The winning move here is to do something completely lateral. Something that will force the Cardassians onto the defensive without us having to fight them directly. Suggestions?
...would asking the Romulans for help be sufficiently lateral and out-of-the-blue?

Sort of an information-sharing agreement; they get all the info we have on a new major power, they return their conclusions in regards to things such as the capabilities of their agents, likely operations, and whatnot.
 
...would asking the Romulans for help be sufficiently lateral and out-of-the-blue?

Sort of an information-sharing agreement; they get all the info we have on a new major power, they return their conclusions in regards to things such as the capabilities of their agents, likely operations, and whatnot.
And why would they help us?

Heck, at this rate, I'm really thinking we need to push back against them. Hard.
 
...against the Romulans? What possible reason could we have to antagonize them now, when our relations are at a historical peak, we've been cooperating for the first time ever in various things, and we've got the Cardies brewing war on exactly the other side of our space?
 
We throw the Orion Syndicate under the bus.
Always worthwhile, in and of itself.

Though I will say this. With what we have right now, if the Cardassians deny everything we don't have any actual evidence.
Which makes playing our cards close to the vest all the more appealing; if the Cardassians slip up and acknowledge the attack as something authorized by their government, we have casus belli against them, and could easily justify a budget increase to the Federation Council so as to expand the fleet even faster. If they don't slip up, they might not realize we even know about it; opponents who underestimate your capabilities are overconfident, and overconfident foes make mistakes.

And if it really wasn't the Cardassian Union, then not declaring open season on them yet means we haven't gone off half-cocked.
 
We throw the Orion Syndicate under the bus.

Keep that cardassian life sign a top secret, and let the public think this was a unilateral act of terrorism by elements within the Syndicate. Show a strong response in the form of an Excelsior or two that helps the Orion Union's own fleet mop up all the Syndicate military/piracy assets they can find and a team of Betazoid spooks to purge Syndicate members from business and government. Make it look like a pirate gang got too big for its britches and got stepped on for it. It could even be a feather in the cap of Starfleet, finally freeing the Orions and their neighbors from non-state crime and tyranny.

Honestly, considering the Syndicate's presence we could totally spin this as "probably the Cardassians contracting the Syndicate" and not have to lie to get the results we want.
 
Eyup. We can use this as an excuse to seriously stomp down on the syndicate while upgunning our fleet for the inevitable war. Mmm. Lovely lovely Rialas.

And make no mistake it's inevitable - they just bombed a diplomatic summit. The only reason I'm not calling for a photon torpedo driveby on their capital is because I don't think a war to the knife is in our best interests YET.
 
Honestly, considering the Syndicate's presence we could totally spin this as "probably the Cardassians contracting the Syndicate" and not have to lie to get the results we want.

Which brings us back to having to choose between attacking the cardassians (and probably losing) or else appearing weak and unable to protect our affiliates.

Keep that cardassian biosign a secret. Blame it all on the Syndicate. Crush the spoonheads later, when we're confident we can do so.

EDIT: also, if it turns out that we weren't meant to detect that biosign and the Cardassians are trying to make us think the Syndicate really is responsible, then we can trick them into thinking we've fallen for it. This is most likely part of a bigger plot, and if they proceed without knowing we're on to them we'll probably be able to make it backfire massively.
 
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...against the Romulans? What possible reason could we have to antagonize them now, when our relations are at a historical peak, we've been cooperating for the first time ever in various things, and we've got the Cardies brewing war on exactly the other side of our space?
Erm, what? I'm not really sure where you got the idea about antagonizing the Romulans?
 
Question: When an opposing faction makes extensive use of maskirovka in an attempt to undermine you, how do you counter that?

This is a very interesting question. Strong parallels can be drawn between this situation and the US/USSR cold war. There are a number of differences also, so the analogy is a bit imperfect. But the cold war eventually devolved into a number of nasty proxy wars. Which is something that the Federation really doesn't want. I don't imagine anyone (on the Federation side) wants an arms race either.

And I can see both of those happening if this situation isn't resolved. It is not at all a stretch to imagine the Cardasians supplying weapons and intel to the 'freedom fighters' of the Orion syndicate to help them 'throw off the yoke of their Federation oppressors' if the Orion Union becomes a member of the Federation.

