I would rather not budget for a resource infusion. We're going to have a LOT less PP this time and I'd like to have PP for things like a CBZ or Betazed starbase, a budget increase, or a refit while still doing diplo pushes. Gonna wait to push for a Starbase Construction Tech Team till I see how Onieros redoes that tree - I'm pretty sure things like "Outposts can repair cruisers from any damage level" or "Starbases can repair 2 cruiser or smaller ships at a time from any damage level" aren't staying at T1.
 
I would rather not budget for a resource infusion. We're going to have a LOT less PP this time and I'd like to have PP for things like a CBZ or Betazed starbase, a budget increase, or a refit while still doing diplo pushes. Gonna wait to push for a Starbase Construction Tech Team till I see how Onieros redoes that tree - I'm pretty sure things like "Outposts can repair cruisers from any damage level" or "Starbases can repair 2 cruiser or smaller ships at a time from any damage level" aren't staying at T1.

We also have 3 affiliates moving to advanced, so that will take care of a smidge of the shortfall. Let's also see what the Cardassian Fleet report comes in at. Hopefully for the next Steering Committe, we get a peek at their Shipyards, to see if they are also building significantly more ships or not.
 
Okay, revised totals:

BR: 230 (Excelsior) + 4*100 + 1.5 * 100 = 780, or that plus 2*100, totalling 930.
SR: 150 (Excelsior) + 4* 40 + 1.5 * 80 = 470, or that plus 2*80, totalling 630.

We currently have 515 br (front page, unless dated), with a revenue of 450br, totalling 965 br - no problem.
For SR, we currently have 150 sr (from @Nix ), with a revenue of 305sr, totalling 455 - so 15 shy. Possible to collect, certainly. With the stated Excelsior pp request, that makes 605 - short of maxing six by 25. As noted before, seven would be 710 sr.

Start year with 140sr (by my count). Add 305sr for income = 445sr.
Q1 - Build 1 Excelsior. 445 - 150 = 295
Q2 Build first 3 Constitution-Bs. 295 - 120 = 175sr
Q2 Excelsior worth of resources. 175 + 150 = 325sr.
Q3: ---
Q4 Build 2 more Constitution B. (40 + 160 =200). 325 - 200 = 125 sr.
Q4 Build Renaissance Prototype. 125sr - 120 sr = 5 sr.

Assume we find at least 10sr on missions during year, and year final total is at least 15 sr.

EDIT: Your mistake above was that 150 + 4*40 + 1.5*80 = 430, not 470.
 
Last edited:
Also, we're going to be launching a 5th Exploration Corps Excelsior in Q1 next year. That means an extra Event every Captain's Log, guaranteed. That is going to go great things for our income.

Er, assuming the S'Harien doesn't pull a "Miracht" and have some absolute embarrassing disaster of a turn its first year.
 
I would rather not budget for a resource infusion. We're going to have a LOT less PP this time
That's quite possible, but not a known fact. Optimistic pp calculation: 7+15(Q3)+30(Q4)+30(Q1) + 52 (current income) + 10 (integrating affiliates) + 10 (S'harien name) + 20 (ambition completion 2 years early) +25 (Caitian accession in Q1) = 199, about the same as spending last year. 150 pp is reasonably realistic.
 
Also, we're going to be launching a 5th Exploration Corps Excelsior in Q1 next year. That means an extra Event every Captain's Log, guaranteed. That is going to go great things for our income.

Er, assuming the S'Harien doesn't pull a "Miracht" and have some absolute embarrassing disaster of a turn its first year.

Captain's log, stardate 22404-4. It would appear that during our passage through the nebula the S'Harien's hull picked up the spores of a spaceborne organism, and we have now accidentally introduced them to Starbase 1. Before the spores could be detected, other ships inadvertantly carried them to Utopia Planetia, Starfleet Command, and numerous other production and administrative sites throughout the Federation. Our preliminary research indicates that this organism consumes bulk and special resources alike at a rate of several dozen standard units per year, and emits a telepathic field that saps political will from any government officials in range. So far, there doesn't seem to be any way of getting rid of the organism.
 
