[X][INTEL] Decline the Resignation (-25pp)
[X][REPAIR] Cancel the planned Constitution-B Build in Utopia Planitia Berth-C (3mt berth) and repair the Courageous there.
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Mix and Match to Fix and Dispatch

I'm not firing our intelligence officer over a botched roll, and I prefer this option over the Keep Our Admiral plan.
 
[X][INTEL] Decline the Resignation (-25pp)

[X][REPAIR] Cancel the planned Constitution-B Build in Utopia Planitia Berth-C (3mt berth) and repair the Courageous there.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Mix and Match to Fix and Dispatch

This plan is fine by me, if it helps unite support.
 
I've come around to giving the Gaeni a chance to look at the Excelsior too. It doesn't make sense to me that we're gaining pp from this, but I won't complain, and it does allow construction of a ConnieBee half a year earlier. I mean, what's the worse that can happen? *cough*

PP is weird. I would almost expect +Gaeni relations to be the reward, no? I guess the Gaeni have their advocates in the Council?
 
The intersting thing about an Excelsior is that it is not the cutting edge of our technology, but it is a great example of our engineering and style of design.

Our ships are designed to be able to both support and be supported by other races. We design for modularity and to be able to retrofit in new and alien technologies, and literally rebuild key systems on the fly (how many different particles have Federation ships managed to get their navigational deflectors to emit by now?). Our designs, especially our larger ships are designed to protect our crew, even if it complicates other things. The seperate crew and engineering section saves lives.

Our ship is our mission statement, and it's engineering is a form of communication.

It says, more than words (but less than empathic transmissions) that we live the aspirations we claim.
 
Hmm. And it is three separate votes, just that certain combinations are not compatable. Okay, slight change to my vote.

[X][INTEL] Decline the Resignation (-25pp)
[X][REPAIR] Gaeni Manufacturing Coop (+5pp, Gaeni closely study the Excelsior design)
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Mix and Match to Fix and Dispatch
 
@HearthBorn, your table of vote comparisons... I can't find where it says which plan is which.

Also, I am really, really unsure that declining the resignation is a good idea. As I pointed out last night, declining the resignation means that we consider keeping Rear Admiral zh'Rhashaan to be as important as getting a starbase and a mining colony. Or an upgrade program for an obsolete set of ships, or coordinating our anti-Syndicate operations.

All of those are areas where we'd have to expend roughly thirty political will to get our goal.

If this is about pragmatism, pragmatically it is very unlikely that zh'Rhashaan will be so much better than her potential replacements that it's worth sacrificing 30pp to keep her.

If it's about principles, "command takes responsibility" is an important principle. It is very much normal for senior commanding officers whose organization has just made a major mistake to resign. Otherwise there is virtually no accountability at all for when these organizations make mistakes.

...

Remember what someone else pointed out about looking at this issue from the point of view of Federation politicians. Starfleet Intelligence just gambled with the lives of several hundred Federation spacers and one of our finest starships, on the basis of inadequate information. They lost. If the head of Starfleet Intelligence gets away with only a slap on the wrist from the admiral-in-chief...

Where is the accountability? What is to discourage future admiralties from doing much the same, on a larger scale and more often, with greater risk of provoking a major war?

From the point of view of someone watching the Federation evolve from outside, that kind of decision is exactly how you get the rise of something like Section 31. This is how you get an unaccountable, irresponsible, reckless, violent rogue agency that "does what it has to" in order to do what it thinks protects the Federation. Without oversight, or at least without oversight that means anything, because the people who are really in charge can cause major disasters without personal consequence.

It's not even "hard men making hard decisions," because the 'hard decisions' in question are not hard, because the decision-makers aren't being held accountable if things go wrong!

...

So basically, if we think the highest principle of Starfleet command structure is "my admirals, whether they're right or wrong," then by all means decline the resignation. But then the Council is right to lose some faith in us, because we're supposed to think the highest principle is "take responsibility for your actions and accept civilian control of the military."

Yes, that was one of the main reasons I said that such a reform would be more likely after unification.
Possibly, but there's a relatively narrow timeframe between the point at which planetary unification of Earth makes a standardized spelling of International English possible, and the point at which the advances in translator technology make it unnecessary. The relevant time window would be, oh... 2075 to 2125, roughly, because by the time of Enterprise universal translation appeared to be very much in effect.

Ooh nice drawings (I'll excuse the Excelsior). It consistently amazes me that the Constitution is so small, shorter than the Centaur even it weights 25% more, yet packs such an amazing punch. The Renaissance also isn't going to be much longer than the Centaur and still weighs the same as a Constitution.
Three-dimensional objects can be funny like that. For instance, decreasing the length of a ship by 10%, BUT increasing the width and thickness of the components (height and depth) by 30%, will increase total volume by 0.9*1.3*1.3 = 1.52... In other words, a 50% increase.

