We're gonna affiliate them sooner or later.
Sooner on their own, or later as part of a package deal with the Romulans.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
We're gonna affiliate them sooner or later.
Sooner on their own, or later as part of a package deal with the Romulans.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
One of the key requirements and indeed the primary inspiration for this conceptual "emergency combat spam" role is to take advantage of the nearly 20 500kt berths across the Federation (plus a handful of 400kt berths which are upgradable to 500kt in less than a year from the Gaeni 500->600kt berth upgrade example IIRC) and excluding Apiata/Caitian berths for their own superior small stingers/swarmers.
There exist previous generation hulls around that tonnage (e.g. Amarki's Calac) but with the general trend of newer tech => larger frigates, I'm not sure if any of them is viable for a refit (or can otherwise serve as a base) to the required specifications of max 1.5yr build time and C>=3 and H+L>=6.
Unless a member fleet decides to be proactive with this, because I don't see much of an opening on Starfleet's end (beyond Kepler, we have possibly two next gen frigates and possible refits to design within the next decade), this may be a lost cause.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I will note that this kind of 'mosquito fleet' craft is EXACTLY the kind of thing that gets designed on a crash basis in the opening months of a really big war...
You're looking for this. I keep it up to date.
- Location
- somewhere
Speaking of which, you may want to update the crew requirements of the Kaldar (4/5/3 as seen in the recent battle). Also the defense of the Licori Vulture (D2) and Lizard (D3) as seen from the range of their skirmish rolls.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Nice! Thanks.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I sure hope so. The Patroller-A refit project could be done in a single quarter, but the refit itself proved to be small enough that each refit also only took a single quarter. I'm not sure I'd count on it though.
BTW, can you elaborate on how these skirmish (and scouting) checks are calculated from the base stats in your battle system overview post?
The numbers in "Engaged in skirmish with <ship> - rolls are <X> v <Y>" are pretty much all higher than the base stats, so I figure it's a 2d6+stat role?
edit: and I'd like to see how you inferred those defense stats.
- Location
- somewhere
All stat checks are 2d6 + stat, yes. I just checked what the lowest and the highest roll for the class was, if the difference was 10 that meant lowest -2 = stat. If the difference is less than 10 that just yields lower and upper bounds though. (You could get a pretty good idea of the stat by looking at the shape of the distribution but wouldn't know for sure).
Mentioning for every stat check that it's 2d6+stat just like every other stat check anywhere in the game seems a bit unnecessary.
Last edited:
- Location
- Australia
Is that 3 players run off in the last 2 game years?
Regarding refits, which ship classes get refits in 2325ish and which get farmed out to members?
Can we call the war-spam ship a corvette?
Regarding refits, which ship classes get refits in 2325ish and which get farmed out to members?
Can we call the war-spam ship a corvette?
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Thanks, just wanted confirmation.
It's unnecessary only for avid readers that remember how event checks work.
I don't recall any threadmarked posts that mention that "checks" or "tests" are 2d6.
There's also the 3d6 event response roll which opposes the ship's 2d6 + stats roll.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
If we think there is room for a new and improved patrol picket, getting some member worlds together to discuss doing it with out help is a fine use of the MWCO action.
The question is what level of improvement over a Patroller-A at what cost is worth it to them, and how many want new pickets instead of focusing on bringing their yards up to full Federation Frigate grade.
The question is what level of improvement over a Patroller-A at what cost is worth it to them, and how many want new pickets instead of focusing on bringing their yards up to full Federation Frigate grade.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
@OneirosTheWriter, are we going to see 300+ level major affiliation bonuses for the Yan-Ros? They reached 300+ relations before the Ked Paddah. In fact, they reached this around the same time as the Honiani last year.
Or are you holding off because they're planning to merge with the Honiani? If so, would there be some commensurate increase in Honiani contributions to Starfleet?
In case you can't tell, I'm really excited for expanded Yan-Ros participation in Starfleet
Or are you holding off because they're planning to merge with the Honiani? If so, would there be some commensurate increase in Honiani contributions to Starfleet?
In case you can't tell, I'm really excited for expanded Yan-Ros participation in Starfleet
- Location
- somewhere
I'm definitely not going to mention it three separate times for minefield, scouting and skirmish checks was what I meant, mostly. I also tend to think that most people don't really care about how exactly the checks function and that it doesn't really matter in this context (after all we don't know the DCs anyway and for aggregate opposed checks it's mostly just the stat difference and the number of checks that matters), and those who actually do care would mostly already know how stat checks work in this game. If there was a particular convenient place to describe how stat checks in general works I'd probably include it anyway just in case, but right now I don't really see one. Maybe I'll add something next time I'm revising the post.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@lbmaian If we want to have a "in case if emergency break glass" ship, we're best off building a slightly bigger Miranda as our combat frigate (C4 S3 H4 L4 P1 D4, 700kt with +1S module or 650kt without, requires 2327ish tech) but not building many. Then we spend all our MWCO turns pushing various members to expand their tiny berths to be big enough to build it. Remember that SoE doubles building rates, which will help will construction time. IMO a ship fulfilling your requirements of 500kt isn't actually going to be very useful in a fight and getting it approved by the Council will be a bitch. Plus, given research and prototyping time, we will save more time with a vessel that has a slightly longer construction time but is ready for construction than an emergency build.