I'd honestly vote to take a resource infusion every time we are starting an Excelsior if I thought I could get votes for it. I feel it's an incredibly efficient use of PP.
Compared to budget increases it isn't efficient in the very long run, but it has a lot of advantages in the short run. What it comes down to is that "burning" PP on a one time basis to turn them into resources only sometimes makes sense, but not always. This is one of those times for me, because...

I'm okay with the resource request, based on those two build boards. Seems a reasonable expense of 20pp.
I want my Connies. Lots of them. I will support the budget request to make that happen.

[hugs million ton starships]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Rennies too, and I even love the Constellations in their own way even if nobody else appreciates them properly. But I want my Connies. For totally valid reasons.

[glares at others, daring them to prove otherwise]

Obviously we can't set a build order in Q1 for prototypes we haven't even requested, let alone started designing yet. That doesn't mean we can't do so for prototypes that have significant design work done, a known cost and a known due date for the design.
Logically, we can leave a berth empty any time we want. We can set aside resources for a prototype we plan to request any time we want. Now, we can't say "start building USS Renaissance in that berth at that time," but that's not what Briefvoice seems to be suggesting. I think he's just suggesting we leave a berth at Utopia Planitia open so that, in a year or two, we have a place to build USS Renaissance, that isn't full of Connie and that doesn't compete with an Excelsior for berthing space in the 2310-2315 timeframe.

The problem with reclassifying Excelsiors is that we currently (and with mid term building plans) have too few home fleet Explorers even for Combined Fleet Doctrine, let alone Lone Ranger Doctrine. If we reclassify all of our existing Explorers we will never see a reasonable proportion of Explorers. There is no real advantage for reclassification either assuming we keep up Explorer tech which we need to anyway.
When we started talking about reclassifying the Connies as cruisers, they were a sixty year old design. If we do the same thing for the Excelsiors it'll be the year 2345 or so before we get around to that. By that time, we may well have enough Ambassadors that it has ceased to be a serious problem.

I will also note that our declaring the Constitution-Bs to be cruisers does not appear to have 'demoted' our sole surviving Constitution-A to cruiser status. Nor did it rob the USS Cheron of any benefits it may enjoy by virtue of being an explorer.

I would think mass producing excelsiors would be too time and resource heavy when we can build smaller ships of comparable performance.
I would actually be made happy, on some level, if some time in the 2340s we build a 2.3 million ton "cruiser" with the best stats we can manage, point to it, and say, "I dub thee an Excelsior-B!" This honestly seems to be what Starfleet actually DID in canon, given that we see Excelsiors all over the place in Federation territory carrying out 'cruiser' roles.

There would be a lot of advantages to our doing exactly that, and it would probably be a better option than building the canon Niagara-class, which is a bloated, worthless tub that gives us 2310-era cruiser performance on a 2330-era explorer sized hull... in 2350.

[In short, the Federation's canon 2320-era cruiser is clearly as good or better than a reclassified version of its 2250-era explorer. But the Federations 2350-era cruiser is NOT clearly good or better than a reclassified version of its 2280-era explorer.]
 
Captain's log, stardate 22404-4. It would appear that during our passage through the nebula the S'Harien's hull picked up the spores of a spaceborne organism, and we have now accidentally introduced them to Starbase 1. Before the spores could be detected, other ships inadvertantly carried them to Utopia Planetia, Starfleet Command, and numerous other production and administrative sites throughout the Federation. Our preliminary research indicates that this organism consumes bulk and special resources alike at a rate of several dozen standard units per year, and emits a telepathic field that saps political will from any government officials in range. So far, there doesn't seem to be any way of getting rid of the organism.
There's no 'horrified' rating. This is a grave oversight.
 
