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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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If we don't go to war, I think this is what we can do with Task Forces. This is how many fires we can put out with no war. Note, I am leaving off attachments for simplicity.

Task Force: Beyond
Mission: Mission: Remove Horizon Influence from Licori, Felis, OSA, and Bolians
Commander: Rear Admiral Michel Thuir- Reroll first event failure each quarter
Ships 2324.Q1:
  • Explorers: 4 Starfleet Excelsior-A [Salnas (B), Rru'adorr(B)], Endurance (B), Liberty], 1 Starkin Basilica of Lakhept [Basilica of Lakhept]
  • Cruisers:3Apiata Little Queenship [Iprimazzi, Birizzida, Tapazzira], 2Orion Nelhiar Savings & Loan Enforcer Cruisers [OUSNelhiar's Pride, OUS Nelhiar's Honor],1 Honiani Reliquary
  • Frigates: 1 Gaeni Centaur-B, 6Apiata Stingers [Harzzira, Fozarri, Anuzza, Tunirri, Sezzina, Luzzina], 3 Orion Molhane Patrol Escorts [Gessir, Burdina, Dasrut]
  • Notes: 21 ships total
Task Force: Royal (the Gorn Task Force)
-Mission: Resolve [Militarist Foreign Policy: 75/300] and [Distant Stars: 0/100] tags on Gorn. If a [Cardassian Influence: 0/100] tag emerges, resolve that tag as well.
-Commander: Leaniss Larai - May add one additional member fleet frigate to this task force, separate from other ships called up [adds Amarkian Centaur-B]
2324.Q1Ships:
  • Explorers: 1 Starfleet Excelsior-A [Avandar (B)], 1 Amarkian Riala-A [Riala]
  • Cruisers: 2 Rigellian Turtleships, 2 Starfleet Renaissances [Revival, Haquita Nin]
  • Frigates: 4 Amarkian Centaur-B, 1 STO Centaur-B,in 2324.Q3 add 1 Kepler [Nolaeis]
  • Notes: TF is 11 ships strong; 12 ships in 2324.Q3.
TF Goodfoot
Mission: Affiliate Ur'razzi
Commander: Vol Chad – Faster experience gain for ships in squadron.
2324.Q1 Ships
  • Explorers: 1 Starfleet Excelsior [Excalibur]
  • Cruisers: 1 STO Audacious Cruiser, 1 Starfleet Constellation-A [Stalwart (B)]
  • Frigates: 2 Starfleet Centaur-B [Zephyr (B), Harmony], 1 Kepler [Sanvor], 2 Rigellian Oda-Gach Cutters
    Notes: 8 Ships
TF Dreaming
Mission: Resolve [Alienmodes of Communication and Thought: 0/300 and Cosmozoan Lifeform] tagson Dreamer Collective.
Commander: Pavel Chekhov - Nullifies the first 2pts of crew casualties per year, reroll the first failed Away Team Combat each year

2324.Q1 Ships
  • Explorers: 1 Starfleet Excelsior [Odyssey]
  • Cruisers:1Gaeni Tech-Cruiser-A
  • Frigates: 2 Starfleet Centaur-B [Talaxana, Starlight], 2 Kepler [Hypatia, Kepler], 2 Honiani Monastery
    Notes: 8 Ships
TF Chorus
Mission: Resolve [Great Power Ambitions: 0/300] and [Distant Stars: 0/100] tags on Ittick-Ka, with an eye to eliminating their determination to conquer all other species.
Commander: Sabek - ????? (picked for his reasonable P and high Insight)

2324.Q1 Ships
  • Explorers: 1 Starfleet Excelsior-A [Opportunity], 1 Caitain Excelsior-As [Hrvass]
  • Cruisers: 1 STO Audacious Cruiser
  • Frigates: 1 Starfleet Centaur-B [Whale], 2 Indorian Centaur-B, 1 Caldonian Centaur-B [Nocodon]
  • In 2324.Q3: Add1Kepler [fom Gaalv]

TF Righteous
Mission: Resolve the Distant Stars and Serfdom tags on the Righteous Allupii Empire, securing potential for a further relationship.
Commander: ????
2324.Q1 Ships
  • Explorers: 1 Starfleet Excelsior-A [Pleezirra (B)],1 Caitian Excelsior-A [Nisharr]
  • Cruisers:1STO Audacious Cruiser,
  • Frigates:1 Starfleet Centaur-Bs[Yukikaze (B)], 1 STO Centaur-B, 1 Amarki Centaur-B, 1 Amarkian Anacail,1 Kepler [Lyflam]
  • Notes: 8 Ships
 
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Himmelhand said:
Can/should we push the Hishmeri towards confronting the Imelak now when the Pact is distracted?
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This is plausible but morally abhorrent because when the Hishmeri go for the Imelak, one of those species is going to be wiped out.

