennaissiance and Excelsiors, I think we will have about 15-20 each.
@OneirosTheWriter if we voted for a plan that left a large berth open but did not require a resource infusion, then later voted for a resource infusion, could we also start an Excelsior that was not planned with those resources?
- Location
- somewhere
The suggestion you quoted would have left 60sr for repairs even before the sr dicovery in Q4.
The intended way to use that option is to request the resources in year X, and then use them to order the build of an extra Excelsior in year X+1. As for the councils view, the first resource infusion that we got for the write-in that is responsible for the option existing in the first place specifically stated that it was "to immediately commence a replacement Excelsior", so there is a pretty good argument to be made that anything else is misuse. You could even argue that using it for Excelsiors that don't end up in the EC would be misuse since the write-in was about those.
Repairs requiring more than 20 sr are very atypical, that happens when either the warp core of an Explorer is lost in addition to extensive other damage or it's left a complete wreck. 20 SR is enough for typical extensive repairs to an Excelsior, or the repair of multiple smaller ships. Also in a typical year somewhere between 40 and 100 SR would be discovered in events. A year that is atypical in both the extent of repairs needed and SR earned is one where the council should be rather understanding about ending on a negative before EOY income, so needing to reserve 75 SR rather than just 60 SR seems pretty unnecessary to me.
Also reserving resources for repairs but now not reserving beths for them strikes me as a bit inconsistent.
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aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X]Briefvoice
Can't find where they posted their plan so I'm voting this way.
Very much in agreement with them that more Cruisers now is very important if the various scuffles we're in get hot in the next years. If we have to delay the MWOC or Counselors for one more year to do so, I think it's worth it.
Can't find where they posted their plan so I'm voting this way.
Very much in agreement with them that more Cruisers now is very important if the various scuffles we're in get hot in the next years. If we have to delay the MWOC or Counselors for one more year to do so, I think it's worth it.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Does anyone have a current total on the votes? I assume we're closing it once Oneiros wakes up.
I know it's probably a minor thing, but I got an Excelsior in STO and named it after Captain Ajam, even gave it a registry number that would put it to this time...
She's not as sexy as the Concord Dawn(her Predicessor, a Connie-Refit), but her new weapons and better armor/shields, means that she doesn't need to win beauty contests.
Maryam Ajam by Venom20 on DeviantArt
In honor of Captain Maryam Ajam, may the skies never be taken from you again.
So I don't get slammed for being not on topic;
Name Vote
[X] Maryam Ajam
[X] Briefvoice
She's not as sexy as the Concord Dawn(her Predicessor, a Connie-Refit), but her new weapons and better armor/shields, means that she doesn't need to win beauty contests.
Maryam Ajam by Venom20 on DeviantArt
In honor of Captain Maryam Ajam, may the skies never be taken from you again.
So I don't get slammed for being not on topic;
Name Vote
[X] Maryam Ajam
[X] Briefvoice
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Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
[X] Maryam Ajam
[X] Nix
I agree that the resource infusion isn't supposed to be a yearly thing. This quest may be highly mechanics based, but those are heavily interwined with the narrative too. Playing the system is likely to end badly.
I like honoring our fallen Captain.
[X] Nix
I agree that the resource infusion isn't supposed to be a yearly thing. This quest may be highly mechanics based, but those are heavily interwined with the narrative too. Playing the system is likely to end badly.
I like honoring our fallen Captain.
- Location
- somewhere
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 532 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[X] Maryam Ajam
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: ASSIGN
[X][ASSIGN] Plan Covering all Bases
-[X] USS Salnas [Excelsior]-> Amarkia
-[X] USS Avandar [Excelsior] -> Andor
-[X] USS Winterwind [Centaur-A] -> CBZ
-[X] USS Lightning [Centaur-A] -> Vulcan
-[X] USS Calypso [Miranda, Vulcan] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Gale [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Bull [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Faithful [Miranda, RBZ] -> Sol
No. of Votes: 23
[X][ASSIGN] Plan Core Focus
-[X] USS Salnas [Excelsior]-> Amarkia
-[X] USS Avandar [Excelsior] -> Andor
-[X] USS Winterwind [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Lightning [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Gale [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Bull [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
No. of Votes: 7
[X][ASSIGN] 1 Excelsior and 2 Centaur-As, Cardassian Border Zone
No. of Votes: 1
[X][ASSIGN] 1 Excelsior, Romulan Neutral Zone
No. of Votes: 1
[X][ASSIGN] 2 Centaur-As, Klingon Border Zone
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: BUILD
[X][BUILD] Plan Mixture
-[X] Excelsior-class @ San Francisco Fleet Yards
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40 Eridani A Berth 1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40 Eridani A Berth 2
-[X] Refit Centaur @ Ana Font in Q2
-[X] Oberth @ Utopia Planitia Berth 2 in Q2
No. of Votes: 24
[X][BUILD] Plan Forge Ahead
-[X] 1 Excelsior-class explorer @ San Francisco Fleet Yards
-[X] 2 Constitution-B-class cruisers @ 40 Eridani A Shipyards, in the one-megaton berths
-[X] 1 Constitution-B-class cruiser @ Ana Font Shipyard, in the one-megaton berth, starting in Q2.