Logically, we can leave a berth empty any time we want. We can set aside resources for a prototype we plan to request any time we want. Now, we can't say "start building USS Renaissance in that berth at that time," but that's not what Briefvoice seems to be suggesting. I think he's just suggesting we leave a berth at Utopia Planitia open so that, in a year or two, we have a place to build USS Renaissance, that isn't full of Connie and that doesn't compete with an Excelsior for berthing space in the 2310-2315 timeframe.
This seems to be a pile-up of three different misunderstandings:
  1. Briefvoice's plans call for requesting the Renaissance prototype to be ordered to be built starting in Q4 during the shipyard operation vote in Q1, before the design is completed. Note that the columns of the spreadsheet represent quarters, not years.
  2. Briefvoice was then noting that the example Oneiros gave about prototypes could be read as calling in question whether 1. was possible.
  3. I pointed out that the example differed in that in Q1 of that hypothetical year the hypothetical design hadn't even been requested, unlike the Renaissance in Q1 next year, and that therefore the example wasn't saying anything about the feasibility of 1.
 
Last edited:
The one thing I might be ok with using that berth for might be Centaur refits. If our design team says "ok, we're ready for the prototype" we can just kick the refit out to a different berth as it's available and it'll only lose a few quarters.
 
The one thing I might be ok with using that berth for might be Centaur refits. If our design team says "ok, we're ready for the prototype" we can just kick the refit out to a different berth as it's available and it'll only lose a few quarters.

We can start building the prototype next year. We can plan for the prototype in next set of builds we vote for. It is 100% certain that our design team will finish the Renaissance design in Q3 2309, and we can start building the prototype in Q4. And since I'm proposing a berth that will only open in Q2 (since we requested it in the 2308 Snakepit), the berth will remain empty for only 2 quarters. That's not even long enough for it to be worth starting anything else there.
 
Plus, I'm not sure you can necessarily kick refits from one berth to another like that. You certainly shouldn't be able to do it with new construction.
 
Well, it is a temporal anomaly rooting back to the beginning of the history of one of the pre-Fed polities. And stardates are explicitly meant to be a time measuring system which accounts and corrects for relativity and other weird spacetime things. There's a viable explanation or two somewhere in there.
 
Well, it is a temporal anomaly rooting back to the beginning of the history of one of the pre-Fed polities. And stardates are explicitly meant to be a time measuring system which accounts and corrects for relativity and other weird spacetime things. There's a viable explanation or two somewhere in there.
Already decided for the retcon, the stardates have already been fixed.
 
We can just not start two at once if we're running tight on crew. That table's just a guide, not what we're actually doing.
 
We can just not start two at once if we're running tight on crew. That table's just a guide, not what we're actually doing.

Absolutely. The only thing we have to vote on and lock in is the shipbuilding that happens in 2309. Plenty will happen before we vote again for the 2310 builds.

I'm actually coming around to the idea that 2310 should not be a two Excelsior year, as we'll likely still be starting cruisers. Wait until 2311 when all of our cruiser berths are in mid-build, and then maybe we make it a two Excelsior year. But hey, if Captain ka'Sharren rolls up and dumps 500sr on us from a mission payout or something like that, we might change our minds.
 
Okay, regarding overflow on research turns.

For this turn, I'll retrospectively assign inspiration +5s to the completed categories. However, from this point onwards, I'm stopping overflow, because an unintended side-effect of the new branching research tree is that handling overflow just went from easy to nightmarish. I'm considering having an internal overflow, whereby the extra points can be assigned within the same tech node like an inspiration bonus, which I think will help reduce the number of orphaned techs. But if there's nothing left within a tech card to assign to, those points are lost.

@OneirosTheWriter
Whatever happened with the request to switch which computing subtech Daystrom and the Starfleet Science Academy we assigned to, given that the decision to assign Daystrom to 2310s Computing Installations instead of 2310s Shipboard Computing was based entirely on an incorrect understanding of apparently changed overflow/inspiration interactions?

That aside, you forgot several updates from the last research turn in the megapost.

2310s Computing Installations

30 / 30 Type-12 Duotronic Mainframe (Data Analysis Center II) (-1 RP required to activate Tech Team (8))
30 / 30 Wolff-T'Par Portable Mainframe (Portable Analysis Centers) (+2 rp annually from research colonies)

13 / 20 Pattern 3 SCF (Supercomputer Facility I) (Increases Comms Encryption, -1 to attempts to opposing SigInt attempts)

should be

30 / 30 Type-12 Duotronic Mainframe (Data Analysis Center II) (-1 RP required to activate Tech Team (8))
30 / 30 Wolff-T'Par Portable Mainframe (Portable Analysis Centers) (+2 rp annually from research colonies)
20 / 20 Pattern 3 SCF (Supercomputer Facility I) (Increases Comms Encryption, -1 to attempts to opposing SigInt attempts)


2310s Deflector Shields

I have no clue what is with the 20/40 here.