The big question is how to deal with these tactics. Ignoring it won't help. Getting into an actual shooting war should be the very last resort. Matching the Cardassian tactics will lead to recreation of the cold war, a very sub-optimal solution. Some one needs to think up a decent way to break the paradigm.

One thing that should be considered is Federation propaganda. A vehicle to disseminate the Feds view of things across the quadrant would be very useful. It might even be worth doing a joint venture with the Klingons and Romulons to create the Alpha Quadrant News Service. Lots of diplomacy work but that is one of the Federations strengths.
 
This is a very interesting question. Strong parallels can be drawn between this situation and the US/USSR cold war. There are a number of differences also, so the analogy is a bit imperfect. But the cold war eventually devolved into a number of nasty proxy wars. Which is something that the Federation really doesn't want. I don't imagine anyone (on the Federation side) wants an arms race either.

And I can see both of those happening if this situation isn't resolved. It is not at all a stretch to imagine the Cardasians supplying weapons and intel to the 'freedom fighters' of the Orion syndicate to help them 'throw off the yoke of their Federation oppressors' if the Orion Union becomes a member of the Federation.

The big question is how to deal with these tactics. Ignoring it won't help. Getting into an actual shooting war should be the very last resort. Matching the Cardassian tactics will lead to recreation of the cold war, a very sub-optimal solution. Some one needs to think up a decent way to break the paradigm.

One thing that should be considered is Federation propaganda. A vehicle to disseminate the Feds view of things across the quadrant would be very useful. It might even be worth doing a joint venture with the Klingons and Romulons to create the Alpha Quadrant News Service. Lots of diplomacy work but that is one of the Federations strengths.

Stall. Hush up. Postpone. Build our forces. We make it look like the Cardassian black ops aren't actually hurting us (and, whenever possible, that they aren't actually Cardassian black ops), and keep winning the diplomacy war in the CBZ to get more resources and allies while theirs run low.

Then, we end the Cardassian Union as a galactic power.
 
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This is a very interesting question. Strong parallels can be drawn between this situation and the US/USSR cold war. There are a number of differences also, so the analogy is a bit imperfect. But the cold war eventually devolved into a number of nasty proxy wars. Which is something that the Federation really doesn't want. I don't imagine anyone (on the Federation side) wants an arms race either.

And I can see both of those happening if this situation isn't resolved. It is not at all a stretch to imagine the Cardasians supplying weapons and intel to the 'freedom fighters' of the Orion syndicate to help them 'throw off the yoke of their Federation oppressors' if the Orion Union becomes a member of the Federation.

The big question is how to deal with these tactics. Ignoring it won't help. Getting into an actual shooting war should be the very last resort. Matching the Cardassian tactics will lead to recreation of the cold war, a very sub-optimal solution. Some one needs to think up a decent way to break the paradigm.

One thing that should be considered is Federation propaganda. A vehicle to disseminate the Feds view of things across the quadrant would be very useful. It might even be worth doing a joint venture with the Klingons and Romulons to create the Alpha Quadrant News Service. Lots of diplomacy work but that is one of the Federations strengths.
The Arms race is going to happen, just because neither side is going to stop designing new ships. The thing is that an Arms Race with the Cardassians is something the Federation cannot lose. Feddie R&D is AMAZING, and we're starting with a lead on both resources and industry. We're not in a position for a war to the knife. Give us 30 years and we can just curbstomp them with a doomfleet of Excelsior Refits, Ambassadors and the like. We absolutely want an arms race, because they can either play that game with us and lose, or they can not play it and become irrelevant.

Fortunately we're almost garunteed to get access to the Riala design after this event, and the Riala is cheaper and a better combatant than the Excelsior, while still being five year mission capable. We can turn out some Rialas to act as our line heavy warships, to fuck with the Cardies* and to cast aside any notion that the UFP is the Human Empire.

Depending on what all we get tech and design wise we might want to integrate Amarki stuff into the Renaissance. The Amarki Shields First warship philosphy meshes well with our schtick after all.

*Because they will be maximum butthurt at seeing Starfleet running around in capital-scale reminders of OO fuckups
Stall. Hush up. Postpone. Build our forces. We make it look like the Cardassian black ops aren't actually hurting us (and, whenever possible, that they aren't actually Cardassian black ops), and keep winning the diplomacy war in the CBZ to get more resources and allies while theirs run low.

