T3 shields are heavier, but have higher effect at the same crew and power cost. The L version isn't all that great and arguably a downgrade, but the M and H versions are pretty good. You should have seen my L6 design using T3 M shields.
Yes, we'll probably keep the Infectious Diseases Institute on Trauma Medicine. That should be irrelevant for this year's choice as 2330s Trauma Medicine isn't unlocked yet anyway, though.
That depends on whether we are going for a 2319 or 2323 generalist frigate. With a 2323 design we are pretty much set up for it automatically because that also requires all T3 frigate frames, the rest is much less of an issue.
I don't actually see any difference in the laid out plans between Prioritize Shields and Test Shields.
For the propulsion, the choices are better impulse engines, better fuel tanks, or quicker freighter construction. By the time it is researched, our freighter situation should hopefully be in hand.
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan Prioritize Shields
[X] [PROPULSION] Lor'Vela Orbital Drafting Bureau : 2320s Sublight Motion
I don't actually see any difference in the laid out plans between Prioritize Shields and Test Shields.
For the propulsion, the choices are better impulse engines, better fuel tanks, or quicker freighter construction. By the time it is researched, our freighter situation should hopefully be in hand.
Yup. Did we ever get that back after the revamp, or was it just removed entirely? Getting it had a not insignificant opportunity cost, so if it never returns I hope we get something else from it.
Yup. Did we ever get that back after the revamp, or was it just removed entirely? Getting it had a not insignificant opportunity cost, so if it never returns I hope we get something else from it.
Originally base shield regeneration was 1 unit per ship (with max shield strength being L * 10), 3 units with the shield regen tech. That was changed to 1% base shield regen, 3% with the shield regen tech. Recently shield regen bonuses were also added to some other higher tier shield techs, and enemy shield regen reductions to some weapon techs.
Originally base shield regeneration was 1 unit per ship (with max shield strength being L * 10), 3 units with the shield regen tech. That was changed to 1% base shield regen, 3% with the shield regen tech. Recently shield regen bonuses were also added to some other higher tier shield techs, and enemy shield regen reductions to some weapon techs.
So in the short-to-medium term it's a nerf, in the long term it's a minor buff when we hit 10L+, but by then ships will be doing enough damage that it's not a gamebreaking advantage. Fair enough.
Old shield regen was rather good but it would have quickly turned sour once our enemies reached that tech as everyone else would typically have higher numbers of ships than us.
Properly play-testing and balancing is very difficult in a quest But there are still ways and means...
So the campaign in the GBZ will be our chance to play test the Front system that I've been working on, that you've been seeing in the Romulan-Klingon War updates, and the Tactical Ops posts, but in actual operation. Nash (you) will be pushing down the front, detailing some of her forces to protect flank and rear, possibly detaching some to commerce raiding, definitely detaching some to protect her own supply lines, and having the option to yoink the engineering teams for support tasks.
Properly play-testing and balancing is very difficult in a quest But there are still ways and means...
So the campaign in the GBZ will be our chance to play test the Front system that I've been working on, that you've been seeing in the Romulan-Klingon War updates, and the Tactical Ops posts, but in actual operation. Nash (you) will be pushing down the front, detailing some of her forces to protect flank and rear, possibly detaching some to commerce raiding, definitely detaching some to protect her own supply lines, and having the option to yoink the engineering teams for support tasks.
The following is PURE SPECULATION. I am not the GBZ Admiral in charge. Feel free to argue how you would do it better - there are no right or wrong answers here until we get what Oneiros has decided the actual commanders have done.
The existing Starfleet Task Forces in the GBZ (I am assuming that the member fleets present are left on the defence and will not play a part in these festivities) are:
Assuming that 10 ships in the max effective size of a TF, but most Commodores more comfortable with a lower number (I don't know what the largest TF was in the Licori war, we have seen GBZ TF with at least 7 ships attached, using this to assume that a 9 ship task force is not out of bounds)
TF2 keeps to running convoy protection, it has one Blooded Centaur-A added to boost sensor capability.
