To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Leila Hann · Nov 3, 2016

[X] [COUNCIL] Plan Expand, Grow, and Advance
-[X] Request Mining Colony at 21 Themis VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 (20) sr / year)
-[X] Request Mining Colony at Galus V, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 br / year)
-[X] Request new Starbase I [RBZ] 20pp
-[X] Request expansion of Utopia Planitia, 40pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
-[X] Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
-[X] Request Start of Renaissance class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 15pp
-[X] Request new Tech Team [weapons and shields] to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp
-[X] Request new Skill 2 ONA Research Team, Ship Construction & Fleet Design Doctrine Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
-[X] Request new Skill 3 University of Betazed Team, Xeno & Personal Tech Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Seyek]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Qloath]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Yrillians]
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Gretarians]
-[X] Establish forward Outposts in the Cardassian Border Zones, 4 turns, 20pp (create Outpost Is at Beta Corridan, Aelin, and colony worlds Vintus and 15 Themis)

Uses 201/204 PP with discounts. Betazoid counselors would be nice, but can wait for the next snakepit assuming that we have enough Betazoid starfleet officers for each ship to have a psychic already.

Nix · Nov 3, 2016

The main reason for getting another 3mt berth is so we don't have to choose between continuing to build at least one Excelsior a year and allowing members to build them. Member Excelsiors would be really good to have available in a war, they'd only take up one slot but do a lot more for us than the Constellation did in the biophage crisis, so we want them to build as many as they can afford.

HearthBorn · Nov 3, 2016

aledeth said:
Diplo pushes on 2/3 non-affiliates is good enough for me. I really wish we could punt out the Old Guard Tactical person, but we'd have to cut one of the Outposts/Starbases for it.

Yes, although I'm a smidge worried about pushing the Caldonians, with how quick Klingons take offense. I'd rather not see this turn into a multi front war with two greater powers attacking us.

Nix · Nov 3, 2016

HearthBorn said:
Yes, although I'm a smidge worried about pushing the Caldonians, with how quick Klingons take offense. I'd rather not see this turn into a multi front war with two greater powers attacking us.

I don't think there will be a repeat next year and the Klingons had more than half a decade to get used to the idea of the Caldonians being our affiliate. We aren't rushing them to membership yet, just over 300.

lbmaian · Nov 3, 2016

Leila Hann said:
-[X] Request new Tech Team [weapons] to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp

You should try specifying two preferences for the research team, since all the others have two.

Leila Hann said:
Uses 201/204 PP.

With discounts, yours actually totals ~~196.9~~ 194.9.

edit: forgot to discount the starbase
edit2: on the other hand, not sure if academy expansions are discounted; if they aren't, it's back to 200.4

I think we need more berths though, just not sure we need as many as a 3 extra ones so quickly. And the academy expansion isn't as urgent.

Binge-Reader · Nov 3, 2016

I'm starting to worry about the minimum defense we set for our goals, we're 27 off so we should be fine ish but may want to start pushing it higher fast considering the Cardies seem want to make things... more exciting, I think we'll need more than 120 faaaar to soon.

Leila Hann · Nov 3, 2016

lbmaian said:
You should try specifying two preferences for the research team, since all the others have two.

With discounts, yours actually totals 196.9.

Thanks! Will do.

I think we need more berths though, just not sure we need as many as a 3 extra ones so quickly. And the academy expansion isn't as urgent.

Isn't crew a bigger bottleneck right now than available berths, though? And didn't we just finish Utopia Planetia?

Nix · Nov 3, 2016

Simon_Jester said:
There's a big gap between "sectors are 25 light years across" and "sectors are a thousand light years across." I'm advocating for "sectors 100-200 light years across." I feel that this is a compromise point between:

Here you advocate for a factor of 4-8, but below...

2) Having the map vaguely correspond to astrographic reality (having the map compress 100 light years of vertical space into a 2D plane makes more sense than having it compress 10 light years onto the same plane and pretending all important stars in the galaxy lie within that thin slice)

Here you are advocating to increase scale by a factor of 10.