Another issue is the density of internal machinery spaces. If the Centaur, for example, contains large amount of empty space for hangar or cargo bays (quite possible in the Federation), that would explain it being 'puffy' and less powerful than it might be. We know that afflicted the Galaxy-class design, for instance.

Every single thing except the Renaissance, the Lone Ranger techs and Cardassian research. A lot of changes because the previous project finished, some to move teams to a new higher priority, some to accommodate other teams being moved. Would you prefer less efficient research, e. g. by not switching the two warp tech teams to take advantage of a chance to finish a tech, just so it's easier to audit? Or maybe list the previously researched project along with the new? Highlighting the majority of teams wouldn't make much sense.
[Closes eyes]

This is exactly what I was afraid would happen regarding our research turns...

As I've said, I do not want a situation where the research decisions are so inaccessible and complex that only a small minority of the people following and participating in the quest can participate meaningfully. If we're going to do that, we might as well just drop the whole "allocate research teams" system entirely because it's become a useless gameplay feature.
 
I don't see how going down the list of technologies and deciding "which tech do I think is important and who do so want to assign to it" is so onerous

The important thing isn't maximum efficiency, the important thing is what you think is important. Short range sensors or long range? Warp core safety or warp propulsion? Shipboard computing or installation computing? That's the question that makes interesting decisions.

For instance, I don't think warp core safety is such a high priority and will probably do a plan for propulsion instead.
 
Remember what someone else pointed out about looking at this issue from the point of view of Federation politicians. Starfleet Intelligence just gambled with the lives of several hundred Federation spacers and one of our finest starships, on the basis of inadequate information. They lost. If the head of Starfleet Intelligence gets away with only a slap on the wrist from the admiral-in-chief...

Where is the accountability? What is to discourage future admiralties from doing much the same, on a larger scale and more often, with greater risk of provoking a major war?

From the point of view of someone watching the Federation evolve from outside, that kind of decision is exactly how you get the rise of something like Section 31. This is how you get an unaccountable, irresponsible, reckless, violent rogue agency that "does what it has to" in order to do what it thinks protects the Federation. Without oversight, or at least without oversight that means anything, because the people who are really in charge can cause major disasters without personal consequence.

It's not even "hard men making hard decisions," because the 'hard decisions' in question are not hard, because the decision-makers aren't being held accountable if things go wrong!

...

So basically, if we think the highest principle of Starfleet command structure is "my admirals, whether they're right or wrong," then by all means decline the resignation. But then the Council is right to lose some faith in us, because we're supposed to think the highest principle is "take responsibility for your actions and accept civilian control of the military."
I don't think it's a step in that direction. Every single time we send our Explorers on missions we risk them. Often with less information than Maryam had available. At least she knew she was going into hostile territory.

Do you want a change in personal, or worse policy, everytime one of our ships gets destroyed by enemy actions or random chance?

Our Head of Int will take responsibility, by doing her damn best to get the very important mission we lost a ship on done. By getting all info the Syndicate has on the technolgy they were selling our enemies. If she fails, if this was not a fluke, but genuine incompetence, then we will take consequences from that. But until that point I believe she was doing her damn best and will grow better in learning from this loss.

I am not against firing (or letting resign) Admirals, just against that happening with the very first failure. Fucking Darth Vader is more forgiving than that.
 
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If we are going forward with the Syndicate plan, I have to wonder if it is a good idea to replace our Intel head, since the incoming one will take time to adjust and it's probably going to be mostly in Intel's wheelhouse to find the Syndicate so we can 'destroy' them.

OTOH it's basically untenable from a PP point of view to do both so.
 
From the point of view of someone watching the Federation evolve from outside, that kind of decision is exactly how you get the rise of something like Section 31. This is how you get an unaccountable, irresponsible, reckless, violent rogue agency that "does what it has to" in order to do what it thinks protects the Federation. Without oversight, or at least without oversight that means anything, because the people who are really in charge can cause major disasters without personal consequence.

Oversight, no problem. I can accept a board of inquiry. But a diplomatic 'get me their head' solution doesn't sound like Federation or Starfleet principles either. @OneirosTheWriter , any chance we can request one?
 
I don't see how going down the list of technologies and deciding "which tech do I think is important and who do so want to assign to it" is so onerous

The important thing isn't maximum efficiency, the important thing is what you think is important. Short range sensors or long range? Warp core safety or warp propulsion? Shipboard computing or installation computing? That's the question that makes interesting decisions.