TF1, 6 and 10 all have at least one Blooded Centaur-A as a Scout/Skirmish vessel - TF1 also has the lone Oberth
TF1 and 6 present assault forces, TF10 as a mobile reserve, to reinforce TF1 or TF6 in the event of heavy resistance, or as a interceptor group if a Pact Task Force tries to bull into our claimed space.
The following is PURE SPECULATION. I am not the GBZ Admiral in charge. Feel free to argue how you would do it better - there are no right or wrong answers here until we get what Oneiros has decided the actual commanders have done.
The existing Starfleet Task Forces in the GBZ (I am assuming that the member fleets present are left on the defence and will not play a part in these festivities) are:
Assuming that 10 ships in the max effective size of a TF, but most Commodores more comfortable with a lower number (I don't know what the largest TF was in the Licori war, we have seen GBZ TF with at least 7 ships attached, using this to assume that a 9 ship task force is not out of bounds)
TF2 keeps to running convoy protection, it has one Blooded Centaur-A added to boost sensor capability.
TF1, 6 and 10 all have at least one Blooded Centaur-A as a Scout/Skirmish vessel - TF1 also has the lone Oberth
TF1 and 6 present assault forces, TF10 as a mobile reserve, to reinforce TF1 or TF6 in the event of heavy resistance, or as a interceptor group if a Pact Task Force tries to bull into our claimed space.
Hm, here are the considerations I would make:
- First, the Oberth does not belong in a combat task force. Period. It is a net negative once in combat, and should be left to the rearguard forces so that we can shift other frigates to the front, especially the crucial Centaurs. The rearguard forces should be shuffled so that we extract good ships for forces expecting heavy combat. This isn't relevant to our current TF2 but for example, the Amarki are using the Centaur-A as convoy escort when it's better than their Calac and Brieca in Scout/Skirmish. Also the S5 is still useful in detecting infiltrated ships.
- Second, we have our allied forces to consider, and this attack would be utterly impossible without their participation. Without allied forces embedded in our task forces we lose in strength. Our allies also bring the best of our skirmish forces. Without them, the Konen likely exceed us in this battle stage.
- Third, it would be very very easy to invite defeat in detail on this campaign. The mobile reserve is probably the best way to handle this but cannot be slow ships. It must have the ability to quickly pivot and avoid being tied down and intercepted itself by blocking forces. Excelsiors and fast cruisers with a blooded scout are crucial, Mirandas may have to go to other fleets.
- Fourth, because we have yet to set up an appropriate role division, our skirmish lines are not really going to be ideal since we have so god damn many Mirandas (and pre-refit Briecas and Calacs) that will participate inappropriately. That means I would basically like to see at most three task forces divide the five Centaur-As and any allied ships appropriate to skirmishing (especially Apiata Stingers, Amarki Centaur-As, and Caitian Swarmers). Ideally we would have at least one S4 frigate per main fleet and at least three D3+ frigates per main fleet. If the Apiata are going for independent scouting and disruption operations again like they did against the Sydraxians, well, that's kind of dangerous, but at least they have good ships for it. I'd maybe ask them to loan us a Stinger or two.
- Fifth, it needs to be crystal clear that mutually supportive fleets is the only way to prevent defeat in detail.
It's all a question of what you can get the fleet ball to expose in the process, and how much you can intercept/damage while you are there. It isn't quite as easy as doomstacking in an RTS.
Yeah, but it shouldn't be harder than real life. And in real life, while cutting off an army on land from its supplies is very possible, cutting off a fleet at sea is much harder.
On operational timescales it can be done, but what works best is to have raiders lurking in the area that cripple supply lines for a prolonged period of time, or a major strike against a base that destroys its ability to service the ships.
Ships need supplies, but unless they've done something reckless and stupid, they won't sortie without plenty of fuel and other supplies to at least return home to a reasonably secure base. Hitting a point on the supply lines doesn't magically "turn off" the ships, it just forces the enemy fleet commander to turn around, retreat, and secure their own supply line before they take unacceptable losses to their logistics capability. And insofar as they DO take such losses, they just have to fall back further and further until they reach a base they can supply themselves at.
Now, this could potentially cause major havoc to our Gabriel Expanse fleet if the Cardassians somehow manage to 'ghost' a large force of raiders past Nash, if she BOTH leaves our rear area unsecured (unlikely IMO) AND doesn't detect the raiders trying to pass her (less unlikely).
But it doesn't result in all the ships being magically "shut off" and destroyed without a fight. Not in a quasi-realistic system, and if we were operating in a system so unrealistic, I'd expect us to know by now.
Supernovas can render planets between 50LY to 100LY away uninhabitable. We know Nash was planning to attack the Enio subsector. This is a 40LY, so being quite conservative, radius from there...
As you can see while we'd lose the Apiata it hurts the Cardassians far more then it does us. Especially since the closest worlds, and thus the ones with the least time to prepare, are Cardassian.
I got 50LY to 100LY from here. Also worth noting that supernovas top out at around 0.25C IIRC so it actually takes four times longer then that.
Basically, with Star Trek technology it really should be possible to shield a planet with some years to prepare, if only by putting slabs of rock a few meters thick in the appropriate orbits to form a 'shadow shield' between the planet and the incoming radiation when that radiation wave arrives. The classic "rogue planetoid" threat is arguably MORE dangerous simply because you can't stop it with a relatively weak barrier.
Yeah I'm using the term "mines" loosely. Given the vast distances involved and relatively tiny sizes of explosions, mines as they're traditionally thought aren't as practical anymore. I recall earlier discussion on how mines could be something like triggered photon torps with huge payloads, and we know that spotting mines isn't trivial from our Ixaria woes.
Agreed, but I had an underlying point. "Mines," even used loosely, connote freestanding explosive devices that can be seeded in place far in advance, and which do not engage a ship until it acts in such a way as to trigger them. A "minefield" is a form of trap, even if you lay it when the enemy is already nearby.
It doesn't seem like any remotely ordinary form of trap could have done to the Republic what we know was done. What seems more likely to have happened here was some sort of deliberate attack, in which the Cardassians or their allies specifically came hunting for the [i}Republic[/i], launched an attack of some kind that enabled them to precisely position explosive devices on the hull, disabling the ship's combat ability with a minimum-force approach.
It's a bit like the difference between laying out bear traps in hopes that a bear will stumble upon one, get trapped, and be rendered helpless... versus stalking the bear and shooting it in the back when it bends down to get a drink of water or something.
It's going to be fairly important to keep track of the differences between those two attack modes.
COLLIE BASE, GABRIEL BORDER ZONE, STARDATE 26668.9
"That was a hell of a sprint from Tellar, Jen," says Rear Admiral Nash Ka'Sharren, striding briskly through the narrow corridors of Collie base. "Commodore Wev and his staff are well welcome though. And the– the Starfleet Intelligence teams." Pegat Reynar from the Damage Review office was particularly welcome if anyone could find out what happened to Republic it would be him.
Captain Jennifer Zhang keeps pace with her former captain, only a very small amount of her idolization of the Andorian woman showing in her attentive expression. Only a small amount of starry eyed hero worship really, nothing too distracting, not at all. "Challorn is a good ship. I'm proud to command her." She pauses as the two women wait for a gaggle of ensigns to pass by. "Is it as bad as I've heard?" She says in a low voice as the junior officers turn a corner.
"Worse. Whole crew gone, looks like sabotage on our end, Republic may be unsalvageable. I'm putting together a counter attack." Nash looks around, almost guiltily, as she nears her office, "I haven't heard back from the Old Man yet. But everything is being pulled back from patrols. Regrouping. We'll be ready to go in two days. We'll save our people."
The words 'Whatever orders come in' are left unspoken.
The station doors hiss open as the two step into a waiting area, a single young you man is sitting attentively behind a desk and somehow contrives to straighten up even more ramrod straight as he sees his Admiral, "Ma'am. Word from Commodore McAdams: Task Force One is in formation and moving towards the rendezvous system."
"Thank you, Bernard." Ka'Sharren says with a casual smile, stepping through an interior set of doors. "I'll be in my office for a bit. Hold all my calls unless Admiral Sulu, or that nice N'Gir lady, is on the line."
The office beyond is still fairly spartan, unopened boxes are still piled on the floor and on shelves. On Nash's desk is another entirely different sort of boxes.
"Is that take out?" asks Zhang, as her Andorian superior waves absent mindedly at a chair, "That's… I think that's ramen." She frowns at another box as she sits down, "Is that half a pizza in the other box?!"
Nash shrugs, "Little Orion/Terran fusion place moved into the civilian section after the last expansion." she grabs a box labelled 'Neon Green Fusion' and pulls out a slice of cold pizza, "I got sick of canteen stuff after a while. Bernard introduced me to it. Good stuff."
She indicates the rest of the pizza with a blue hand, "Go on."
Zhang makes a half shrug as she takes a piece, "Challorn heads back tomorrow, after Atlas's teams clear her. I… I think I'd rather stay but and fight." the woman looks apologetic, "But we both know that Challorn has to be back in Tellar. I wouldn't be out her if Wev hadn't been just on Tellar and we were in the area. Good luck whatever happens, Ma'am."
Rear Admiral Ka'Sharren purses her lips for a moment in thought. "Jen. While you're here... do you mind me picking your brain for a bit?" Nash pushes boxes to the side of her desk to clear space for her deal's inbuilt screen. "If you had to hit the Cardassians now, how would you do it? I've always considered you and Sam to be the finest strategic planners that I've ever served with".
The Human woman tosses a half-eaten crust back into the half empty box it came from and, standing up to lean over the table, sets her fingers to work on the touch sensitive middle of the tablescreen.
"I know exactly what I'd do." When some captains get bored conducting patrols in the GBZ they unwind with music and poetry. Jen Zhang of USS Challorn deals with GBZ boredom by pushing starships around a computer screen, "To start with, it's a trap."
"Obviously."
"I'd bet that you're planning to break out of that trap through sheer firepower. Hammer through it with everything you have…" Zhang points at a star system on the screen. "Sweep out from Collie and up Enio, collect the gathered task forces and turn straight down towards 67. Force a battle. Make them pay. Lora and Deva all over again."
Nash starts, "I'm not that predictable, am I?!"
"Kinda. It's not a bad move. If you move fast enough and hard enough it doesn't matter what cunning trick the Cardassians think they have. You'll blow right through them." Zhang studies the map. "Risky though, they might counter attack or have something we haven't seen yet and we'd end up falling flat on our faces."
The Human captain fidgets with a loose lock of dark hair. "High risk, high reward. If the Cardies know that you're in charge, that's what they'll expect. Especially after Ainsworth's moves early on against the Sydraxians." She begins chewing absentmindedly on that loose lock of hair, "They're probably concentrated. Maybe using those Konen clients of theirs to set up a trap or act as reserves in a shock counter attack. Could even have quietly moved in Goshawnar reserves without us knowing"
Nash taps the icons for 'last known Konen positions'. "We know the Konen are psychic, like the Betazoids, so maybe some sort of mass psychic attack during a battle? Some sort of surprise." She makes a note on a PADD. "I'm going to request batches of Triptocytaline made up. Enough doses for senior staff at least. If something happens, just:" She mimes sticking a needle in her neck. "We'll feel sick, but it's better than getting turned into a puppet or whatever the Konen can do."
"We can't be certain, Triptocytaline isn't the most reliable and we've never tested it against Konen psychics." Zhang continues chewing on the tip of a lock of hair. "And if I recall correctly, sick is an understatement. Triptocytaline has a label in the toxicology index of "slightly healthier than being ordered to walk off a cliff". It's an emergency use counteragent only."
"And it'll be an emergency if we have to use it." points out the Rear Admiral.
"It can't hurt to be prepared," says Zhang with a tight frown. "Speaking of preparation, that's what I'd do in your shoes." She rearranges some symbols on the screen. "Wait a few months, gather reinforcements, then strike out precisely."
"We both know what Republic's crew are probably going through." Nash shakes her head, "We have to rescue them now."
"And then what? We trigger the Cardie trap and have them move the prisoners into Cardassian space?" Zhang shakes her head, "A major assault cannot recover our people unless you plan to go clear through to Cardassia Prime."
Nash looks briefly thoughtful.
"Hmm… that isn't an argument against an attack purely to show the Cardies who's boss."
"Right. Going by our Xenopsych people we need to give them a good whack across the snout for this," Zhang says, continuing to reorganize ships. "Which is a good argument for not rushing our response. Especially not before the election."
"What has that got to do with anything?" Nash asks in exasperation.
"It's... complicated." Zhang sighs, "The thing as I see it is that we simply can't conduct a campaign to get our people back unless it's part of an armistice of some sort. So we need to move carefully."
"Hmm. That's a very good point. Any rescue attempt would have to be a special operation." The Rear Admiral adds another note to her PADD saying simply 'comm Appleseed'.
"Right. Look at this," Zhang gestures to a freshly reorganized fleet deployment pattern on the tablescreen. "So, the way that I see it we have one massive, major strategic advantage over the Cardassians that they simply will never be able to match: geospatial information" she points specifically to the yellow line labelled "Badlands" that acts as the defacto border between the rimward edges of the Cardassian and Federation GBZ and runs down towards Bajor. "The Cardassians simply don't have the spare resources to investigate every anomaly in the GBZ. Their science vessels are split between supporting prospecting and searching out anomalies."
Ka'Sharren shakes her head, "The Konen are far better than the Cardassians at using stellar phenomenon for stealth though. Most of the time, the Cardassians just put up a navigational beacon telling their combat ships to avoid the area and then move on. The Konen are a little bit more tricksy."
"They can use them, yes, but they don't seem to be as good at understanding them. It's-" Zhang pauses to gather her thoughts, non-verbalized insights arraigning into simple sound waves, "It's a difference of mindset. From our intelligence the Konen vessels have similar sensor capabilities to us on their ships and they use those capabilities to set up traps and for other military purposes. But they don't seem to boldly go, not like us, they and the Cardassians start from military purposes and support that with science rather than the other way." Zhang twirls hair around her index finger, her face focused, "We will have the advantage because we don't have to think about finding out knowledge for military purposes, we simply already have it because we believe that knowledge is its own reward. And our thoughts turn to scientific solutions and advantages much more readily than Cardassians"
"Impressive! You've been taking Xenosych courses?" ask Nash
Zhang tries not to blush, "I've been taking extra courses through the VSA since I was in Honiani space. I wanted to make sure I didn't insult one of my hosts by accident." she gives a short laugh, "It has applications elsewhere too" she fidgets with the lid of a ramen box for a moment, "Anyway, you yourself know how we've used that science edge against the Cardassians before, like your masterstroke at 33 Fujit, I doubt that Konen are as good at us at understanding the nature of the anomalies." Zhang is briefly confused by the dark cloud that passes over Nash's face at the mention of one of her most impressive feats, "I think we can use that at a strategic scale and pull a Bolivar crossing the Alps moment on the Cardassians."
"Go on," gestures Nash, understanding the intent, if not the particular reference.
"Right" says Zhang, fiddling with a lock of black hair again. "First thing is, we use our heavier units to supporting scouting operations at the edge of Enio." Ships' codes move up on the screen. "We need this information anyway, but by using heavier units we are both slightly more obvious but also run less risk of single ships being picked off like poor Republic or Saratoga. This is honestly what I would do, if I was preparing for a full scale directly ahead push. Get information and protect ships, they know we're coming anyway, so it's no great loss. Get them used to the idea of us committing heavy metal to those areas in a push."
"And while I'm doing that dispatch more ships to study the Badlands?" Nash asks. She knows that Insight and Eclipse were already investigating the vast area of dangerous navigational anomalies purely out of scientific curiosity. It wouldn't be hard to slip another few ships, maybe Oberths, over without arousing Cardassian suspicion. They would expect that sort of thing from Starfleet.
"Yes, the Badlands change rapidly, safe routes decay fast." The captain remembers her own time on Challorn investigating the anomalous area. "But we can use short term predictions and heavy scouting to find a route through the area-"
"-And emerge by surprise near the Cardassian hub at 67." Nash says with a hint of glee.
"Or anywhere else in the area. 67 might still be too heavily defended if we fail to draw off their heavy warships."
"Of course." says the Admiral, "But that's not hard. They already 'know' that we are planning to sweep Enio. And all their traps would be in Enio too."
"Right." Zhang nods "My only worry is that only Starfleet crews have the right type of training to make the passage through the Badlands without taking damage-"
"-Even Starfleet ships are likely to take damage-"
"-but that could be of advantage too. We could detail the older and more vulnerable member fleet ships to stay behind to distract and defend against the Cardassians-"
"-we could pretend that our whole fleet is coming. Then split off our attack force at the subspace incline at…" Nash begins scrolling through system information as she recalls a small detail of information.
"44 Dorsata." Zhang says simply. She never forgets the details. "We use probes or shuttles to copy the attack force's emissions and keep them in the center of the 'Attack' fleet. The real force uses emissions masking and hiding near the Badlands to cover their approach to the crossing area while the 'Attack' fleet continues towards the edge of the Enio sector."
"Tell me again why you're not the Admiral and I the Captain?" asks Nash with a mock sigh.
"Because I'm holding out for the next Enterprise and you promised to give everyone else a chance for her big chair?" says Zhang, smiling sweetly.
"I hope you get her." Nash says with her own, bittersweet, smile as she looks back down at the deployments. "Hmm… even if we can't find a route through or something else comes up at the last moment, like the Konen operating in the badlands, we can keep the whole force together and continue on with my 'hit them in the face over and over again' plan."
"Right. Another thing ma'am-" Zhang draws all the units back in. "We can avoid that too if the situation calls. Hunker down and start fortifying our positions. The heavy recon could actually cover that too." She points to the engineering units. "We have nowhere near enough material to really fortify this region…" She taps the units again. "But we have enough to start. To make it look like we're falling back. Start laying a handful of mines instead of thousands, start outpost frames, that sort of thing."
"So if we have to, we can sit back and continue to build up those defenses without going out of our way to do so. Get more mines from home, finish those frames in the following months." Nash says with approval. "Even if we don't go, it gives us a good excuse to recall all of our teams from dangerous areas before the big attack. Prevent them being hunted."
"Right. We can go from all out offence, to a surprise offensive, to a defensive posture all from the same deployments at the same point in time. It gives you a lot of options, Ma'am." Zhang leans back in her chair. "It also makes the Cardassians uncertain. Sure, they 'know' that you'll launch a sudden offensive through Enio, but they also may see hints of the defensive construction and wonder if the heavy nature of scouting screens hint that we're trying to keep them back until we're finished." the Starfleet Captain smiles, "And if they decide that means that we're weaker than we're really are and attack…"
"We'll still outnumber them and be ready to hit them on our own prepared space without them being able to set up traps and ambushes."
"Right. There's a T'Soren cluster near Dorsata 44 that would work well, as well as a…"
As both women lean back in over the table, and the Admiral starts making calls to bring in her own staff, she briefly wishes that her old tac officer was once again on her staff. She banishes that thought quickly from her mind. Zhang deserves her own chance at command, even Enterprise if she so wishes, and doesn't deserve to live her career in Nash's shadow.
