I wish we could name more Excelsiors after TOS ships. Sure many of them are originally human in origin, but IMO they would have transcended that and become Federation Starfleet names. The new ship isn't named after the old human ship/place/name. It's named after its Starfleet predecessor.
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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Panama City
Yeah, I'm pretty sure 2310s EE would get reliability for hull up to around 98%, which while a bit iffy is acceptable for me. 2310s SSD would be if we were willing to wait somewhat longer for me
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not saying you shouldn't want the stats. I'm saying that if you want that +1 or +2 on a single ship, and do not correspondingly want a whole cruiser, then that is inconsistent.
Because if you think the difference between having a ship and having a better ship is important (I agree)... how about the difference between having a ship and having no ship?
Well I've been hoping we can recycle those names on Constitution-Bs and have them rotate forward on future Ambassadors/Galaxies. But I just don't know anymore.
- Location
- Austin, TX
I'm looking forward to seeing if there's any differences between your results; while next year would be awesome, best to be sure of what the actual answer is.
- Location
- Austin, TX
I don't exactly disagree, but that assumes that we are short of ships for possible events. I haven't seen proof of that concern. Also, if our ships flew around in packs, or at least we used escorts with larger ships, and we chose a different Fleet Design Doctrine, it would work too. But, they (currently) don't, so bigger is better, except in those once in a decade or so fleet battles, or we get Uhura her old job back.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
If Nix's Plan wins (as seems likely at this point), let's consider the out-years. Suppose we do as he suggests and ask for a Constellation refit in 2311. The refits take 6 turns, so if we ask for them in Q2 2311 then they are available in Q4 2312. Check this out:
2310 Build - As per Nix's plan
2311 Build - Start 2 Excelsiors and 1 Constitution-B. (This will not require asking for extra resources.)
2312 Build - Start 2 Excelsiors and 1 Constitution-B*. (This might or might not require asking for an Excelsior's worth of resources; we are teetering right on the edge in my projections... but I presume not even Nix would object in a year where we're actually doing it to build two Excelsiors!)
2313 Build - Start 2 Excelsiors and all 7 Constellation refits
2314 Build - Start 1 Excelsior and 5 Renaissances (Will require asking for an Excelsior's worth of resources.)
*This is two years before the Renaissance prototype completes, as late as I would ever consider starting a Connie-B.
That's two Excelsiors started per year 3 years in a row. You like? It results in nine Connie-Bs total, a decent number.
image posting
Projecting that far without adjusting expected income (like budget increase, increase SR from tech, more 300+ level affiliates) is pretty conservative. I'm almost sure we could fit in another Renaissance by then.
Alternatively, if we get both Miranda and Constellation refit programs one after the other to fill up berths, skip the 2312 Connie-B, and stay with 5 Renaissances, we should save enough resources that we don't need to request Excelsior resources again.
- Location
- Panama City
Actually, @SuperSonicSound posted a take that has >99% hull reliability, and I managed to improve the design a little while keeping >99% hull reliability. Best of all, it can be researched in only 3 years!
So we actually really CAN start the ambassador next year, but I do want to wait until we are at least building the first batch of Rennies since the year we start the Ambassador we are unlikely to build anything else do to the sheer cost of the bloody thing
So we actually really CAN start the ambassador next year, but I do want to wait until we are at least building the first batch of Rennies since the year we start the Ambassador we are unlikely to build anything else do to the sheer cost of the bloody thing
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Well.. Ideally I'd like us to hold off on that so we can jam some SR saving fudges in there. IIRC we have a tech or two finishing in the next year that will allow for us to shave 10-20 SR off the cost of the design with no loss in reliability. Which would be a pretty great thing to do because tbh If we're going to want to build a number of these things we're not going to want to pay 190 SR per unit.
The listed design is 240 so you're doing good, but I do agree on shaving off SR cost regardless.
Double-checking we got the extra political will income from Sulu and Viraan zh'Dohlen this year.
2308 political will income was +61. This year's is +67. We lost T'Lorel (-2) and we're paying for the anti-Syndicate actions (-10). Sulu gives us +8, (4 5YM) and Viraan +10. Okay yeah, that looks right to me.
So expect maybe ~15pp from Captain's Logs. About 152pp.
Mining Colony - 8 pp (7.2 pp)
4 Diplomatic Pushes - 40pp
Budget Increase Request - 25 pp
Add a Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops, 30pp (allow cooperation with member worlds on ship-building priorities as part of Shipyard Ops turn phase)
Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
That's 152.2 pp. If we get lucky on our pp gain in Q1, we might be able to grab a whole bunch of things that we kept putting off this turn.
