- Location
- somewhere
Sol is about 16 lightyears away from 40 Eridani, about 12 when projected onto the galactic plane. That's what the scale of the map was based on, basically.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
40 Eridani is 16.5 ly away from Sol, so that wouldn't work out.
We have to compromise on galaxy realism here for gameplay (well, mapping) purposes, and I favor compromising on lesser known aspects of the galaxy. In this case, that the galaxy is actually ~2000 ly thick is not as well known as famous stars like the Eridanis (one of which is Vulcan), Cygnis (one of which is Tellar), Epsilon Indi (Andoria), Tau Ceti, Sirius and so forth being within 20 ly of Sol.
edit: ninja'd
Well, I wouldn't mind pushing off the Ambassador for a couple years if we get a decent Excelsior-A refit, especially if the delay manages to shave off a fudge/reliability year.
I do agree that the plan works well for prioritizing which research should be done and what research teams are most urgently needed.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The flip side of that is that our immediate stellar neighborhood simply does not contain some of the lovely stellar anomalies we've seen portrayed in Star Trek (including in this game, such as with the co-orbiting neutron stars).
We can take license with common sense and the layout of the galaxy, making it inconsistent with both our stated goals (having a Federation of size at least vaguely consistent with what we know about space) and basic facts about the configuration of the galaxy (that it's more than a few dozen light years thick).
Or we can take license with the names of stars, which were assigned more or less randomly by people who were SO not worrying about anything other than "this sounds cool." I mean, Rigel is almost nine hundred light years away, and is a blue supergiant too energetic to reasonably support a biosphere. It would be far, far off the map. Do we let that stop us from talking about Rigelians?
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My headcanon with those sorts of situations was always 'this is a different place that was named that by the locals'.
AKA "Rigel" is the Rigellian native word for "home star/home planet" much like "Earth" or "Sol" for humans.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, but there are a lot of other examples of similar 'paradoxes' created by assuming all the action of the TOS era takes place within, say, fifty light years of Earth. Canonically the Enterprise travels to the edge of the galaxy or something recognizable as such in the very first episode, and that's just for starters.
It just makes a lot more SENSE to assume the Federation is at least some hundreds of light years across.
It just makes a lot more SENSE to assume the Federation is at least some hundreds of light years across.
aeqnai
Nerdy Homu
- Location
- Laniakea Supercluster
- Pronouns
- She/Her
TOS is fuckin bonkers with canon, mostly because the idea that things should be consistent with each other seems to have developed sometime midway through it. For a good while the Enterprise was a United Earth ship, for example.
- Location
- somewhere
I have already been taking license with the names of stars where necessary (the star we know as Rigel would not only be too far away, but also on the other side of the Klingons, but Rigel is such a short word that a coincidental use for another star by another species isn't particularly surprising). Vulcan also needs to be close to Sol for other reasons, it's more that they both needed to be sector seats and that the other core worlds couldn't be much further apart either that lead to the initial federation territory being so small.
We also know that a thousand lightyears takes about a year to cover even with Galaxy/Intrepid warp drives which are going to be a lot faster than ours, and a sector taking a year to cross would be a lot more problematic than any surprisingly close stellar phenomena.
- Location
- somewhere
There also isn't a ring shaped energy fence around the Galaxy so I think it's best to ignore that as some special astronomical stupidity.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
The main point isn't really about how realistic the layout of this quest's galaxy is. It's that for mapping convenience, it is much much easier to assume that all the relevant star systems and thus territories in this ~100 ly radius sphere of known space are representable on a 2D map without much loss of information. In particular, we want to limit the number of overlapping territories in any 2D point so that we do not have to come up with a full 3D map.
There's no benefit to allowing relevant star systems in the hundreds of ly of "up" and "down" relative to the galactic plane other than violating the realistic scale of the galaxy that even many sci-fi fans are ignorant of. Seriously, how many casual sci-fi fans or even hard-core Trekkies know the thickness of the Milky way without googling it?
Yeah, I'm going to pretend that never happened. Not that it's ever going to be relevant in this quest.