Himmelhand said:
  • Can we solicit the Ittick-ka to intervene and protect a fellow wanderer in the dark forest?
  • Can we contact the Allupii and seek aid in some fashion? This is going to be their best chance for quite some time to push back against the Pact.
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No. Vote for Ittick-ka and Allupii task forces next deployment vote!
 
Briefvoice said:
How much of a selling point do you want to make, "If you join, you might randomly find yourself embroiled in a war over a people you've never met hundreds of light years away."
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That's almost the entire point, actually. The Federation is a grown up military alliance. The point of joining is that members can be randomly embroiled over other people hundreds of light years away. And they can embroil themselves in yours. It's literally one of the main selling points.
 
Raw90 said:
And if we send it, and they find that there's nothing? We're in the same position as before, except the Chrystovians have already been conquered.
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MTB said:
1) Cardassians don't allow entry because of 'operational security and too dangerous'.
2) Cardassians allow entry to select planets. Hard S checks to find anything not matching propaganda (for that we'd had to visit unallowed to visit planets)
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Then we're not automatically at war, and the Cardassians are reminded that their neighbors are paying attention. A few months of prep time will benefit the Cardassians, but will also allow the Federation, ISC and HoH to more effectively consolidate their efforts. And who knows? Maybe the Cardassians are on the level for a change.
 
How much of the Amarkia navy would join a TF to liberate Bajor and if needed advance towards the Chrystovian from there?
 
Steven Kodaly said:
Then we're not automatically at war, and the Cardassians are reminded that their neighbors are paying attention. A few months of prep time will benefit the Cardassians, but will also allow the Federation, ISC and HoH to more effectively consolidate their efforts. And who knows? Maybe the Cardassians are on the level for a change.
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The question is, is this a plan that follows from an "intervene" vote or the plan that follows from an "non-intervene" vote? "Sending in inspectors" sounds an awful lot like one of the limited number of options that will be left if we opt not to do a major intervention.
 
Steven Kodaly said:
Then we're not automatically at war, and the Cardassians are reminded that their neighbors are paying attention. A few months of prep time will benefit the Cardassians, but will also allow the Federation, ISC and HoH to more effectively consolidate their efforts. And who knows? Maybe the Cardassians are on the level for a change.
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... you make this kind of announcements when the war already started - "since 4:30h in the morning, we are firing back" style. A few months from now the military part of the Chrystovian war might well be concluded.
 
Simon_Jester said:
don't want to crush the Cardassians. I want to put them in a position where they can choose whether to abandon their plans to invade the Chrystovians, accept a compromise solution, or fight a war where they risk getting crushed.
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My position is much simpler: I don't want us to get into a war. The only thing we can do is threaten war, and the Cardassians are certain to call our bluff. What then? After we've disbanded all our TFs and thinned our sector response to sit on the border, and they refuse to leave the Chrystovians, what then? Do we hope the council will vote for war? Do we wait for the HoH to sabotage something and provoke conflict? Or are we just going to sit there looking like paper tigers? Meanwhile we will start failing event (and emergency) responses while several possible conflicts and crisis events grow to be ever more likely.
Random Member said:
What's the point of playing as the Federation if you can't even be idealistic?
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The time to be idealistic was (in-game) years ago. We pragmatically decided that, if we just ignored them, we'd avoid the possibility of war. Instead, war is much more likely, especially if we try to intervene. The idealistic choice is to do everything possible to prevent situations like this from happening again.
 
In thinking about this... I view it as us having no choice. Look at what Cardassia has done to Bajor. Are there going to be any guarantees the same won't happen to the Chrystovian Confederacy? There is a moral imperative here, that the Federation must intervene in the Chrystovian invasion in order to defend them. Because what would we look like, if we stood idly by, and let the Chrystovians be conquered and similar crimes to what has happened in Bajor would happen in Chrystovia? I urge that we must intervene in the invasion, and so I vote in favor of intervening in the invasion to defend them.

[X] We should intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.
 
I guess its fortunate that Enterprise is in Earth Orbit right now since sending her will send a big message to the Cardassians that we are serious this time about stopping them. I still think we should not go to war with the Cardassians over this but I am thinking that the Votes are going to go for the war option this time.
Adhoc vote count started by Glassware on Jul 6, 2018 at 10:48 AM, finished with 217 posts and 71 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 6, 2018 at 10:52 AM, finished with 130 posts and 39 votes.
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Forgothrax said:
Analysis:

As previously, we are probably best off using our affiliate diplomacy roll to buttress affiliates/allies and pushing only where necessary. Those at the top of the list are still the Honiani (may require a push, may not), Laio and Ked Paddah (no tag issues), and the Ashidi (major tag issues). Yrillians are Affiliates now, which is excellent news. The importance of pushing them drops significantly as of now because we have guaranteed free rolls, although I can see a definite bonus to pushing them so they hit Ally level and we have them secured with a defensive treaty.

As for others...

-Sydraxians are actually fairly close to affiliating. 24 points and we get them onboard. Definitely worth a push. Big tag issue for membership, but that's far in the future.