Then, we end the Cardassian Union as a galactic power.
Eyup. The last thing you do when opposing the UFP from a peer, inferior, or modestly superior position is give them time. The Feds will tech up, build up, and technobabble up, then fuck you up. The Cardiassians are giving us time. Time to build an Excelsior/Riala/Rennesance victory fleet that we can use to roll over their fleet and dictate terms with capital ships over Cardassia Prime when we decide to go hot.

What? My vision of the UFP is that yes, they are nice, kind and diplomatic. Yes, they really would just like to get along and explore the universe together. Then you push them too far and you find out at least three of the four core members can be horrifically brutal nightmares when pushed into a corner.
 
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You know, it's not like this is a new thing for the Federation. Go back four decades, and there was a very similar situation with the Klingon Empire. Competing for resources, the Klingons engaged in underhanded sabotage (remember the Trouble with Tribbles involved a Klingon agents disguised as a human), and general tensions. In fact, the only thing that prevented war was godlike energy beings imposing a temporary peace treaty. What got the Federation through that one?

Patience. Endurance. Waiting until time passed and Klingon culture changed enough to make peace possible. The same thing could work with the Cardassians. Don't think of them as some static society that will only change if we make them change. The Cardassia of forty years from now will not be the same as the Cardassia of today. Counter their aggressive moves and continue to win over more allies and members. Force them to the peace tables with economics, as economics eventually forced the Klingons to make peace.

We're always hearing how resource-poor Cardassia is, right? That means that eventually, we may just be able to bribe them. Set up some juicy trading arrangements and make the Federation into a major source of their resources, and all of a sudden attacking Federation interests means cutting off their supply lines. That's the long term solution.
 
You know, it's not like this is a new thing for the Federation. Go back four decades, and there was a very similar situation with the Klingon Empire. Competing for resources, the Klingons engaged in underhanded sabotage (remember the Trouble with Tribbles involved a Klingon agents disguised as a human), and general tensions. In fact, the only thing that prevented war was godlike energy beings imposing a temporary peace treaty. What got the Federation through that one?

Patience. Endurance. Waiting until time passed and Klingon culture changed enough to make peace possible. The same thing could work with the Cardassians. Don't think of them as some static society that will only change if we make them change. The Cardassia of forty years from now will not be the same as the Cardassia of today. Counter their aggressive moves and continue to win over more allies and members. Force them to the peace tables with economics, as economics eventually forced the Klingons to make peace.

We're always hearing how resource-poor Cardassia is, right? That means that eventually, we may just be able to bribe them. Set up some juicy trading arrangements and make the Federation into a major source of their resources, and all of a sudden attacking Federation interests means cutting off their supply lines. That's the long term solution.
The only reason that one didn't go loud was the intervention of godlike energy beings. There aren't any of those here.

Also, the Klingons weren't blowing up diplomatic summits. That's a hilariously huge no-no. I wasn't kidding when I said that I'd be advocating for dropping a photon torpedo on their capital if I thought the ensuing war would be in our favor.
 
Fortunately we're almost garunteed to get access to the Riala design after this event, and the Riala is cheaper and a better combatant than the Excelsior, while still being five year mission capable. We can turn out some Rialas to act as our line heavy warships, to fuck with the Cardies* and to cast aside any notion that the UFP is the Human Empire.

What were the stats for the Riala? I vaguely recall it having a lower Science than I like, but I don't know where its stats are posted to easily check.
 
Also, the Klingons weren't blowing up diplomatic summits. That's a hilariously huge no-no. I wasn't kidding when I said that I'd be advocating for dropping a photon torpedo on their capital if I thought the ensuing war would be in our favor.

If you're really "not kidding" then I'm going to say that bombing a city is a morally disgusting action. Because your opponent does something awful doesn't mean it's okay to be awful in return, and killing millions of civilians is far worse than bombing a diplomatic summit.
 
Big Brother is watching...

Wait, we're the Federation, not the Cardassian Union. There shouldn't be a Big Brother.

Wait a minute, Cardassian Union, Soviet Union... it all makes sense now. :V
 
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