--

2310s Warp Core Safety

16 / 40 K19 Main Engineering System Module (Warp Core Damage Failsafe Design II) (Reduced chance of Warp Core Breach and reduce crew loss in the event of ship destroyed)
16 / 40 Light-Weight Coolant Redundancy (Warp Core Operation Safety Design II) (Improved reliability by 2%)
0 / 20 EPS Conduit Mag Failsafes I (Reliability for all stats improved by 0.1)

should be

27 / 40 K19 Main Engineering System Module (Warp Core Damage Failsafe Design II) (Reduced chance of Warp Core Breach and reduce crew loss in the event of ship destroyed)
22 / 40 Light-Weight Coolant Redundancy (Warp Core Operation Safety Design II) (Improved reliability by 2%)
6 / 20 EPS Conduit Mag Failsafes I (Reliability for all stats improved by 0.1)

--

2310s Message Security
Technology for looking into other people's messages, or stopping them from looking into yours.

10 / 40 Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna (Subspace Communications Intercepts II) (Allow deployment of Improved Listening Posts)
6 / 20 Subspace Communications Encryption I (Improve Information Security)
11 / 20 Subspace Communications Decryption I (Improve Intelligence Phase Information)

should be

14 / 40 Centi-Cochrane Band Antenna (Subspace Communications Intercepts II) (Allow deployment of Improved Listening Posts)
10 / 20 Subspace Communications Encryption I (Improve Information Security)
20 / 20 Subspace Communications Decryption I (Improve Intelligence Phase Information)
Fixed these now
 
Last edited:
So to be clear, from here on out, overflow is not a thing that happens at all? Or is overflow just not a thing that happens with inspiration bonuses?

While I don't want to increase your administrative overhead, I will note that if overflow disappears, people are going to 'game' which tech teams are assigned to which techs a lot more, because it will often be possible to complete a tech field with a team of lesser ability, reserving the more skilled team to go do something else.

Research terms are going to involve a lot more seemingly random shuffling of teams as a result, with high-skill teams being swapped out for low-skill ones at the last minute. And it will result in research becoming more confusing for the non-spreadsheeteer faction of the player base.
 
So to be clear, from here on out, overflow is not a thing that happens at all? Or is overflow just not a thing that happens with inspiration bonuses?

While I don't want to increase your administrative overhead, I will note that if overflow disappears, people are going to 'game' which tech teams are assigned to which techs a lot more, because it will often be possible to complete a tech field with a team of lesser ability, reserving the more skilled team to go do something else.

Research terms are going to involve a lot more seemingly random shuffling of teams as a result, with high-skill teams being swapped out for low-skill ones at the last minute. And it will result in research becoming more confusing for the non-spreadsheeteer faction of the player base.
It really is that much of a pain in the ass that I'm willing to put up with those ramifications.
 
So to be clear, from here on out, overflow is not a thing that happens at all? Or is overflow just not a thing that happens with inspiration bonuses?

While I don't want to increase your administrative overhead, I will note that if overflow disappears, people are going to 'game' which tech teams are assigned to which techs a lot more, because it will often be possible to complete a tech field with a team of lesser ability, reserving the more skilled team to go do something else.

Research terms are going to involve a lot more seemingly random shuffling of teams as a result, with high-skill teams being swapped out for low-skill ones at the last minute. And it will result in research becoming more confusing for the non-spreadsheeteer faction of the player base.
It sounds like Overflow is being changed to randomly apply to other, unfinished techs within the same Tech Node instead of the next tech in the sequence. Less having to hunt down the future nodes, helps us deal with nodes where there's some X/20 and X/40 (or stuff like that) techs since the overflow will go to help finish the X/40 techs faster. Does mean that there's 0 benefit to putting our best tech team on a node with only a few points left needed to finish, yes.
 
Back
Top