It would be if I wasn't adjusting for expected income, which I am. That assumes some more SR mining colonies and the Rigellians join the Federation.
- Location
- Austin, TX
About SR, we are due to get some decent bumps soon, with a number of affiliates over 200 approaching 300, a number in the high 300s/low 400s heading towards membership, and the Caitain about to jump to full membership in the next few quarters. All resources, including pp, should be going up by a fair amount in the next five years.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
We don't even necessarily get Captains' Logs for events we miss out on, and having a second Defense 5 ship around to respond to events greatly improves the likelihood of the event being responded to in a favorable way, as well as providing insurance in case of emergency.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
I'd like to start the Ambassador when we have the good techs, but early enough to begin mass production in 2325. Given that research will likely take 3-4 years, I would say that we should start the Ambassador in 2316 or 2318, if we use Chen's ability.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
We might get increasingly outmatched by other powers though.
- Location
- Australia
Huh. I missed that. Somehow a USS Faithful made it back into the list. The Faithful was one of the ships destroyed in the opening Battle of Kadesh. I'll need to figure out a new name for it.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
...so you want to wait something like ten years to even start on it when the Excelsior is all ready beginning to be outmatched.
Nash and the Enterprise got incredibly lucky to do so well in beating that Cardassian ambush when the odds were pretty against them.
The Excelsior is 23 years old, that's old enough to move onto the next Explorer class IMO.
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- Location
- USA
We would want to wait until next years snakepit at least as we are getting a tech that gives discounts this year.
21 / 25 Big is Beautiful (Reduce Explorer and Cruiser project pp request costs by 25%), that is under way of the giant so it finishes this year.
Beyond that not sure what techs we will need to be ready for it, hopefully the design bureau can let us know there
21 / 25 Big is Beautiful (Reduce Explorer and Cruiser project pp request costs by 25%), that is under way of the giant so it finishes this year.
Beyond that not sure what techs we will need to be ready for it, hopefully the design bureau can let us know there
- Location
- Panama City
That is not what I meant and you know it. I was making a point that we don't need to rush for an arbitrary deadline just because it's canon. If you've been following I've been saying we should do it in the next couple years
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Hopefully, we'll also get a pp bonus for the 5 concurrent FYM too. Assuming nothing bad happens in Q1 again.
But you're not considering any of Risa, Gaeni, or Orion becoming 300+ level affiliates, the increase in event SR due to more FYMs and the SR/event tech increase, or budget increases.
Not getting any of those is possible, but it's also very pessimistic.
Altogether, I'm seeing a trade-off of getting another refit project vs 1 Connie-B (or Centaur-A/Oberth).
Getting an Excelsior cost infusion in 2314 would allow us to build another Renaissance and more SR reserve, but we're also going to have crewing problems with 5 Renaissance around then, and having to mothball a ship or two just to crew an effectively pp-bought Renaissance isn't attractive to me.
I kinda agree with tryrar's sentiment though. We shouldn't adhere to canon dates because of vague notions of future competitiveness at around those times. We should aim to start projects based off current and more near-term projections of competitiveness.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Nix posted his current research notes. Since
Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
You failed badly at getting that point across then, and came off like you were serious about it instead.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Sure I think we should start the Ambassador project sometime before 2314, but not because of any notion of making the canon date. We want the Ambassador because we are seeing our FYMs encountering problems that their current vaunted stats aren't enough for, especially for their cost, and will get worse over time. (Though I'm hoping an Excelsior-A refit with 3 or 4 stat increments will help with that in the meantime.)
Er, what list? I'm clearly missing something here.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The change in five years is unlikely to be significant. The change in ten years could be; the change in fifteen be.
Getting Ambassadors out in 2320 as opposed to 2330 is significant. 2320 as opposed to 2325... not so significant.
That was at two-on-one odds; it is doubtful that an Ambassador would have survived the ambush, because the Cardassians would still have a major advantage in combined combat power. Maybe, maybe an Ambassador with Nash at the helm could have done it, but that's more down to the +3 bonus granted by a veteran crew with Nash than it is to the +1 or +2 from being an Ambassador.
We're never going to be able to make our explorers so tough that a determined opponent with capital ships of their own and broadly competitive technology can't ambush them by throwing superior tonnage at our isolated individual unit. We can try, but there are limits.
And even if the ambush wouldn't work on the Enterprise-C, it'd still work on a less generally amazing Ambassador-class explorer on a five year mission.