To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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This. And since they've said we would need to take the lead, we may have the ability to ensure their forces are in the line of fire right beside ours if the Cardassians try to call our bluff.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Tally tiem.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I could live with that as long as they don't actively try to escalate the war, which is admittedly a very real possibility we should consider.
I don't mind the Horizon indirectly benefiting from this war if they are helping us. Even if their help consists entirely of "sit things out until the decisive battle then interfere in our favor," because hell, at least they tipped a decisive battle in our favor.
The only things I'm not happy with are them trying to start the war (which they might) or refusing to help and taking advantage of our distraction.
Do you mean Dreamers? Because I don't think there was a proposal to ask for the Dreamers to help us by crossing Federation space.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
They'll still take months to reach the front lines, though. Like by the time they reach our border with Cardassia, the Pact will probably have control over all the Chrystovian orbits.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
All the militant autocracies and oligarchies suddenly get very worried because now there's a pretty good chance the Federation might intervene the next time they start a war with eachother, which might push them closer towards eachother.
HoH. They're very far away. If you want to pursue a strategy of send ships to Chrystovian space right away, you can't have HoH in the initial sortie.
That's a question that'll be handled later though.
I don't really think we could gather a force that wouldn't get stomped in case of war much faster than that anyway. It's pretty much vital that we postpone things breaking down for a couple months if we don't want to send a bunch of people to their deaths.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
Props to the GM's for making a scenario that splits the thread so well.
Also something to consider. There is a task force of Cardassian ships in Gorn Space right now. Their supply lines could easily be cut by us. Could we try to use that as leverage in some way? Problem is that invading Gorn space to attack them would be a violation of Gorn sovereignty and likely to drive them into the Cardie camp, but there might be some pressure to exert there.
Also something to consider. There is a task force of Cardassian ships in Gorn Space right now. Their supply lines could easily be cut by us. Could we try to use that as leverage in some way? Problem is that invading Gorn space to attack them would be a violation of Gorn sovereignty and likely to drive them into the Cardie camp, but there might be some pressure to exert there.
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- They/Them
Also, intervening might further push the Gorn into the Cardassian camp as they see us deciding to intervene in favor of someone who's not even our affiliate, from the ominous noises Iron Wolf has been making.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
True.
What it comes down to is that, realistically, our strategy if we intervene is going to be something like "try to negotiate a cease-fire, offer to jointly inspect Chrystovian space and limit any unethical activities, start reinforcing the border. Given the need to secure our own border, we can't whip together a big enough fleet fast enough to come 'riding to the rescue' of Chrystovia proper unless either the Chrystovians hold out much longer than we have any right to hope, or unless we somehow persuade the Cardassians to slow down. But what we can do is mass enough force to make it obvious that we mean what we say when we say "okay, we can do this in a way that respects Chrystovian independence, or we can do this the hard way."
I dunno. They might equally well decide to try and arrange matters so that the next "someone who's not even our affiliate" that we intervene in favor of is them.
Origami Clock
Right twice a day
- Location
- Brighton, UK
Thing is, they don't want to respect their independence. They want to annex them. Why would they respect their independence when that's the thing they want to get rid of?
The Gorn are kinda divided on the issue at the moment. Obviously they very much like the industrial assistance the Cardassians provide, but they also very much like the trade bloc the Federation is. And different political factions are using both powers to try and jockey for position. However, that stance could change.
Honestly they'd probably prefer it if you and the Cardassians kept the attention on them and not those Chrystovian hussies who showed up to the ball late and immediately knocked over the punch bowl
Honestly they'd probably prefer it if you and the Cardassians kept the attention on them and not those Chrystovian hussies who showed up to the ball late and immediately knocked over the punch bowl
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
If the only option for nonintervenion is a strongly worded letter, then I may change my vote. Even if we won't go to war we can still take some action.
If we choose intervention, can we select our approach similar to how we did the Breen? That would sway my vote, because I am all for soft power intervention as we marshal our forces to back it up.
If we choose intervention, can we select our approach similar to how we did the Breen? That would sway my vote, because I am all for soft power intervention as we marshal our forces to back it up.
Origami Clock
Right twice a day
- Location
- Brighton, UK
Not really. SIGINT does t really help when there's not anyone that can meaningfully contest the Cardies while they're getting boots on the ground.
Intervention will most likely lead to war and all the more autocratic polities that we we are making inroads to to get quite worried that they're next.
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So, back again- I have a question; what exactly are our goals here? As had been said, it is far too late to contest the invasion and the CB of the Cardassians is (at least in my opinion) valid, even taking into account any exaggeration/lies. With that said, I think our aim should not be protecting the Chrystovians from military defeat, but to prevent vassalisation/ permanent occupation. This, we can manage by placing a task force (even a single ship) in Chrystovian space to aid/observe Cardassian peacekeeping efforts (and broadcast them as wide as possible), and asking the horizon/ ISC fleets to aid in reconstruction of damaged infrastructure once the war is over. In either case, any attack by the Cardassians becomes blatant agression rather than firm peacekeeping. The PR war cuts two ways, and even the Cardassian government cannot easily justify an unprovoked attack on such a force, leaving aside any tactical considerations. If they demand we remove our "agressive" fleet from Chrystovian territory, we can do the same.
