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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Simon_Jester said:
Again, a "ballot" in the vote would just look like

[ROM] Do Romulan thing

[CARD] Do Cardassian thing
[CARD] Write-in: do unexpected Cardassian thing

[GEN] What is up with the Dawiar seriously
[GEN] Are the Klingons feeling cranky this quarter
[GEN] Are the Sydraxians about to get up in our grill
[GEN] Write-in: do that other Cardassian thing I forgot about.

If this 'ballot' won, it would result in us doing one free Romulan thing, THREE Cardassian things (two of them freebies), and checking up on the Dawiar, Klingons, and Sydraxians.

If one of the four winners of the GEN vote is redundant with one of the winners of the ROM and CARD vote, you just keep going and pick the fifth-most popular GEN candidate, and so on.

EDIT:

I think this is a much more transparent and user-friendly way to handle intelligence than to have Yet Another Budgeting Debate.
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As in pick Write Ins for the Bonus ones?
 
How about we first do a vote for the 1 Romulan and 2 Cardassian reports and after that vote is over, have another vote for 4 General reports?

It would take more time though.
 
Just to give an example of what NetTally would produce with BriefVoice's vote plan:

Task: ANY

[X] [ANY] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [ANY] USS Polaris Incident Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [ANY] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [ANY] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice


Task: CARD

[X] [CARD] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice


Task: ROM

[X] [ROM] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

So it can work out. You just need to pick top X for each category.

edit: This requires any partition option other than "no partitioning" in NetTally
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
As in pick Write Ins for the Bonus ones?
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Write-ins could be options, just as they are for any other vote. I was picking 'dummy' options for humor value, but a serious vote might look more like Briefvoice's:


[] [ROM] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report

[] [CARD] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
[] [CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

[] [ANY] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
[] [ANY] USS Polaris Incident Report
[] [ANY] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)
[] [ANY] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report

So, you check the result of the ROM vote. Suppose "Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report" wins. That's our freebie for Romulans. Then the top two CARD choices are "Cardassian Fleet Strength Report" and "Ship Report: Lorgot-class Battlecruiser." So those are our two freebies for Cardassia.

THEN you look at the ANY/GEN vote winners. Let's say the top four winners are "USS Polaris Incident Report," "Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report," "Cardassian Fleet Strength Report," (from people voting for it in the general), and "Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report."

Well, three of those can be granted. But "Cardassian Fleet Strength Report" would be redundant, because we already won it as a Cardassian freebie. All you have to do is ignore that vote and skip down to the fifth most popular option in the GEN vote. Let's say that turns out to be "Cardassian Shipyard Report." That's still a Cardassia option, but it's not one of the ones that won a CARD freebie. So it's a valid candidate for the GEN vote.

So we have four popular GEN votes, one affecting Cardassia. Plus two free Cardassia votes and one free Romulus vote. And we end up getting intelligence reports on the diplomatic posture of the Romulans and Klingons, a report on the Cardassians' fleet strength, battlecruiser, and shipyard activity, and a report on the Polaris incident and the Caitian-Dawiar war as a whole.

No risk of any redundancy or confusion, since sidestepping a redundant vote is simplicity itself as we just run down the line to the next candidate.

EDIT: Note that YES, we could theoretically wind up with people spamming GEN votes for information on Cardassia. But that would reflect massive, overwhelming player interest in knowing more about the Cardassians, in which case it's totally reasonable that we end up getting a huge amount of information on Cardassia and little else. It's not like Starfleet Intelligence doesn't have reason to focus on them.

And looking at the tenor of the previous vote, it seems likely that plenty of people will vote for other important information like "Sydraxian Posture" or "Polaris Incident Report."
 
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lbmaian said:
Just to give an example of what NetTally would produce with BriefVoice's vote plan:

Task: ANY

[X] [ANY] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [ANY] USS Polaris Incident Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [ANY] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [ANY] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice


Task: CARD

[X] [CARD] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

[X] [CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice


Task: ROM

[X] [ROM] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
No. of Votes: 1
Briefvoice

So it can work out.
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Well, it doesn't really, I'm pretty sure this is going to cause some serious distortions by throwing a number of mandatory Cardassian and Romulan votes into the same pot. That's why this hasn't just had a solution picked and operated. They aren't just going to fill in their bonus spots, they're going to overload the whole vote. That's why the original system envisioned just grabbing the highest tallying Cardassian/Romulan votes and adding them in without counting against the general four.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
Well, it doesn't really, I'm pretty sure this is going to cause some serious distortions by throwing a number of mandatory Cardassian and Romulan votes into the same pot. That's why this hasn't just had a solution picked and operated. They aren't just going to fill in their bonus spots, they're going to overload the whole vote. That's why the original system envisioned just grabbing the highest tallying Cardassian/Romulan votes and adding them in without counting against the general four.
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Then you can just ignore the Cardassian or romulan votes in the any bucket or specify that only vote for romulan and Cardassian reports in their respective buckets.

The partitioned vote method seems fine except for some wei D edge cases
 
The easiest would be to have everyone vote for 7 things, which need to include at least 2 Cardassian and 1 Romulan report, and then just count as you originally indended, without any separate pools.
 