Though ESP abilities would be interesting omake fodder...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
In the TOS era I suspect a lot of the writers viewed the Federation as Earth-centric. Hence the Enterprise having a more or less all-human crew.
There's a big gap between "sectors are 25 light years across" and "sectors are a thousand light years across." I'm advocating for "sectors 100-200 light years across." I feel that this is a compromise point between:
1) Trying to match up Star Trek locations with real stars (impossible to do consistently)
2) Having the map vaguely correspond to astrographic reality (having the map compress 100 light years of vertical space into a 2D plane makes more sense than having it compress 10 light years onto the same plane and pretending all important stars in the galaxy lie within that thin slice)
3) Having the Federation occupy enough volume that not everything takes place within the extensively charted and well known local group of stars immediately around Sol. We can't say "Vulcan orbits 40 Eridani A, a star sixteen light years away" and say "oh yeah, there are dozens of G-class stars in the Vulcan sector all significantly closer to Vulcan than they are to Earth." Because those two statements simply do not fit together consistently.
We have to choose what to ignore, and I'd rather ignore "40 Eridani A is only sixteen light years from Earth," personally.
There is just plain no consistency in the canon. If we want to draw consistent maps, something that Star Trek's writers have never really tried to do... we're going to have to make assumptions that violate some of the mutually contradictory 'facts' and assumptions that make up the canon.
We can't just blindly accept every canon statement. There are too many mutually exclusive claims about how fast ships can travel and how far apart things are. Because the writers simply didn't care that one week they had the Enterprise able to visit eight star systems in two days or whatever, while the next week they had the Enterprise needing most of a day to cover a single light-year.
As to ships being able to move fast across a sector, they don't, we redeploy them between quarters, not from week to week. Also, the main figures we have for ships taking a very long time to go anywhere are for long distance cruises in the absence of logistical support (e.g. Voyager). We have every reason to argue that starships can 'sprint' across friendly space faster than they can 'cruise' in unfriendly space, especially given that they are assured of being able to stop to refuel regularly in friendly territory.
I said literally nothing to contradict any of this, it's just that for many reasons it makes far more sense to represent the scale of the Federation on the 2D map as being less like one hundred light years from edge to edge, and more like 300 to 500.
See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. You're selectively deciding to ignore things that make it impractical to maintain a coherent picture of what's supposed to be going on. And you are totally right to do so.
I'm simply suggesting that we get a more coherent picture by choosing a slightly different set of factoids to ignore. In particular, ignoring the names of Star Trek stars when they correspond to real stars makes it a LOT easier to construct a plausible extent for Federation space that includes the idea that "we don't know what's out there, the frontiers are at best partially explored."
2308.Q2 - The Snakepit
- Location
- Australia
"Do you want advice Madam President?"
"I could give you a range of military options. Contingencies. I can have any of a dozen specialist staff Lieutenants in here with a rolled up flimsy of a deployment option.
"I could give you options ranging from the exrreme oftaking every ship avaliable to us from all sources and rolling over the Dwair so hard civilizations yet unborn will remember it; and we can parade in orbit and dare the Cardassians to come and have a go if they think they're hard enough
"We can support the Caitians with supplies and intelligence, or blockade the whole lot of them.
"I even have a Lieutenant with a plan to inspect all goods entering Dwair space for weapons and pass that along to the Caitians to enforce.
"Or we can continue regular operations
"None of that, I think, is right.
"None of this feels right. No one (with the possible exception of the Cardassians) seems to have expected or wanted war. No one is prepared. No one except Cardassia and the grave benefit
"Our real task is to figure out what went wrong, and to solve the problem without straining our resources or losing more lives. That will be the best memorial to our Eighty Three dead. We interview survivors, we review correspondence and signals, we tap our information resources and our best thinkers, and we figure this out now. We ask the Caitians to continue to hold back while we finish the task we started: mediation.
"If you want my advice Madam President, If you want my professional "Hunch": we take a well known high-profile Diplomat like Spock, a team from our new Betazoid members and put them on our most legendary and prestigious ship, our Flagship Enterprise and send them in with Captain Ka'Sharren to watch over them. Whatever you think of her, she's like the Starfleet legends of old, she gets results
"Mix and match those options to your taste and that of the council Madam President. But our main concern must be to do something, and do it now, before the flames of war engulf the quadrant
"That, Mister President, is my Advice. Negotiate with our best resources. And do it now"
"I could give you a range of military options. Contingencies. I can have any of a dozen specialist staff Lieutenants in here with a rolled up flimsy of a deployment option.