TL;DR- War is not an option, but nothing stops us beating them at their own game. As long as the Federation has at least a minimal (but loud) presence before the cardassians force vassalisation we can tell them "good job being peacekeepers, you can go home now". The prescence of so many other great power fleets should only make it harder for them to justify a large fleet after winning.
Edit; this hinges on us being there before total surrender. If the Cardassians manage that, the can claim the Chrystovian government "invited" them alone to aid in reconstruction and my plan becomes useless. How fast can we get a ship there with enough presence to act ass our observer? (ninja'd by @Simon_Jester)
TL;DR- War is not an option, but nothing stops us beating them at their own game. As long as the Federation has at least a minimal (but loud) presence before the cardassians force vassalisation we can tell them "good job being peacekeepers, you can go home now". The prescence of so many other great power fleets should only make it harder for them to justify a large fleet after winning.
Edit; this hinges on us being there before total surrender. If the Cardassians manage that, the can claim the Chrystovian government "invited" them alone to aid in reconstruction and my plan becomes useless. How fast can we get a ship there with enough presence to act ass our observer? (ninja'd by @Simon_Jester)
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al103
Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)
- Location
- Russia, Krasnoyarsk
For all the moral outrage of "but they'll do to them what they did to Bajorans!" I don't remember demands to start immediate war to free Bajorans or at least not in this quantity and quality. And saving Bajorans would've been much, MUCH easier. Exactly what makes them more untouchable than Bajorans are?
Himmelhand
Giant Sinkhole 2020
- Location
- Midwestern US
I'm not saying in terms of the method we chose, but of deciding what methods we wanted to consider (i.e., the pre-Breen riot vote). I think many people are open to a limited intervention and very few are OK with writing a blank check.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Because the alternative is finding out the hard way just how big a fleetball we can roll into Bajor orbit, why else?
I for one am hoping to save the Bajorans too. Two for one deal.
Or, alternatively, of intimidating the Cardassians into not doing it to anyone else what they've already done to Bajor.
At the time the Cardassians took Bajor, we were in the middle of the anti-Syndicate campaign, the Sydraxians were randomly hitting our coreward flank with raids, and the Dawiar had just fought a war with the Caitians a few years ago and held their own. Go back and read the discussion around the Ghosts and Whispers event involving the Kadak-Tor to get a rough idea of what the strategic logic was in that period; nothing really critical changed between then and the time the Cardassians hit Bajor.
So we were very poorly placed then, in that we'd face attacks from several directions at once, with limited forces to meet them with, and we had a lot fewer member world fleets to mobilize against the threat.
Initial goal: Convince the Cardassians to agree to joint 'humanitarian' inspection of the Chrystovians to prevent them from doing any of the things cited in the Cardassian declaration of war, but also maintain a Federation presence in Chrystovian space along with the Cardassian presence.
If it comes to war, I'd say our goal should be to compel the Ashalla Pact to recognize Chrystovian independence (preferably with Federation observers in Chrystovian space). We may need to negotiate a transit corridor equivalent to the one the Cardies needed for dealing with the Dawiar, because of the placement of Imelak space.
As a secondary war aim, if things go well, we should seek to liberate Bajor.
I... doubt a single ship will do much, because it doesn't have the physical leverage to compel the Cardassians to acknowledge its moral force. Remember the Cardassian "at your throat or at your feet" mentality.
You'll have task force options, if you choose. They just won't be task forces that can engage in combat or taken military action. Which as Shey notes, amounts to very little practical effect.
- Location
- Australia
You could plausibly start to push for a general case to go to war - try to avoid being directly in the presence of your telepathic President, mind you, because that's not the thing you should advertise to the top Pacifist - and bring the members into line. A large scale reorientation of the fleet to return focus to the Cardassian side of the Federation will also send strong signals, not just to the Cardassians, but to your members as well, even if you aren't forming a murderball at Lapycorias casting meaningful looks at Bajor.
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- Location Location
@Simon_Jester
Really? While a single ship will not in any way threaten them, it will (hopefully) force them to consider what they show its crew. If nothing else, it will prevent immediate exploitation of captured assets. Given that all of the quadrant may be watching and judging, are they going to risk its destruction? and if they try to divert it out of the way, what are they trying to hide? In either case, their standing will take a big hit, which is about as much as we can hope for in this scenario.
Edit: Ignore me accidentally clicking on things
̶(̶f̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s̶!̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶!̶)̶
Really? While a single ship will not in any way threaten them, it will (hopefully) force them to consider what they show its crew. If nothing else, it will prevent immediate exploitation of captured assets. Given that all of the quadrant may be watching and judging, are they going to risk its destruction? and if they try to divert it out of the way, what are they trying to hide? In either case, their standing will take a big hit, which is about as much as we can hope for in this scenario.
Edit: Ignore me accidentally clicking on things
̶(̶f̶r̶e̶e̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶q̶u̶e̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s̶!̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶r̶o̶l̶l̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶!̶)̶
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah, we're probably gonna need this in the future. A general war with Cardassia strikes me as more or less inevitable, for all that I'd prefer to wait for them to explode and support dissident movements. It'll be hard and ugly but likely necessary-but first I'd like to diplomatically isolate them and ally with other powers for a united response that can push them on all fronts.
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