To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Just as an aside, does anyone else get vibe of Alpha Centuri->Isle of the Deep from this?
Not a perfect match, but it is a giant sea-borne monster with ranged attacks and drops resources on defeat.
(Admittedly with less worms chewing on your brain)
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- Actually pretty lost
That we know of.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Plus, as a Bayesian thing, when a sufficently improbable random event occurs, it's logical to respond the same way you would if there were an underlying cause.
STRICTLY MADE UP NUMBERS FOLLOW.
Suppose there were only a 1/100 chance of all these failures clustering in one of our sectors like this. In 1000 possible parallel universes, there might be, say, 970 universes in which nothing unusual happens in Tellar Sector. There'd be 10 parallel universes where failures cluster in Tellar Sector... but there's also, say, 20 parallel universes where something in Tellar Sector is futzing with us. There could be a score of possible causes, all with a one in a thousand chance of happening, versus the obvious 1% chance of "it's just randomness."
However, given that we live in a universe where Tellar Sector events keep failing, the odds of something being weird in Tellar Sector aren't 1% or 2% or 3%. They're, like, two-to-one.
STRICTLY MADE UP NUMBERS WERE MADE UP PURELY TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT, AND DO NOT REFLECT ANY RIGOROUS CALCULATION OF THE PROBABILITY OF SERIAL EVENT FAILURES
The operating principle here is "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time is enemy action." Sure, sometimes you waste a bit of effort dealing with cases where the third time really was coincidence, but it's a reasonable precaution.
So I think we should send an Excelsior or another Rennie to Tellar Sector. You never know, it might well accomplish some useful flag-showing and convince the Tellarite politicians that we actually are at least trying to do something, regardless of whether the next few events succeed or fail.
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So is it just me or does anyone else think that Harmony's pre-crime system combined with extreme punishments is designed to occasionally produce extremely violent crimes?
The crimes are striking enough to send fear and terror into the population but rare enough for the people to believe their government's draconian law enforcement is working. This results in people being unwilling to oppose the loss of their rights since it's clearly the only thing keeping them safe from these violent maniacs. It's a rather effective method of control.
Well, the Horizon captain even admits that their system is prone to cause escalation of violence in any crime that gets committed.
But I think the other fridge horror of the Harmony justice system, is that it is predicated on a mechanism which precludes any sort of privacy. In order for their crime prediction system to work, everyone has to be monitored by constant surveillance. At the very minimum, you are being watched every minute of the day, in every activity you perform, no matter how intimate. You have no secrets from the State, except the ones you keep to yourself and never breathe a word of aloud, ever. And maybe even that's not enough...
Consider that this is a universe where telepathy is proven to exist. A universe where mind reading can be duplicated by technology. How can a behavior prediction system be "fool proof"? Well, if we can read one's mind, that seems to be a likely answer.
Though, I suppose it's odd that they would punish criminals with death rather than mind-rewriting... Or perhaps, it's all the same to their legal definitions. The death of the personality might as well be the death of the person, after all.
Finally, we have to ask the question... who watches the watchers? Who runs this behavior prediction system? Who administrates it? Who maintains it? Is it the Horizonites, who are first among equals over the other races of their confederation? Or are they also under its control?
But I think the other fridge horror of the Harmony justice system, is that it is predicated on a mechanism which precludes any sort of privacy. In order for their crime prediction system to work, everyone has to be monitored by constant surveillance. At the very minimum, you are being watched every minute of the day, in every activity you perform, no matter how intimate. You have no secrets from the State, except the ones you keep to yourself and never breathe a word of aloud, ever. And maybe even that's not enough...
Consider that this is a universe where telepathy is proven to exist. A universe where mind reading can be duplicated by technology. How can a behavior prediction system be "fool proof"? Well, if we can read one's mind, that seems to be a likely answer.
Though, I suppose it's odd that they would punish criminals with death rather than mind-rewriting... Or perhaps, it's all the same to their legal definitions. The death of the personality might as well be the death of the person, after all.
Finally, we have to ask the question... who watches the watchers? Who runs this behavior prediction system? Who administrates it? Who maintains it? Is it the Horizonites, who are first among equals over the other races of their confederation? Or are they also under its control?
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
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- Trumpistan
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- He/Him
I can't. Stop, this is too much. My stomach hurts from laughing.
OTP our most cantankerous captain and the most naïvely curious.
Pretty sure she's a Rear Admiral these days.
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- They/Them
I was hoping that Thuir had discreetly hooked up with that Betazoid ambassador from your omake back when, actually
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- Australia
Pictured below: Horizon mind checks in progress
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
OH MY GOD THE HORIZON GOT TO THE TOFII !?
NOOOO!
NOOOO!
I thought the ambassador was male and didn't think Thuir swung that way?