This is assuming we want a ship like this. I think that in case of Cardassian-Federation war or a tiff with the Horizon, we're more likely to see berths getting emptied of Auxiliaries in favor of wartime construction.
This is assuming we want a ship like this. I think that in case of Cardassian-Federation war or a tiff with the Horizon, we're more likely to see berths getting emptied of Auxiliaries in favor of wartime construction.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
So just got the Ked Peddah numbers in, and they are a nice power to have on our side, 92C 98H and 76L from 24 ships. I only have C, H and L for their ships thanks to battles and it looks like they have no cruisers unless the Orah or Egilah are cruisers. Also they are located in the direction of the Horizon.
Starfleet+ Members+ Affiliates: 1284 C not including ships under repair or refit (13 of those)
Starfleet+ Members+ Affiliates: 1284 C not including ships under repair or refit (13 of those)
From Your Twisted Lights
The Egillah are "previous generation" battleships and therefore effectively cruisers.
Event Needs Analysis by Sector
Obviously my weighting here is fairly arbitrary. I'm not sure how much of a "base value" to assign to Border Zones, and I may be under-valuing major worlds as compared to homeworlds. Nor am I bothering weighting different types of frigates and cruisers. As well, you could perhaps argue that starbases are worth nothing for event response. Nonetheless, I think you'll find it illuminating.
Scoring System for Event Needs
Homeworlds = +2
Border Zone base value = +2
Major worlds = +0.5 (round down)
Scoring System for Responders
Explorers = +3
Cruisers = +2
Starbase = +2
Frigates = +1
Sol Sector
By the calculation, we get:
Needs more ships = Sol, Amarkia, Ferasa, Rigel
Too many ships = RBZ, KBZ, SBZ
Of course, that fails to account for the "deterrence value" of border zone forces and that they are supposed to intercept the nastiest and trickiest events.
Obviously my weighting here is fairly arbitrary. I'm not sure how much of a "base value" to assign to Border Zones, and I may be under-valuing major worlds as compared to homeworlds. Nor am I bothering weighting different types of frigates and cruisers. As well, you could perhaps argue that starbases are worth nothing for event response. Nonetheless, I think you'll find it illuminating.
Scoring System for Event Needs
Homeworlds = +2
Border Zone base value = +2
Major worlds = +0.5 (round down)
Scoring System for Responders
Explorers = +3
Cruisers = +2
Starbase = +2
Frigates = +1
Sol Sector
- Event Needs = 9 (3 homeworlds, 7 other major worlds) – New Seoul, Joburg IV, Alpha Centurai, Mars, Earth*, Lalande, Betazed*, Onos IV, Gaen*, Thunti
- Current Event Response = 8 (1 Explorer, 1 Frigate, 2 Starbases)
- Event Needs = 4 (1 homeworld, 4 other major worlds) – Delta Vega, Atatan, Vulcan*, 82 Eridani, Hagelan
- Current Event Response = 5 (1 Cruiser, 1 Frigate, 1 Starbase)
- Event Needs = 4 (1 homeworld, 4 other major worlds) – Andoria*, Landle IV, Kadann, Ranford III, Sardry IV
- Current Event Response = 4 (1 Cruiser, 1 Starbase)
- Event Needs = 3 (1 homeworld, 3 other major worlds) – Ord Grind Duk, Lagh Cheg II, Tellar Prime*, Sar Alpha
- Current Event Response = 4 (1 Cruiser, 1 Starbase)
- Event Needs = 6 (2 homeworlds, 4 other major worlds) – Tales Har, Amarkia*, Selindra, Leas Akaam, Alukk*, Celos
- Current Event Response = 5 (1 Cruiser, 1 Frigate, 1 Starbase)
- Event Needs = 10 (3 homeworlds, 9 other major worlds) – 2 major Orion worlds (?), Ollasa IV, Merfara II, Ferasa*, Risa*, Second Risa, Arqeniou*, Larcasis, Carnin Quel, Harquere, Celesipos
- Current Event Response = 6/8 (1 Explorer, 1 Frigate, 1 Starbase, Adding a Cruiser in Q4)
- Event Needs = 10 (4 homeworlds, 4 other major worlds) – Abadan, Welleck, Laudon, Rigel*, Okatha*, Becarra, Ucuta, Vail*, Obar Homeworld*)
- Current Event Response = 7/9 (1 Explorer, 1 Cruiser, 1 Starbase, Adding a Cruiser in Q4)
- Event Needs = 6 (2 homeworlds, 4 other major worlds) – Apinae*, Irrizizza, Alrizzine, Burizz, Indoria*, Vidotti
- Current Event Response = 7 (1 Cruiser, 1 Frigate, 2 Starbase)
- Event Needs = 2 (Zone Events, 1 major world) – Solitude
- Current Event Response = 7/8 (1 Explorer, 2 frigates, 1 Starbase, Adding Frigate in Q4)
- Event Needs = 3 (Zone Events, 2 major worlds) – Thiak V, Shrantet III
- Current Event Response = 7/8 (1 Explorer, 2 frigates, 1 Starbase, Adding Frigate in Q4)
- Event Needs = 3 (Zone Events, 2 major worlds) - Vega, Klivvar Proxima
- Current Event Response = 7 (1 Explorer, 2 frigates, 1 Starbase)
- Event Needs = 7 (Zone Events, 2 homeworlds, 2 other major worlds) – Rethelia*, