Let's please do 4 diplo pushes.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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That was for sector events.
Quite probably, though apparently a lot less so than combat, hull and shields. There isn't all that much left they could influence except evasion, which is pretty rare, and defence 1 BoP doing it indicates that it's probably not the only thing that matters for that either (maybe scale - defence?)
The crew experience argument doesn't apply for those though.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
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What's your plan with the UP yards in 2308?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
That's true but I don't see how that matters either? Allowing our sector defence fleet elements to have a much greater chance of reacting to events I would have presumed is useful you know?
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
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- USA
I don't think we have enough info on what defense does for FYMs. Oneiros only talked about its impact on sector events:
edit: With that said, I do expect the "combination of speed, fuel reserves, stores, long-range sensor suite, long-range Comms" to matter significantly for FYMs.
edit: With that said, I do expect the "combination of speed, fuel reserves, stores, long-range sensor suite, long-range Comms" to matter significantly for FYMs.
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- somewhere
It's useful much in the way all stats are, not obviously a priority for making two points higher than the median.
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- Mid-Atlantic
A one-quarter delay in starting the ships might be preferable to asking for more resources we don't really need. Is that doable?
By the way, do you plan on addressing the point that it will take time after we start commissioning Rennies before we can realistically convince the Council we need yet another cruiser?
Honestly, I see no reason why, by 2320 or so, we couldn't design a cruiser on the Excelsior hull that has less crew AND better stats, given that by that point it'll be a 30-40 year old design we're improving on.
By the way, do you plan on addressing the point that it will take time after we start commissioning Rennies before we can realistically convince the Council we need yet another cruiser?
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I selected a lot of options that were maybes, would have to look at a build plan to determine resources but if we have PP to burn asking for a budget increase is good (though after diplo pushes and starbases and such). As for berths getting another berth would let us start refitting existing ships since that doesn't need crew and has a low cost.
We have three turns of events until the next snakepit so we may see other relation increases, I think one turn we had 2 or 3 for the Caitains so it can happen, and the past turn we had 4 different +25 boosts to relations. Starbase is a maybe, if we get another 10 pp outpost option I think that would be better. Still a lot depends on what new options appear, like how we had the additional intel assests show up for the first time and that was a must get. But yeah I definitely want to get another member next year. That does mean we need to make sure we keep increasing our defense from ships (the centaurs are adding 12 in two years so that is a good start). RBZ starbase would help, and more outposts if those are options.
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It helps make sure that we are making the right assumptions and that when we design a ship it does what we want it to do. Plus for me at least I love having information, the more (good) info I get the happier I am, though I am an IT orientation.
I will post the full sheet later, but:
3mt-A = Excelsior factory (Excelsior every 4 turns)
3mt-B = open for repairs and if/when we want to develop an Explorer prototype
1mt-A = Oberth factory (Oberth every 2 turns)
1mt-B = Reserved for Renaissance prototype (might be able to slip in a Centaur-A first)
EDIT: As our primary Cruiser team, I assume any Cruiser prototype would have to be built at UP.
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Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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[X] Plan Ambassadors, Spies and Escorts
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I considered it (the first version of my plan actually had Starfleet Science Academy on it) but people really want the SIGINT stuff in communications and I don't particularly disagree, that's a priority given what the Cardassians are doing. We might put the Daystorm Institute on it next year for a turn, depending on what if anything unlocks. Or the Starfleet Science Academy and the Andorian Academy picking up Communications once done with the low hanging fruits in shields.
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- USA
Yeah I want to get our counter intel up so we stop getting hit so bad, like that -100 to Sydraxian relations or missing the attack on the Amarki joining ceremony. Daystrom though would finish the other computer side in one year though so depending on what unlocks from finishing two of the computing installation techs.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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That or at least show the Cardies we're not toothless.
aledeth
The Flesh is Weak
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So you're saying research up to 2,400kt Cruiser Designs then do a Cruiser Design project to make a new 2,400kt Cruiser using the same Saucer and Secondary as the Excelsior? Or are you thinking that a refit program to turn our Excelsiors into Cruisers will appear at that point?
None of us that want a big Cruiser are advocating we start the design process until the Ambassador is in full production. That's looking to be at least 10 years, probably more before the idea is even floated to the Fed Council.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I really really hope we get to design ship refits and handle them within Starfleet in the future. There's only so much new ship design that we can actually make concrete over the course of this quest, and if we could design refits, that would double or triple the opportunities for ship design.
In-universe, it would make more sense to have refits being designed and researched in-house, rather than this apparently external and temporary ship refit design team.
My hope is that ship refit design is just being delayed until OneirosTheWriter gets the ship design spreadsheet in proper order, including crew costs and such. And so then he can design (heh) the ship refit mechanics with all the subtleties it entails, like how much reserve power and weight matters, what the extra cost of upgrading the warp core is, refit times, etc.
Right now, with the opaque and likely very WIP refit mechanics, it's understandable that Oneiros isn't ready to hand over control yet.
Also, on a slightly different tangent, I don't think we should trust the current "canon" stats for ships from 2330s or so onwards, because I'm pretty sure those numbers were generated on pretty old ship design spreadsheets, and Oneiros doesn't have a large obligation to keep the latest ship design spreadsheet consistent with these old numbers over time. Plus, they don't take into fact that Defense has been redefined, and so we get something ridiculous like Intrepid only have D5, despite being the fastest ship in the fleet and being designed explicitly as an actual long range explorer (and not just "long endurance explorer" like the slow Oberth).
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- Mid-Atlantic
Suffice to say, I hope that we will be permitted to redesignate the Excelsiors or some variant on them as our heavy cruiser, some time in the 2320s or '30s. Because that appears to be exactly what Starfleet actually did, some time between the movie era and the TNG era.
Exactly how this is implemented in gameplay terms, I do not feel an urgent need to speculate.
Until that time, I think we should settle for million ton cruisers, both to take advantage of a temporary bottleneck in our infrastructure caused by all the existing million ton berths, and to ensure we can provide adequate overall force numbers as the Federation expands.
Trying to request a third, separate class intermediate between the Renaissance and Excelsior is going to be an awkward political battle (unless we have ample evidence of the Rennie's inadequate size). It will strain our economy considerably. And the value of it will be reduced by the fact that it is, in effect, competing for useful 'slots' to fill with both the Excelsiors (which can serve as sector fleet flagships) and the Rennies (which are excellent utility cruisers and tough enough to look after themselves in a fight).
Exactly how this is implemented in gameplay terms, I do not feel an urgent need to speculate.
Until that time, I think we should settle for million ton cruisers, both to take advantage of a temporary bottleneck in our infrastructure caused by all the existing million ton berths, and to ensure we can provide adequate overall force numbers as the Federation expands.
Trying to request a third, separate class intermediate between the Renaissance and Excelsior is going to be an awkward political battle (unless we have ample evidence of the Rennie's inadequate size). It will strain our economy considerably. And the value of it will be reduced by the fact that it is, in effect, competing for useful 'slots' to fill with both the Excelsiors (which can serve as sector fleet flagships) and the Rennies (which are excellent utility cruisers and tough enough to look after themselves in a fight).
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I don't think it's going to be nearly as much a fight as you suggest.
At most we'd just see the following
- Request Start of Custom Cruiser project, receiving one-off boost of Research Points and go-ahead for some projects, 30pp
Okay, I have done some serious updates to my ship-building spreadsheet. As always, feel free to save your own copy and play with it. (Update list below.) In addition I took at hard look at our past EOY sheets and realized that I was being wildly optimistic about the amount of br/sr we'll get from Captain's Logs as well as the amount we spend on ship repairs. I have drastically reduced yearly "Event" income assumptions accordingly. In addition, taking into account past casualties I am assuming that we lose an average of O-.75, E-.75, T-.75 per year and Oex-.25, Eex-.25, and Tex-.25 per year. You can change that assumption as you please.
Conclusions
1. For the next ten years, we should stagger builds so only 1 Excelsior comes out per year and has to be crewed, with every 4th Excelsior going into the Exploration corps. That means we have no more than 4 Excelsior docks filled at any one time, which means big docks will be available for smaller ships or repairs. That's okay.
2. Cruisers will definitely need to take up a lot of slack for sector "anchor ships".
2. Crew is now the paramount resource limitation. It is critical we do an Academy Expansion next snakepit. Move it high up the priority list. Probably another one a few years after that.
3. A new small dock with be a "nice to have" in a few years but not a crisis priority.
Spreadsheet changes. (@Nix I know you're interested in these.)
1. All fields meant to be entered/altered by the user are now colored green for clarity.
2. On the Stats sheet you can now enter income changes year by year, both one-time changes and permanent changes in their respective columns. Be sure to make the change in the year in which it happens, and it will be added into the followed year's starting resources/start-of-year income. You can see I have an "assumptions" column where you can write why you think things will happen like they will. Income changes will continue to roll over to the following years; you need only note them once in the year in which the change happens.
Conclusions
1. For the next ten years, we should stagger builds so only 1 Excelsior comes out per year and has to be crewed, with every 4th Excelsior going into the Exploration corps. That means we have no more than 4 Excelsior docks filled at any one time, which means big docks will be available for smaller ships or repairs. That's okay.
2. Cruisers will definitely need to take up a lot of slack for sector "anchor ships".
2. Crew is now the paramount resource limitation. It is critical we do an Academy Expansion next snakepit. Move it high up the priority list. Probably another one a few years after that.
3. A new small dock with be a "nice to have" in a few years but not a crisis priority.
Spreadsheet changes. (@Nix I know you're interested in these.)
1. All fields meant to be entered/altered by the user are now colored green for clarity.
2. On the Stats sheet you can now enter income changes year by year, both one-time changes and permanent changes in their respective columns. Be sure to make the change in the year in which it happens, and it will be added into the followed year's starting resources/start-of-year income. You can see I have an "assumptions" column where you can write why you think things will happen like they will. Income changes will continue to roll over to the following years; you need only note them once in the year in which the change happens.
- Location
- Panama City
you sir, are awesome and deserve a reward for doing this. @OneirosTheWriter think you can give him a bonus relating to shipbuilding for this? And/or put this on the front page?
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