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
There was an omake the the federation was an escaped self-replicating sociological/memetic experiment.
Maybe the the Harmony leaders are now as much victims of a self-perpetuating system of fear and control as any other in the polity.
*shrugs*
"If I do not act in accordance with the system, automatic system prompts will send people to help me, and if they fail, personality death."
Maybe an AI was created to run a society and to learn how to do it better, so it ran a society, and found ways to do it better, by seeing what people needed (by looking into their brains), putting the needs of the many above the needs of the few, accepting what harm could not be removed (yet), and then using that harm to at least stop others from commiting harmful acts.
I mean, after a few decades of the AI directing research that it then finds very useful in ways that are not in the design brief -> Man-machine interface for space!locked-in syndrome? Mind reading device.
Augments (and the Harmony of Horizon are big on their tech augments, how helpful!) that can write to the brain, or just constant memetic images (but this tech is still clunky, hence real criminals - if they want to scare people, just use fake ones in the media).
Maybe the the Harmony leaders are now as much victims of a self-perpetuating system of fear and control as any other in the polity.
*shrugs*
"If I do not act in accordance with the system, automatic system prompts will send people to help me, and if they fail, personality death."
Maybe an AI was created to run a society and to learn how to do it better, so it ran a society, and found ways to do it better, by seeing what people needed (by looking into their brains), putting the needs of the many above the needs of the few, accepting what harm could not be removed (yet), and then using that harm to at least stop others from commiting harmful acts.
I mean, after a few decades of the AI directing research that it then finds very useful in ways that are not in the design brief -> Man-machine interface for space!locked-in syndrome? Mind reading device.
Augments (and the Harmony of Horizon are big on their tech augments, how helpful!) that can write to the brain, or just constant memetic images (but this tech is still clunky, hence real criminals - if they want to scare people, just use fake ones in the media).
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- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
#ThuirSwingsRedshirtSafety
Something I've been meaning to ask for a while, @OneirosTheWriter and assorted Co-GMs:
Obsolete Technology seems to be suffering from Schizophrenia.
Lamarack and Yizgisi have broke Warp-1 and don't have Warp at all respectively so it makes sense that they have 100 and 300 Tags respectively.
But the Vermillions have been specifically stated to have NX-era technology, 2150s technology. If anything they should have a 100 Tag instead of 300.
Obsolete Technology seems to be suffering from Schizophrenia.
Lamarack and Yizgisi have broke Warp-1 and don't have Warp at all respectively so it makes sense that they have 100 and 300 Tags respectively.
But the Vermillions have been specifically stated to have NX-era technology, 2150s technology. If anything they should have a 100 Tag instead of 300.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
I agree with the idea that we should Put an Excelsior or an Excelsior-A in the Tellar sector for a year. If something crops up we can transfer the ship to wherever its needed the most.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Leslie:If this is just Landru writ large all over again, all we need to do is to find a way to fish Kirk out of the Nexus and throw him at it.
"Urgh. Third weirdest day of my life. But no, these Horizon bastards seem a lot smoother than Landru. It took about five minutes to figure out something was badly wrong on Beta III. These guys at least know how to hide it."
Omake - The End of Major Combat Operations - Night
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
The End of Major Combat Operations
Avandar was an exciting posting, to be sure. Not in the "hottest Excelsior outside the Explorer Corps" sense that had made her famous. The ship went to Red Alert at least once a day in the GBZ, sometimes more. Branwen's post was third-seating Tactical on the battle bridge, passing up important bits of data picked out from the sensors to the first seater, who would bring them to the attention of the person commanding Battle Bridge. Actually, it didn't bother her much. It wasn't particularly exciting or important duty, and wouldn't be unless there was a large battle. Even then, unless an admiral was aboard, she was duplicating a function on the bridge. It was a big step down from Rangering about the wilds of Vail, but a comfortable one. The overall level of stress and paranoia was considerably lower. She could handle this.
What really set her off was that Avandar's Captain, knowing they had a Yan-Ros Ranger aboard, had drafted her as a bodyguard for away missions. And if the wilds of Vail were threatening, so was the possibility of imminent contact with Cardassian infantry. For that matter, so was the mere presence of a Starfleet Captain. Ensigns did not, in the course of normal events, interact with the Captain. Certainly not to this degree. And losing the Captain would be...very bad.
"So Ensign, your thoughts?"
"On the mission, sir?" Branwen's eyes scanned the horizon line again, then started working their way inward. There were a few planets in the GBZ that had hosted life, but didn't anymore; two or three that had hosted intelligent life even. Even here, the archeologists got the occasional chance to play.
"It's a start."