-[X] 1 Constitution-B-class cruiser @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, in the second one-megaton berth, starting in Q2.
-[X] Refit to remaining Centaur @ 40 Eridani A Shipyards, in three-megaton berth B,
No. of Votes: 8
[X][BUILD] 1 Excelsior, Utopia Planitia
No. of Votes: 1
[X][BUILD] 1 Excelsior, Ana Font
No. of Votes: 1
[X][BUILD] 2 Constitution-B, 40 Eridani A
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: NAME
[X][NAME] Thirishar
No. of Votes: 13
[X][NAME] USS Victory
No. of Votes: 2
[X][NAME] Kirk
No. of Votes: 2
[X][NAME] Repulse
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] Cardassia Prime
No. of Votes: 1
[x] [Name] Niven
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] USS Paris
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] USS Yamamoto
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] Diversity
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 33
##### NetTally 1.7.4
[X] Maryam Ajam
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: ASSIGN
[X][ASSIGN] Plan Covering all Bases
-[X] USS Salnas [Excelsior]-> Amarkia
-[X] USS Avandar [Excelsior] -> Andor
-[X] USS Winterwind [Centaur-A] -> CBZ
-[X] USS Lightning [Centaur-A] -> Vulcan
-[X] USS Calypso [Miranda, Vulcan] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Gale [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Bull [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Faithful [Miranda, RBZ] -> Sol
No. of Votes: 23
[X][ASSIGN] Plan Core Focus
-[X] USS Salnas [Excelsior]-> Amarkia
-[X] USS Avandar [Excelsior] -> Andor
-[X] USS Winterwind [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Lightning [Centaur-A] -> Sol
-[X] USS Gale [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
-[X] USS Bull [Centaur-A] -> Tellar
No. of Votes: 7
[X][ASSIGN] 1 Excelsior and 2 Centaur-As, Cardassian Border Zone
No. of Votes: 1
[X][ASSIGN] 1 Excelsior, Romulan Neutral Zone
No. of Votes: 1
[X][ASSIGN] 2 Centaur-As, Klingon Border Zone
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: BUILD
[X][BUILD] Plan Mixture
-[X] Excelsior-class @ San Francisco Fleet Yards
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40 Eridani A Berth 1
-[X] Constitution-B @ 40 Eridani A Berth 2
-[X] Refit Centaur @ Ana Font in Q2
-[X] Oberth @ Utopia Planitia Berth 2 in Q2
No. of Votes: 24
[X][BUILD] Plan Forge Ahead
-[X] 1 Excelsior-class explorer @ San Francisco Fleet Yards
-[X] 2 Constitution-B-class cruisers @ 40 Eridani A Shipyards, in the one-megaton berths
-[X] 1 Constitution-B-class cruiser @ Ana Font Shipyard, in the one-megaton berth, starting in Q2.
-[X] 1 Constitution-B-class cruiser @ Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards, in the second one-megaton berth, starting in Q2.
-[X] Refit to remaining Centaur @ 40 Eridani A Shipyards, in three-megaton berth B,
No. of Votes: 8
[X][BUILD] 1 Excelsior, Utopia Planitia
No. of Votes: 1
[X][BUILD] 1 Excelsior, Ana Font
No. of Votes: 1
[X][BUILD] 2 Constitution-B, 40 Eridani A
No. of Votes: 1
——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: NAME
[X][NAME] Thirishar
No. of Votes: 13
[X][NAME] USS Victory
No. of Votes: 2
[X][NAME] Kirk
No. of Votes: 2
[X][NAME] Repulse
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] Cardassia Prime
No. of Votes: 1
[x] [Name] Niven
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] USS Paris
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] USS Yamamoto
No. of Votes: 1
[X][NAME] Diversity
No. of Votes: 1
Total No. of Voters: 33
You mean like how we voted for the Orion Syndicate options that cost us 10pp per year? Or how Ka'Sharren costs us 5pp per year?
I'm not really seeing the difference. If everyone votes with their eyes open for something that reduces our available supply of pp, then that's what was voted for.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Has Oneiros given us any indication in, oh, the past month of real time that we should be viewing resource infusions this way? It seems to me like he just (sensibly) created a mechanic that enables us to request a one-time budget boost to build ships in general, not just Excelsiors specifically.
We can always cancel builds if it turns out to be impossible to get the boost- it is utterly trivial to put that into the plan. If nothing else by having the extra two ConnieBees start in 2310Q3 instead of Q2.
[Though since resources are fungible and we're laying down an Excelsior this turn, it's not like we couldn't tell the council "we really need to build cruisers and our resources are stretched tight doing that, in order to get an Excelsior as well during this year, we need the extra funds." There isn't actually anything in the rules that says we absolutely have to lay down an Excelsior every year in order to have a good fleet]
Because we don't have to plan ahead for berthing for repairs; we can bump the ship under construction, as we did during the biophage crisis. We don't get in trouble for that. Whereas we definitely do have to plan ahead for the resources, given that there are apparently political problems associated with dipping into negative numbers.
And even then, if I were only worried about having to patch up one ship, I'd be comfortable with a much narrower SR margin. But a realistic bad-case scenario for next year looks something like "Enterprise seriously damaged by Cardassians with a vendetta and a combat cloak, Sydraxians rough up a couple of our ships in a frontier battle, and Yukikaze loses her starboard nacelle in the process of blowing up like six pirate ships and freeing a jillion slaves." All those things are fairly likely to be issues, even if it's far from certain any one of them will be a problem.
How is it playing the system to spend two years in a row building lots of ships? We knew, years in advance, that we'd need to lay out this kind of resource investment to get major cruiser production rolling quickly. We knew, years in advance, that we'd want this scale of cruiser production to modernize Starfleet and reduce our reliance on underpowered ships. The Council knew, years in advance, that we were starting this program and pushing it in a serious way.
I don't see this as being in any way 'playing the system.'
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I begrudgingly voted for ConnieBees with the expectation they were a stopgap measure designed to let us last the decade until the Renaissance got online. In my view, we should build the absolute minimum we can get by on, and save our big buildup for 2314-15 when we can build the ships we want to keep around. Saying our big shipbuilding operations will be over come 2311 is idiotic in my opinion.
- Location
- Austin, TX
So where do you see us, cruiser-wise, in ten years or so? 6-8 ConnieBs, similar Renaissance, and our seven, perhaps refitted, Constellations?
Can we at least agree to retire the Constellations before the ConnieBees?
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That depends on whether Combat Cap or Constellation age problems or Connie-B age problems is causing the retirement.
Besides, I think Mirandas are ahead on the chopping block.
- Location
- somewhere
You mean other than the option explicitly mentioning Excelsiors and not just 230 br 150sr? No, he almost never bothers spelling out things that are this obvious.
Obviously, that's the only reason I ever even so much considered reluctantly going along with it rather than fighting it tooth and nail in previous years. But people can look at what we are doing otherwise and tell that if resource request were not a thing we'd probably still build 1 Excelsior per year. That's is what I referred to when I was talking about them calling our bluff earlier. The more often and the more blatantly we are doing it the less believable we are.
We don't know that it doesn't have a political cost if it keeps happening in rapid succession, and bumping builds reduces the benefit of starting the extra builds that need to be bumped in the first place so the value that offers needs to be discounted correspondingly.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I'd be fine with five or six ConnieB's. I'm voting for Nix's plan which would give us seven only because it's the cheapest that has a chance of winning.
Rennaissances I'd have to look at the crew numbers to say, but eight seems reasonable as a start. That plus a few Oberths if we can spare the techs.
If crew is the limiting factor I'd rather scrap the Constellations and recycle the crews. If berths are the limiting factor I'd rather spend the pp on more berths and build a few Oberths to handle Science responses. If resources are the limiting factor than I'd rather spend the pp on mines or budget increases and scrap the Constellations for more resources. Basically, the only reason I'd be in favor of the Constellation refit is if it boosted member world fleets to the point it reduced our garrison requirements by a fair bit. It's just a mediocre upgrade onto an already lackluster ship.
- Location
- Austin, TX
If we go purely by age, rather than poor stats, unfortunately the USS Cheron is our oldest active ship type, similar in age to the Soyuz that started dying on us.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
And furthermore, what is it about the Constitution-Bs that makes them undesirable to keep around? Is it requiring one more unit of techs and one less of enlisted? Having one less point of shields and hull? One less point of science? We're going to be keeping around a lot of ships that are inferior to the Constitution-B in these categories, and so will a lot of our neighbors, for quite some time to come.
Apparently not... because building a lot of Constitution-Bs is undesirable and not worth spending political will on.
See, I view the ConnieBees as ships we actively want in our fleet, not as good as a Renaissance-class but still very good compared to all the sub-megaton, turn-of-the-century ships they're supplementing. These are ships I see no reason NOT to keep around until the TNG era, unless they start to fall apart or we need to get rid of them because of problems with crews or combat caps.
I always voted for them with that in mind. Indeed, that is why I'm willing to keep spending political will to get more of them- because I see them as valued contributions to the fleet. As Nix pointed out a page or two ago, having ships increases our resources, because ships respond to events and bring us income.
But I can understand why the majority would be voting against building any more Constitution-Bs than the minimum, if they are seen as an undesirable stopgap measure that will just sort of... vanish... in 2320 or so.
Recycle the crews into what? Knitting circles? You just told us you oppose building more ships...
You also oppose building more ships, which makes building more berths useless.
We'll get negligible resources from scrapping Constellations, mostly bulk resources we don't need, and we're already spending political points on mines as fast as we can (except for bulk resource mines we don't need).
Nix already made the argument that the upgrades are likely to pay for themselves, they're roughly as good a way to boost overall Defense as buying more starbases, and I pointed out several advantages that Constellation-As have which shipyards don't.
Honestly, what more do you want? It sounds more like you're trying to find a universal justification for "I want less ships and dislike all our existing ships" than like you're suggesting a viable strategy here.
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I think the new Excelsior should have an Andorian name, We already have two Vulcan named ships, a bunch with neutral/human names and one for each of the other full members. The Caitians are new but perhaps since they aren't quite full members yet, they should wait for the next ship.
So going around to add a second ship for our original Andorian and Tellarite members seems like a fair thing to do. Digging around in memory beta has yielded a pretty good sounding name, though with no back story for it. So we get to make one up.
I suggest that Thanatok Sa'Wehlyth was the first Andorian to make an Interstellar Warp jump to the nearby Nibia system. The attempt was made in a warp research sled mated to a small transorbital shuttle. Thanatok was the only occupant, and undertook the journey as part of a dispute with colleagues in the warp flight development program who disbelieved that their current designs would be capable of reaching that distance. The journey was successful, crossing the distance at a record speed of Warp 2.2, however a slight miscalculation meant that there was insufficient power to make a return jump. Fortunately due to a conservatively planned over abundance of life support, Thanatok was able to modify his craft to harvest fuel from the upper atmosphere of the Nibia III gas giant. During the twenty-nine hours this work took, Thanatok held the distinction of being the the most isolated Andorian in their species' history, with no other living beings within six light years of him.
Upon return to Andor, and with meticulously logged sensor readings as proof of his success, Thanatok was celebrated as a hero on his homeworld, and went on to take part in the Andorian Empire's earliest interstellar exploration missions.
[X][NAME] Thanatok
[X][BUILD] Base Plan Forge Ahead
[X][ASSIGN] Base Plan Covering all Bases
So going around to add a second ship for our original Andorian and Tellarite members seems like a fair thing to do. Digging around in memory beta has yielded a pretty good sounding name, though with no back story for it. So we get to make one up.
I suggest that Thanatok Sa'Wehlyth was the first Andorian to make an Interstellar Warp jump to the nearby Nibia system. The attempt was made in a warp research sled mated to a small transorbital shuttle. Thanatok was the only occupant, and undertook the journey as part of a dispute with colleagues in the warp flight development program who disbelieved that their current designs would be capable of reaching that distance. The journey was successful, crossing the distance at a record speed of Warp 2.2, however a slight miscalculation meant that there was insufficient power to make a return jump. Fortunately due to a conservatively planned over abundance of life support, Thanatok was able to modify his craft to harvest fuel from the upper atmosphere of the Nibia III gas giant. During the twenty-nine hours this work took, Thanatok held the distinction of being the the most isolated Andorian in their species' history, with no other living beings within six light years of him.
Upon return to Andor, and with meticulously logged sensor readings as proof of his success, Thanatok was celebrated as a hero on his homeworld, and went on to take part in the Andorian Empire's earliest interstellar exploration missions.
[X][NAME] Thanatok
[X][BUILD] Base Plan Forge Ahead
[X][ASSIGN] Base Plan Covering all Bases
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I almost wish you'd suggested that as the first Tellarite warp flight, and had the pioneering Tellarite astronaut set the record for "longest time spent without an argument." 
I almost wish you'd suggested that as the first Tellarite warp flight, and had the pioneering Tellarite astronaut set the record for "longest time spent without an argument."
Except that you just know that such a Tellarite would be having a constant argument with himself and the absent designers of the craft as he engaged in a furious session of jury rigging.