"I could give you options ranging from the exrreme oftaking every ship avaliable to us from all sources and rolling over the Dwair so hard civilizations yet unborn will remember it; and we can parade in orbit and dare the Cardassians to come and have a go if they think they're hard enough
"We can support the Caitians with supplies and intelligence, or blockade the whole lot of them.
"I even have a Lieutenant with a plan to inspect all goods entering Dwair space for weapons and pass that along to the Caitians to enforce.
"Or we can continue regular operations
"None of that, I think, is right.
"None of this feels right. No one (with the possible exception of the Cardassians) seems to have expected or wanted war. No one is prepared. No one except Cardassia and the grave benefit
"Our real task is to figure out what went wrong, and to solve the problem without straining our resources or losing more lives. That will be the best memorial to our Eighty Three dead. We interview survivors, we review correspondence and signals, we tap our information resources and our best thinkers, and we figure this out now. We ask the Caitians to continue to hold back while we finish the task we started: mediation.
"If you want my advice Madam President, If you want my professional "Hunch": we take a well known high-profile Diplomat like Spock, a team from our new Betazoid members and put them on our most legendary and prestigious ship, our Flagship Enterprise and send them in with Captain Ka'Sharren to watch over them. Whatever you think of her, she's like the Starfleet legends of old, she gets results
"Mix and match those options to your taste and that of the council Madam President. But our main concern must be to do something, and do it now, before the flames of war engulf the quadrant
"That, Mister President, is my Advice. Negotiate with our best resources. And do it now"
2308.Q2
The war between the Caitians and Dawiar dominates discussions in Paris. You haven't been to this many side-meetings and subcommittees and discreet meetings over coffee since the start of the Biophage crisis. A great many are questioning the role of the Polaris and her captain, much to your disgust. You stonewall those inquiries by reminding them it is the subject of a mandatory board of inquiry, but you have reviewed the cases yourself and you have the utmost faith in your captain. You meet with the President several more times, as well. She plays her cards close to the vest, which you find ironic in someone with an exploratory bent. Having this occur during her first term as President has been frustrating for her though, you can tell that much.
The Caitian observers speak to the Council, taking great pains to remind the councils of their mutual history, affiliation, and the role of the Shrr'harr in rescuing crew from the Polaris, as well as reinforcing the Dryad. They make a good impression, though they react fiercely to suggestions from junior members of the pacifist faction that they were hasty in declaring war. Their report on the war reveals that things have remained at a low level of intensity. The Dawiar are maintaining a defensive posture. After they lost two Shakakoun escorts for a Swarmer while protecting the Thon-Shalud mining colony world that borders Caitian space, the Dawiar have gathered their fleets in the Oriolis System. Neither side is willing yet to commit to a decisive battle. After all, all-or-nothing battles are a lot more palatable when playing a game with a save function, as opposed to real life where your next wave of ships is a year and a half away and you could lose the war with a single blunder.
The Amarki have clearly started to hit their straps as Council members, as they proceed to tear strips off you over the fact Starfleet still relies on Constellation-class cruisers, going so far as to suggest that their Hebrinda-class cruisers should be produced by Starfleet. That idea is a political non-starter; the Federation considers the design ethos that guides the appearance of Starfleet ships to be an important part of their diplomatic efforts. People should be able to simply look at a Starfleet ship and, even if they don't recognise the exact class, still recognise it as Starfleet. However, it still makes you worry that if you aren't seen to be taking steps to generate the next step in cruiser development soon, it will start to cost you political willpower.
Of course, much talk comes up in the Council as to the role the Cardassians have played in this crisis and others. The appearance of their weaponry in Dawiar hands was a rude shock to everyone. With its effectiveness given such a visceral demonstration in the loss of the Polaris, a lot of the other minor powers are starting to reassess how safe they'll be under your protection.