Nix said:
The easiest would be to have everyone vote for 7 things, which need to include at least 2 Cardassian and 1 Romulan report, and then just count as you originally indended, without any separate pools.
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Makes it feel less like picking a bonus, and more like a penalising restriction. But we can give it a test vote this year and see how it shakes out.
 
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2308.Q3 - Steering Committee
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    • 2308.Q3

    Starfleet Intelligence Command - Steering Committee

    Admiral,

    We have a number of possible topics to pursue for presentation during our Qtr 4 reporting cycle. Please indicate which items you would like us to pursue. Because of various advances in signal intercept technology, foreign analysis, and the use of the USS T'Mir, we are able to access additional information about some areas in particular.

    Dutifully,
    Rear Admiral Nash zh'Rhashaan

    ==========================

    How to vote:

    Select up to 7 items. For a vote to be valid, you need a minimum of 2 Cardassian-related reports, and 1 Romulan-related reports.

    [ ] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ] <Minor Power> Diplomatic Posture Report

    [ ] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [ ] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
    [ ] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [ ] <Minor Power> Fleet Strength Report

    [ ] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [ ] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)

    [ ] Ship Analysis Report: <Write in Ship to try to get profile>
    [ ] Shipyard Activity Report for: <Write in Power to get current build details and possibly resource levels>

    [ ] Write in other Question
     
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    • OneirosTheWriter said:
    Well, it doesn't really, I'm pretty sure this is going to cause some serious distortions by throwing a number of mandatory Cardassian and Romulan votes into the same pot. That's why this hasn't just had a solution picked and operated. They aren't just going to fill in their bonus spots, they're going to overload the whole vote. That's why the original system envisioned just grabbing the highest tallying Cardassian/Romulan votes and adding them in without counting against the general four.
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    ...Then why do you keep counting everything in the same pot? Why not have totally separate pots for the Cardassian/Romulan votes using [ROM] and [CARD] categories? Why not just straight-up ban Cardassian and Romulan votes from the [ANY] pool, if you're that worried about it being 'distorted?'

    It seems like you're setting yourself up to encounter the exact problem you're worried about, when it would be much easier to avoid that problem.
     
    [X] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [X] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [X] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)
     
    OneirosTheWriter said:
    Makes it feel less like picking a bonus, and more like a penalising restriction. But we can give it a test vote this year and see how it shakes out.
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    Then just phrase it as picking up to 4 items, and if the vote includes at least 2 Cardassian and 1 Romulan reports you may pick up to 7. Identical in practice, but formulated as a bonus rather than a restriction.
     
    [X] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report

    Info on what all the major powers are doing diplomatically is always valuable.

    [X] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

    Cardassian fleet strength is obvious.

    [X] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [X] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)

    Very important to how we proceed with the Dawiar.

    [X] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
     
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    Simon_Jester said:
    ...Then why do you keep counting everything in the same pot? Why not have totally separate pots for the Cardassian/Romulan votes using [ROM] and [CARD] categories? Why not just straight-up ban Cardassian and Romulan votes from the [ANY] pool, if you're that worried about it being 'distorted?'

    It seems like you're setting yourself up to encounter the exact problem you're worried about, when it would be much easier to avoid that problem.
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    I actually fail to see what effect whatsoever your suggestion would have? It's exactly the same.
     
    OneirosTheWriter said:
    I actually fail to see what effect whatsoever your suggestion would have? It's exactly the same.
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    If you're only worried about imposing restrictions on people, then the effect is the same.

    If you're worried about votes for Romulan and Cardassian options swamping the general vote options, my suggestion of dividing the vote into ROM, CARD, and ANY categories will help. Most people will use the ANY category to vote for certain highly desirable items like the Polaris incident report. Some may ask for additional Cardassian info over and beyond what they get from two free CARD choices, but not as many.

    This way, the free CARD/ROM votes will draw away the distorting effect you're worried about, allowing people to concentrate on the broader picture for the main vote.
     
    [X] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report

    [X] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

    [X] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [X] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)

    [X] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
     
    [X] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
    [X] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [X] Yrillian Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [X] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)
    [X] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
     
    [X] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X] Sydraxian Diplomatic Posture Report

    [X] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [X] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians

    [X] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [X] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)
     
    My thoughts on priorities:
    The Cardassian Diplomatic posture is irrelevant - their actions state their posture pretty clearly. We need to know how much strength they have, and how much more they will have shortly. For the Romulans, as we get closer, good to help understand what they want, who they are. Also, we can't forget about the Sydraxians. if the Dawiar were given advanced weapons, wouldn't the first flare up power, a medium power, get it as well?

    [X] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [X] Ship Analysis Report: Cardassian Heavy Battlecruiser
    [X] Shipyard Activity Report for: Cardassians
    [X] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report

    [X] Sydraxian Fleet Strength Report
    [X] USS Polaris Incident Report
    [X] Caitian-Dawiar War Progress Report (Will include supplementary updates)

    Skipped items
    [ ] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report - No - the wars on our border, direct and indirect, are more important
    [ ] Dawair Diplomatic Posture Report - pass, unfortunately. Too many items to focus on now.
    [ ] Klingon Fleet Strength Report - ditto
     
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