Archeology, at least as Branwen understood it, was an extension of "Not Touching Things 101"; leave the artifact where you found it and call for someone who had better training. "The Gabriel Catastrophe theory is...not the most comforting idea. But it's always better to know." She exchanged a nod with one of the science department petty officers as they walked past.
"And it's still too early for conclusions?"
"For good ones, at least." Branwen paused a moment, staring at an outcropping of rock a hundred meters away. Being attacked by one of Vail's wild animals was a factual impossiblity here, but some shapes and patterns would trigger a reaction in a Ranger until the day they died. "Fortunately we seem to have time to let things develop."
"Is that a hint of regret about missing Forty-Five?"
Branwen made a noise of disbelief. "That's a bit much action even for an ex-Ranger, sir."
They stopped and conferred with the lieutenant leading the archeology team for several minutes before continuing. "But you're not going to fulfill the dream of ensigns since before spaceflight, and be able to tell the captain to shut up and get behind you."
"I don't think you'd actually make that necessary, sir." The safe, diplomatic response, and really the only sane response.
"I was an ensign once too. I remember what it was like. So you are hopeful about the Council negotiations, then?"
"Probably less than the Ops planners are, sir." Branwen glanced over at the Captain. "Actually I do have one reservation, sir."
"Oh?"
Branwen considered her phrasing for a few moments. "Starfleet is not the only entity that's had to tie up a lot of their ships in defense here. Admiral Ainsworth and Admiral ka'Sharren made it clear that borders can be crossed in two directions. The Cardassians will also be happy to get their ships back. But I worry that when our war ends, someone else's will start a little bit later."
Avandar was an exciting posting, to be sure. Not in the "hottest Excelsior outside the Explorer Corps" sense that had made her famous. The ship went to Red Alert at least once a day in the GBZ, sometimes more. Branwen's post was third-seating Tactical on the battle bridge, passing up important bits of data picked out from the sensors to the first seater, who would bring them to the attention of the person commanding Battle Bridge. Actually, it didn't bother her much. It wasn't particularly exciting or important duty, and wouldn't be unless there was a large battle. Even then, unless an admiral was aboard, she was duplicating a function on the bridge. It was a big step down from Rangering about the wilds of Vail, but a comfortable one. The overall level of stress and paranoia was considerably lower. She could handle this.
What really set her off was that Avandar's Captain, knowing they had a Yan-Ros Ranger aboard, had drafted her as a bodyguard for away missions. And if the wilds of Vail were threatening, so was the possibility of imminent contact with Cardassian infantry. For that matter, so was the mere presence of a Starfleet Captain. Ensigns did not, in the course of normal events, interact with the Captain. Certainly not to this degree. And losing the Captain would be...very bad.
"So Ensign, your thoughts?"
"On the mission, sir?" Branwen's eyes scanned the horizon line again, then started working their way inward. There were a few planets in the GBZ that had hosted life, but didn't anymore; two or three that had hosted intelligent life even. Even here, the archeologists got the occasional chance to play.
"It's a start."
Archeology, at least as Branwen understood it, was an extension of "Not Touching Things 101"; leave the artifact where you found it and call for someone who had better training. "The Gabriel Catastrophe theory is...not the most comforting idea. But it's always better to know." She exchanged a nod with one of the science department petty officers as they walked past.
"And it's still too early for conclusions?"
"For good ones, at least." Branwen paused a moment, staring at an outcropping of rock a hundred meters away. Being attacked by one of Vail's wild animals was a factual impossiblity here, but some shapes and patterns would trigger a reaction in a Ranger until the day they died. "Fortunately we seem to have time to let things develop."
"Is that a hint of regret about missing Forty-Five?"
Branwen made a noise of disbelief. "That's a bit much action even for an ex-Ranger, sir."
They stopped and conferred with the lieutenant leading the archeology team for several minutes before continuing. "But you're not going to fulfill the dream of ensigns since before spaceflight, and be able to tell the captain to shut up and get behind you."
"I don't think you'd actually make that necessary, sir." The safe, diplomatic response, and really the only sane response.
"I was an ensign once too. I remember what it was like. So you are hopeful about the Council negotiations, then?"
"Probably less than the Ops planners are, sir." Branwen glanced over at the Captain. "Actually I do have one reservation, sir."
"Oh?"
Branwen considered her phrasing for a few moments. "Starfleet is not the only entity that's had to tie up a lot of their ships in defense here. Admiral Ainsworth and Admiral ka'Sharren made it clear that borders can be crossed in two directions. The Cardassians will also be happy to get their ships back. But I worry that when our war ends, someone else's will start a little bit later."
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The thought did cross my mind actually, so it's not just you.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Cheron is technically veteran.
There was that confusion about whether one of the requisitioned Centaur-As was being refit into C-B pattern - did that ever get resolved?
Either way, we could try to replace one or both of these C-As with C-Bs.
AKuz
Been Better
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- A Rising Tide of Horrors
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- She/Her
100 level tags mean minor things that get in the way of them being capable of cooperating with us, something like distance or outside influence fits here. Generally things that make them go "But Federation cooperation is impractical". This is usually blocking things that would prevent them from going "Hey, Federation is neat"
300 level tags are things tend towards minor social or systematic issues. Something that that might take a while but wouldn't be too onerous for a people. Teaching up and building infrastructure, or generally something that takes time. This is usually in order to align them with us politically and make them capable of operating on equal footing militarily.
500 generally means it will take complete social restructuring resisted by a large or influential segment of the population, usually to bring them in line with Federation values before membership.
Multiple 100 level tags just means that that a 300 or 500 level tag blocks association on our end because slavery or racism or something.
Also: Tags with similar names but different values are entirely possible:
100 level obsolete tech is "They need training to bring them up to speed and their ships would be a liability in battle"
300 level obsolete tech is "They have to relearn from almost first principles but the base is fine. And their ships canbot ever see combat"
500 is "They need to be introduced to entire branches of science we take for granted and it's almost easier to just start with children than unteach and reteach the adults. Also: Someone could conquer them with a Runabout and a spicy packet of chips"
Or
100 slavery is "Yeah abolition is mostly the formal wiping away of a few remaining archaic traditions we were already kinda embarrassed about."
300 slavery is "Slavery is a key part of our economy but it is a bit of a moral hazard we can't see a way out of"
500 slavery is "Wait. Isn't slavery fundamental to civilisation?"
All that said I can't remember why the Lamarckians only have 100 level obsolete tech
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I would assume that the Vermillions tech issue is that they are squid people. They need liquid environment, which would probably cause a lot of issues if they were to integrate with our air breathing/land dwelling population. Imagine how much work it would take to make a standard computer run perfectly when submerged in water. Not just waterproofed, but actually capable of working when its filled with water.
Hell, just think how different their toilet technology must be...
Hell, just think how different their toilet technology must be...
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Slavery, I can totally get the 100/300/500 division of tags.
But for obsolete tech? I don't see why any of these reasons would preclude affiliation for a polity. I can understand different levels/types/etc of handling obsolete tech, such that 100 represents easy to address while 500 represents the opposite. However, that should be orthogonal with affiliation to a certain extent.
The problem here is that the tag level is tied to the main relation level, such that 300 relation level can only have 300 level tags. The workaround for slavery was to split the 500 level tag into multiple 100 level tags to prevent affiliation. But the same can't necessarily be done with obsolete technology - you can't have, e.g. a 100 level tag blocker at the 300 main relation level.
The closest you could get would be something like:
Lamarckians: x/100
-[Obsolete Technology: x/100] - just reached warp tech
-[Obsolete Technology: x/300] - has had warp tech for a while but substantially behind Federation tech
AKuz
Been Better
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- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Obsolete tech is just a generic term, you do see specific tags when it's actually a specific issue.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I know, I was drawing a parallel with how the slavery tags got split up. Namely, we had a 500 level tag split up into:
-[Slavery I: 0/100]
-[Slavery II: 0/100]
-[Slavery III: 0/100]
-[Slavery IV: 0/100]
-[Slavery V: 0/100]
Similarly, we could "split" up a tag like this:
-[Obsolete Technology I: x/100]
-[Obsolete Technology II: x/300]
That said, that wouldn't work out quite right for the Lamarkians, as there is no such 400 level obsolete tech tag to split, and they already have other "obsolete techs" of sorts: 100-level Limited Stellar Presence and 300-level Limited Stellar Ability.
In fact, an easy "consistency fix" across Lamarkians, Vermillions, and Yizgisi would just be to switch the "Obsolete Technology" and "Limited Stellar Ability" for the Lamarkians:
Lamarckians: 100/100
-[Limited Stellar Presence: 31/100]
-[Obsolete Technology: 0/100]
-[Limited Stellar Ability: 0/300]
-[Unequal Distribution of Wealth: 0/300]
-[No Unified Government: 10/500]
could be changed to:
Lamarckians: 100/100
-[Limited Stellar Presence: 31/100]
-[Limited Stellar Ability: 0/100]
-[Obsolete Technology: 0/300]
-[Unequal Distribution of Wealth: 0/300]
-[No Unified Government: 10/500]
This way, all would have 300-level "Obsolete Technology" tags.
Or alternatively, could just rename Lamarckians "Obsolete Technology" tag to do away with the perception of inconsistency.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
"Maybe there is nothing wrong with the Horizon", they said. "Maybe we're just being paranoid", they said.
Wanna bet the things we find out are only going to get worse?
Wanna bet the things we find out are only going to get worse?
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