[ ][COUNCIL] Submit a plan to the Council
(You may select any number of options, as long as you can pay the Political Will cost. You currently have two-hundred and four (204) Political Will to spend.
[The Council has Increased the threat level by +2 for the Caitian-Dawiar War of 2308]
======================================
Federation Council Options for 2308.Q2
- Request Mining Colony at 21 Themis VII, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 (20) sr / year)
- Request Research Colony at Meridia VI, 8pp (4 turns, gain +5(6) rp / year)
- Request Mining Colony at Galus V, 8pp (4 turns, gain +15 br / year)
- Request expansion of San Francisco Fleet Yards, 15pp (4 turns, gain new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times]
- Request expansion of 40 Eridani A Shipyards, 20pp (4 turns, gain new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times]
- Request expansion of Ana Font Shipyard, 10pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times]
- Request expansion of Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility, 10pp (4 turns, gain 1 new 1m t berth) [Can take multiple times, +5pp per subsequent build]
- Request Excelsior berth at a shipyard, 40pp (6 turns, gain new 3m t berth)
- Request Cruiser berth at Utopia Planitia, 20pp (6 turns, gain new 2m t berth)
- Request expansion of Utopia Planitia, 40pp, (4 turns, gain 1 3mt, 1 1mt berth)
- Request new Starbase I [Write in Sector] 20pp for home sectors, CBZ or RBZ, 30pp for KBZ
- Reduce Militarisation Level 60pp
- Increase Threat Level 45pp
- Request Ongoing Budget increase 30pp (Roll for success)
- Request Allocation for an Excelsior's resources, one-off-infusion of an Excelsior's cost, 20pp
- Request Academy Expansion, 35pp (Gain +.5 Officers/Enlisted/Techs throughput)
- Request Science Academy Expansion, 20pp (Gain +1 Techs throughput)
- Request Temporary Explorer Corps Recruitment Drive, 25pp, (Gain 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs, PLUS Convert 2 Officer, 2 Enlisted, 2 Techs from normal service)
- Request Start of Ambassador class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 45pp
- Request Start of Renaissance class project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 15pp
- Request Start of Custom Explorer project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 50pp
- Request Start of Custom Cruiser project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 30pp
- Request Start of Custom Escort project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 45pp
- Request Refit Program for Miranda class [+1 S,H,L for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns, 40pp (NB: new unit cost for the Miranda will be 60/45)
- Request Refit Program for Constellation class [+1 C,S,D, for 20br, 10sr, 1 Year (4 turns)], 6 turns 35pp (NB: new unit cost for Constellation will be 70/45)
- Request new Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 20pp
- Request new Skill 2 Comms & Xeno Federation Broadcast Service Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
- Request new Skill 2 ONA Research Team, Ship Construction & Fleet Design Doctrine Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
- NEW Request new Skill 3 University of Betazed Team, Xeno & Personal Tech Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship Design Bureau, 10pp
- Request focused Diplomacy on a potential member species, 10pp (One affiliate or prospective race will undergo accelerate diplomacy) [Can be taken up to four times]
- Expand Explorer Corps Recruitment drives to affiliates, 25pp (One affiliate starts generating 0.3 of Explorer Corps crew, arrangement depends on species) [Once per affiliate]
- Arrange to have an Old Guard Admiral convinced it is time to retire, 20pp
- Add a Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops, 30pp (allow cooperation with member worlds on ship-building priorities as part of Shipyard Ops turn phase)
- NEW Establish forward Outposts in the Cardassian Border Zones, 4 turns, 20pp (create Outpost Is at Beta Corridan, Aelin, and colony worlds Vintus and 15 Themis)
- NEW Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25 Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
====
Federation Grading:
Current Minimum Science = 50 [Now 85]
Current Maximum Combat = 250 [Now 110]
(Maximum Combat is a Soft cap, will gain +1 Militarisation per 10 pts over - Each point of Threat Level adds 10 to Max Combat)
Minimum Concurrent 5 Year Missions = 3
Current Militarisation Level = 3
Current Federation Threat Level = 11
Council Objectives:
2 New Oberths by 2311
120 Defence by 2312 (Currently 93)
Starfleet Ambitions:
Operate no fewer than 5 concurrent Five Year Missions by 2311.
Federation Council:
President - Jorlyth sh'Arrath, Expansionist Faction (2308-2314)
Factions -
Expansionist (Human, Andor) - 35%
Pacifist (Vulcan) - 30%
Hawkish (Amarki) - 15%
Development (Tellar) 20%
(Species listed in brackets are principal backers, not exclusive membership)
Current Federation Full Members:
Humans
Vulcans
Andorians
Tellarites
Amarki
Betazoids
Current Federation Affiliates:
Caitians 500/500 - Pending close of War with Dawiar
Rigellians 327/500 + 6 = 333/500
Orions 245/500 + 14 = 259/500
Risa 228/500 + 22 = 250/500
Indorions 265/500 + 26 = 291/500
Apiata 302/500 + 12 = 314/500
Caldonians 232/500 + 24 = 256/500
Gaeni 203/500 + 12 = 215/500
Currently Known Others Possible Members:
Yrillians 45/100
Seyek 90/100
Dawiar -15/100
Kadeshi 60/100
Sotaw 35/100
Gretarians 25/100
Qloath 25/100
Sydraxians -40/100
Major Powers
Romulans - Trending Positive
Klingons - At Peace
Cardassians - Low-Level Sporadic Conflict
Last edited:
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
Ooh, those forward Outposts in the CBZ are very tempting, and shouldn't be too hard to fit in with the other stuff.
Betazoid Counsellors looks nice too, but could wait a year or two.
Oh and the cost to start the Renaissance went down as well! Excellent
Betazoid Counsellors looks nice too, but could wait a year or two.
Oh and the cost to start the Renaissance went down as well! Excellent
Last edited:
- Location
- Central Standard Time
To get:
+40 for pushes
165 total.
Now I'm not sure about the remaining 50.
An academy expansion would be nice, but so would some refits.
- Add a Member World Coordination Office under Shipyard Ops, 30pp (allow cooperation with member worlds on ship-building priorities as partof Shipyard Ops turn phase)
- NEW Establish forward Outpostsin the Cardassian Border Zones, 4turns, 20pp (create Outpost Is at Beta Corridan, Aelin, and colonyworlds Vintus and 15 Themis)
- NEW Establish Betazoid Counsellors in Starfleet vessels, starting with Explorer Corps, 8 turns, 50pp (Increased Retention nets +.25Officer/Crew/Technician in Explorer Corps)
- Request new Skill 2 ONA Research Team, Ship Construction & Fleet Design Doctrine Spec, Tech Team to be added to your Ship DesignBureau, 10pp
- Request Start of Renaissanceclass project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 15pp
+40 for pushes
165 total.
Now I'm not sure about the remaining 50.
An academy expansion would be nice, but so would some refits.
Last edited:
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Initial thoughts:
This is new. I'm not sure what we should take from this info though.
Good to see clarification on increasing pp expense. But this is only on this particular shipyard - does this also apply to the other shipyards?
Cheaper!
Still expensive
I'm surprised member worlds aren't clamoring for a shorter-term refit.
Expected.
But still no weapons research team
So Starbase in RBZ for 20pp is still an option.
Good to see the 4 push cap notice there.
Expensive, but this is a good way to increase explorer corps recruitment. Also possible side benefits of having ship councilors.
This is new. I'm not sure what we should take from this info though.
Good to see clarification on increasing pp expense. But this is only on this particular shipyard - does this also apply to the other shipyards?
Cheaper!
Still expensive
I'm surprised member worlds aren't clamoring for a shorter-term refit.
Expected.
But still no weapons research team
So Starbase in RBZ for 20pp is still an option.
Good to see the 4 push cap notice there.
Expensive, but this is a good way to increase explorer corps recruitment. Also possible side benefits of having ship councilors.
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
I'd rather build one in the RBZ. Lets us remove a few ships.
The Outpost option will give us a nice Defense increase in the CBZ.
Last edited:
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
If it wins I get to write an Omake about it! > : V
- Location
- Austin, TX
RBZ for the starbase, while we can, please.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We've got 200, why not both?