-Similarly, Gretarians are fairly close (40 points). That's two pushes. Also big membership tag, but that's not a big deal at present.

-OSA: Need to deal with the Harmony, ugh. That's going to be 3+ diplopushes.

-Chrystovians: Still have the issue we can't defend them.

-Licori: Definitely need to push the heck out of them, but they're actually not that far off.

-Shanpurr: Easy to affiliate and ally, but membership will be hella hard.

-Hishmeri: Fucking Eternal Empire. Maybe that'll drop off after we take out Hayant. Otherwise, they're easy to grab.

-Ittick-ka: Well, we can at least get them. Lots of tags tho.

-Sotaw are actually fairly easy to grab, surprisingly. Should do that.

-Lamarck: Ugh, that's a fuckton of tags. And they're not that valuable.

-Bajorans: As above.

-Bolians: Relatively easy grab.

-Breen: Ow, lots of tags and low starting relationship.

-Gorn: So they aren't a major power confirmed, and reachable, but still lots of tags.

-League of Independent Felis: Low starting and Horizon influence, ugh, but still reachable.

Personally, I would probably push Honiani (if they aren't there with affiliate roll), Licori, Sydraxians, and Muuyozi. If we don't have to do Honiani I would probably go after the Breen or Felis so we don't take a failed roll and get Sydraxians 2.0. It might be wise to do both and drop Licori.
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Hmmmm. Opinions have changed, I suppose.
 
[X] We should not intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.

Not this time we wait and prepare and get the ambys and comets out.
Adhoc vote count started by silverwolf on Jul 6, 2018 at 10:54 AM, finished with 224 posts and 74 votes.
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Briefvoice said:
Hmmmm. Opinions have changed, I suppose.
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Context is everything. At the time, the EE crisis was absorbing our resources and there was a nonzero chance Hayant would reinforce the Cardassians. We were also still contesting the GBZ and had not yet forced the Cardassians into retreat.

As of now, we've added more and stronger units to our forces, we've consolidated the GBZ, killed Hayant (still the right decision), and we are in a much better place to risk general war. I doubt the Cardassians would've been stopped by affiliation back then any more than now, because the strategic picture hasn't changed-- the Chrystovians are still 2 months away from our closest affiliate and all the efforts in the world wouldn't have helped. If they would be willing to call a bluff now, they would have then.
 
[X] We should intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.

This at least gives us some options, even if it's just escorting refugees as they flee Chrystovian space. The other way means we sit on our hands and do literally nothing.
 
The Sandman said:
[X] We should intervene in the Chrystovian invasion.

This at least gives us some options, even if it's just escorting refugees as they flee Chrystovian space. The other way means we sit on our hands and do literally nothing.
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I don't think that's true. Not intervening leaves highly limited options, but stuff like accepting refugees is still on the table. If you're voting "intervene" because you want to be able to accept refugees, that's not necessary.
 
Something to consider:

Given that we had, until now, not cared about Chrystovians at all, that there are no supply links between their space and ours and the fact that invasion is actively ongoing, there is actually very little chance of us to prevent Chrystovian occupation. This has been stated in update itself; we would basically have to drop everything now and send the team, without any backup, and hope for the best. It's doubtful they can hold out long enough for us to reach them...at which point we will have to liberate their worlds directly.

I want people to consider this carefully. Because if Cardassians don't back down, two things will happen simultaneously:

- Our task force will be isolated in hostile territory, with limited chances to resupply and enemies on all sides while possibly having limited numbers.
-We will enter a full industrial war with Cardassia

In event you missed what Klingon-Romulan war looked like: It ended with massive devastation across both states, with most of their fleet destroyed. Klingons went starving for a bit, because their industrial base was hit that hard.

We will be facing the same thing. The same kind of intense conflict. In situation where we are tied elsewhere, the HoH cannot be trusted and our own border is in many places not secure. Keep in mind that with exception of Amaraki, almost all of our Cardassian-ward members are strongly opposed to war, and doubt if they can stop determined Cardassian assault.

This will mean no more 5YMs. Likely little or no Task Forces. We are going to be put decades behind by this, in a situation where we aren't yet in good position (Keplers, Comets and Ambassador waves have not materialized...yet). Instead, we will be fighting a war of questionable purpose, with ill-defined objective, over a species that we have historically found questionable.

Because make absolutely no mistake: if we are to "save" Chrystovians, we must be ready to commit to a war. Our task force will not prevent Chystovians from being essentially beaten. We might, at best, relieve their worlds as they are getting invaded on the ground. The only way for us to make Cardassians reconsider is general advance through all fronts, likely towards Bajor. It is folly to believe otherwise.
 
Briefvoice said:
I don't think that's true. Not intervening leaves highly limited options, but stuff like accepting refugees is still on the table. If you're voting "intervene" because you want to be able to accept refugees, that's not necessary.
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And when the Cardies intercept the refugee convoys?

Like, do you really think they'll let any more slaves escape than they're forced to?
 
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