For instance, I don't think warp core safety is such a high priority and will probably do a plan for propulsion instead.
The problem is that if we play musical chairs with half our tech teams every turn, AND given the very subtle and obscure mechanical effects of many of the techs, it becomes difficult if not impossible to meaningfully vet the plans and determine whether they really accomplish what they say they do.

I'm not saying the situation is intolerable, but I think this is a very real concern. Last research turn I called this process "toxic," and I stand by that evaluation unless the situation improves.

If we are going forward with the Syndicate plan, I have to wonder if it is a good idea to replace our Intel head, since the incoming one will take time to adjust and it's probably going to be mostly in Intel's wheelhouse to find the Syndicate so we can 'destroy' them.

OTOH it's basically untenable from a PP point of view to do both so.
The catch is that zh'Rhashaan is a signals intelligence specialist. Against the Cardassians that is probably an advantage, because we're still trying to learn basic information about them like "where are their planets." Signals intelligence is a really good way to get a basic overview of the basic facts before you know enough about a society to infiltrate it.

But against the Syndicate, signals intelligence is likely to be inadequate. They've been concealing their activities from technologically sophisticated powers for a long time, they operate in the shadows, and much of their most important business can be transacted face to face or in anonymous neutral locations. They can do business with the Cardassians without leaving trails we can detect, they can obtain all sorts of weapons and resources without leaving trails we can detect.

So even stipulating that we're planning a campaign against the Syndicate, I'm not sure zh'Rhashaan is really the best choice to run it.

Continuity on the projects Intel has been working on is extremely important, enough that I do believe it's worth 30pp or even more to keep her.
Then we appoint someone else from inside Starfleet Intelligence who we trust to carry on the work.

What would we do if she'd gotten run over by a bus? She's not irreplaceable, the work she's coordinating will continue without her. Maybe it will be done slightly less effectively. Then again, maybe we get someone with really great bonuses that bails us out of this jam. We can't predict.

What we can predict is that trying to defend her after her secret operation got one of our ships wrecked and hundreds of our people killed has a huge opportunity cost, and she herself takes for granted that we cannot afford to pay that opportunity cost. There's a reason she submitted her resignation- and that reason is that in her genuine opinion, it is in the interests of the service for her to step down.
 
What we can predict is that trying to defend her after her secret operation got one of our ships wrecked and hundreds of our people killed has a huge opportunity cost, and she herself takes for granted that we cannot afford to pay that opportunity cost. There's a reason she submitted her resignation- and that reason is that in her genuine opinion, it is in the interests of the service for her to step down.

And that is perhaps the best reason I can see for accepting her resignation. Okay, I'll review the plans again, and will recast my vote soon.
 
[X][INTEL] Accept the Resignation (+5pp)
[X][REPAIR] Gaeni Manufacturing Coop (+5pp, Gaeni closely study the Excelsior design)
[X][COUNCIL] Plan Rid Ourselves of the Syndicate
 
[X][INTEL] Accept the Resignation (+5pp)
[X][REPAIR] Cancel the planned Constitution-B Build in Utopia Planitia Berth-C (3mt berth) and repair the Courageous there.

Dont have time to look at the plans, but i do want these
 
Can I just say that I haven't been impressed with our intelligence service in general for several years now? While I'm sure this isn't entirely zh'Rhashaan's fault, I'd like to see if things go better with someone else in charge.
 
I don't see how going down the list of technologies and deciding "which tech do I think is important and who do so want to assign to it" is so onerous

The important thing isn't maximum efficiency, the important thing is what you think is important. Short range sensors or long range? Warp core safety or warp propulsion? Shipboard computing or installation computing? That's the question that makes interesting decisions.

For instance, I don't think warp core safety is such a high priority and will probably do a plan for propulsion instead.

If Warp Core safety make it so it not so hard to maintain 100% Warp core reliability in the spreadsheet designer I'm all for it being close to the top. Being able to drop more Warp Core weight makes plans so much easier too.
 
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I think we need more Comms teams on intel-side tech. Getting started on weapons tech is probably more important right now (hence freeing up that team) but I think we ought to grab a second comms team next turn and start a crash run down to [T5] 300kt Intel Module.
 
I just had a horrible vision of how things might go in the long term.

1. Cardassians get the cloak, and are thus able to contact distant powers without us knowing.

2. Due to us broing it up with the Romulans in the wake of the Beast incident, we're not able to side against them when the Klingon/Romulan war happens.

3. Klingon-Cardassian alliance. I'm sure those two will be a great influence on each other.

And its all thanks to the fucking green space babe mafia...
 
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