3) Having the Federation occupy enough volume that not everything takes place within the extensively charted and well known local group of stars immediately around Sol. We can't say "Vulcan orbits 40 Eridani A, a star sixteen light years away" and say "oh yeah, there are dozens of G-class stars in the Vulcan sector all significantly closer to Vulcan than they are to Earth." Because those two statements simply do not fit together consistently.

If you look at the map you will note that the founding home worlds are closer to each other than to much of their own sectors.
As of now there are no major colonies in the Vulcan sector but outside the 40 Eridani system, at all.
And the Vulcan sector would at current scale have a volume of something like 12000 cubic lightyears. About 20% of all stars are G or K class (40 Eridiani is itself K-class and I don't think it makes much sense to distinguish between them in this context, both can have non-tidally locked planets in the liquid water zone and potentially billions of years for life to evolve). That means we would expect about 10 G/K class stars in the sector. If we increase scale by a factor of 10 we'd have about 10000 (somewhere from around a thousand to a few thousand with your other suggested scalings), and around a thousand with your other suggested scaling factor. So I think this point very much works in favor of the current scale, actually.

As to ships being able to move fast across a sector, they don't, we redeploy them between quarters, not from week to week. Also, the main figures we have for ships taking a very long time to go anywhere are for long distance cruises in the absence of logistical support (e.g. Voyager). We have every reason to argue that starships can 'sprint' across friendly space faster than they can 'cruise' in unfriendly space, especially given that they are assured of being able to stop to refuel regularly in friendly territory.

Ships are able to move fast across a sector in this game. Amarkia to Kadesh takes less than a month, Neutral Zone to Aelin less than a quarter, and if we take stated stardates into account (which I didn't really when making the map) the events in a quarter are generally only a few days apart and often cover what would be dozens of lightyears on the current map.

I said literally nothing to contradict any of this, it's just that for many reasons it makes far more sense to represent the scale of the Federation on the 2D map as being less like one hundred light years from edge to edge, and more like 300 to 500.

Here you are advocating for increasing scale by a factor of 3-5. And that means you'd still need 10-15 sectors on top of each other to cover the height of the galactic disc.

I'm simply suggesting that we get a more coherent picture by choosing a slightly different set of factoids to ignore. In particular, ignoring the names of Star Trek stars when they correspond to real stars makes it a LOT easier to construct a plausible extent for Federation space that includes the idea that "we don't know what's out there, the frontiers are at best partially explored."

I agree that identifying named stars with real stars is a lot less important than making sure distances make sense. I disagree that any of your suggested scalings would actually do the latter.

lbmaian · Nov 3, 2016

Does anyone know if we get the 10% discount on academy expansions, outposts, and starbases as well? Nix's calc seems to assume that one of those doesn't get the discount.

Leila Hann said:
Isn't crew a bigger bottleneck right now than available berths, though? And didn't we just finish Utopia Planetia?

In the short-term, like for the next build cycle or so, no it's not urgently needed. The closest crew-specific bottleneck we have is techs, which is expected to come in a couple years.

Derek58 · Nov 3, 2016

Oh, here's an idea I had for what to do regarding the Enterprise-B and C: Time it so that the second Ambassador finishes when the Enterprise-B finishes the 5YM it's on, and move it into garrison duty on our most active Border Zone, which will probably still be the CBZ.

Then name that second Ambassador the Enterprise-C and have it take the vacant Explorer spot, possibly with Nash in command.

That way the Cardassians get to continue dealing with the Enterprise they've come to fear and the shiny new one that they'll soon fear even more!

Leila Hann · Nov 3, 2016

Derek58 said:
Oh, here's an idea I had for what to do regarding the Enterprise-B and C: Time it so that the second Ambassador finishes when the Enterprise-B finishes the 5YM it's on, and move it into garrison duty on our most active Border Zone, which will probably still be the CBZ.

Then name that second Ambassador the Enterprise-C and have it take the vacant Explorer spot, possibly with Nash in command.

That way the Cardassians get to continue dealing with the Enterprise they've come to fear and the shiny new one that they'll soon fear even more!

We need to name our biggest, scariest new warship the USS Ka'Sharren and put it in the CBZ the instant she dies or retires.

Nix · Nov 3, 2016

lbmaian said:
Does anyone know if we get the 10% discount on academy expansions, outposts, and starbases as well? Nix's calc seems to assume that one of those doesn't get the discount.

I assumed the science academy doesn't. We know colonies, shipyards and outposts do, we have never built a starbase but it should as well, but I don't remember academy expansions getting a discount when we got them, though it's possible I missed it.

Leila Hann said:
Isn't crew a bigger bottleneck right now than available berths, though? And didn't we just finish Utopia Planetia?

For shipbuilding we need more of everything, basically, which my plan tries to do. We don't have a surplus of anything or a shortage of anything big enough that we could definitely say that will /will not be the most limiting factor. Excelsior berths in particular we need to allow our members to build them, without pausing our own building program.

tryrar · Nov 3, 2016

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Expansion

Leila Hann · Nov 3, 2016

Nix said:
I assumed the science academy doesn't. We know colonies, shipyards and outposts do, we have never built a starbase but it should as well, but I don't remember academy expansions getting a discount when we got them, though it's possible I missed it.

For shipbuilding need more of everything, basically, which my plan tries to do. We don't have a surplus of anything or a shortage of anything big enough that we could definitely say that will /will not be the most limiting factor. Excelsior berths in particular we need to allow our members to build them, without pausing our own building program.

Noted. Will swap out academy expansion for a new excelsior birth.

The reason I'm not just voting for your plan is that I really think we need to make 4 non-affiliate pushes.

Tylonius · Nov 3, 2016

Derek58 said:
Oh, here's an idea I had for what to do regarding the Enterprise-B and C: Time it so that the second Ambassador finishes when the Enterprise-B finishes the 5YM it's on, and move it into garrison duty on our most active Border Zone, which will probably still be the CBZ.

Then name that second Ambassador the Enterprise-C and have it take the vacant Explorer spot, possibly with Nash in command.

That way the Cardassians get to continue dealing with the Enterprise they've come to fear and the shiny new one that they'll soon fear even more!

By that time Nash will be too old for exploration duty. We'll basically force her into a more senior role.

After all, Captains don't get to head Starfleet.

Nix · Nov 3, 2016

We'll have enough rp to activate 23 teams this year. We currently have 14, assuming we get the three available for a discount that makes 17. We might want to save a few rp for next year in case we get less lucky, but we will have 5 Explorers on 5YM next year so I don't think we need to save all that much. Have the rules for generic teams been finalized yet? We might want to use 1-3 of those this year.

OneirosTheWriter · Nov 3, 2016

You guys can map things out however you like, but I promise that I will not let anything as petty as reason, reality, or rationality get in my way when making systems, worlds, and anomalies

aeqnai · Nov 3, 2016

OneirosTheWriter said:
You guys can map things out however you like, but I promise that I will not let anything as petty as reason, reality, or rationality get in my way when making systems, worlds, and anomalies

And now you're officially a Trek writer!

lbmaian · Nov 3, 2016

My own take:

I'm basically gambling for a budget increase (chance at 50br/30sr, 30pp) over the mining colonies (15br/20sr increase over time, 14.4pp), and sacrificing one small berth.

Also really indecisive on a 4th diplomatic push vs a 3rd research team. Leaning toward the former, since with the Betazed team, we'll already have 3 other xenopsychology teams, and I think we got pretty lucky with rp this past year.

For the diplomatic pushes, I prefer a split of 3 non-affiliates, and 1 affiliate. Seyek and Qloath are shoo-ins. I prefer Yrillians over Gretarians, since we know too little of the former and the latter are relatively primitive and peaceful and can ask for help from the very nearby Federation anyway. For the affiliate, should be below 300, and I prefer Caldonians and Gaeni (science) over Orions (criminal problems) and Risa (less benefit). Flipped a coin, and got Caldonians. I'm also not worried about the Klingons complaining about an affiliate becoming more of an affiliate.

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Expansion, Budget version
-[X] Request Research Colony at Meridia VI, 8pp (4 turns, gain +5(6) rp / year)
-[X] Request expansion of Utopia Planitia, 40pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
-[X] Request new Starbase I [RBZ] 20pp
-[X] Request Ongoing Budget increase 30pp (Roll for success)
-[X] Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
-[X] Request Start of Renaissance class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 15pp
-[X] Request new Skill 2 ONA Research Team, Ship Construction & Fleet Design Doctrine Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
-[X] Request new Skill 3 University of Betazed Team, Xeno & Personal Tech Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy): Seyek
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy): Qloath
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy): Yrillians
-[X] Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy): Caldonians
-[X] Establish forward Outposts in the Cardassian Border Zones, 4 turns, 20pp (create Outpost Is at Beta Corridan, Aelin, and colony worlds Vintus and 15 Themis)

With discounts (excluding academy expansions), totals 204.4, which rounds down to 204.

Next year, if it's pp flush like this one, I'm considering Member World Coordination Office, which hopefully may reduce the the pp cost of refits for the common Mirandas and Constellations further.

OneirosTheWriter · Nov 3, 2016

By the by, if anyone has ideas for a "University of Betazed" logo, I'm welcoming suggestions

Kelenas · Nov 3, 2016

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Expansion

UbeOne · Nov 3, 2016

[X][COUNCIL] Plan Expansion

The Federation train has no brakes!

Nix · Nov 3, 2016

lbmaian said:
My own take:

I'm basically gambling for a budget increase (chance at 50br/30sr, 30pp) over the mining colonies (15br/20sr increase over time, 14.4pp), and sacrificing one small berth.

Also really indecisive on a 4th diplomatic push vs a 3rd research team. Leaning toward the former, since with the Betazed team, we'll already have 3 other xenopsychology teams, and I think we got pretty lucky with rp this past year.

I can't really say that a budget increase request is a bad idea, we don't really know enough to tell either way. I'm a bit concerned that it means increasing our share of the pie at the cost of other things (civilian infrastructure and member fleets) while mining colonies increase the size of the pie.
For the research teams, keep in mind that we will probably have enough fixed income to run 11 teams as of this year, (Caldonians should give us at least 4 rp) probably enough for 12 or more teams from next year onward, and 5 explorers and our sector fleets earning variable rp. I don't think there has been a quarter with less than 10 rp earned since the event system was changed. We will also get 30 rp for the Renaissance project according to earlier statements. That means there is virtually no danger of ever falling below 17 activated teams in the future. As for xeno specializations, we are probably going to use their other specializations this year, comms and personal tech, which frees up Starfleet Medical and Starfleet Science Academy for trauma/intensive medicine and computing research.

Shard said:
IMO we should take at least 1 refit, if not both refit options. They'll provide a quick boost to our military strength.

We should get them both later, just not now. Right now we have no free berths for them anyway. Get them in time for when we stop building Constellation-Bs and before we can start building Renaissances. Maybe the cost will even continue to decrease.

Chaeronea · Nov 3, 2016

@OneirosTheWriter Seeing as some plans are pushing to start developing the Ambassador class, which masses 3.1 megatons and therefore can't be built in any of the shipyard berths Starfleet has access to, can we start building bigger berths at our shipyards? Hopefully we can start on 5 megaton berths which will let us build Galaxy class ships, which are the biggest ships listed on the Ship Classes post.

Also, considering the effectiveness of the Cardassian torpedoes against the Polaris , can we get a weapons development research team approved by the Council?

Briefvoice · Nov 3, 2016

@OneirosTheWriter shouldn't we have a Weapons team option on the table from my two omakes "The Gap" and "The Challenge"?

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

a thirsty squirrel

a thirsty squirrel

Rocket Punch is Best Punch

Cabal Core Commander

Nerdy Homu

a thirsty squirrel

Cabal Core Commander

Daydreaming CPU

Diabetic Statistician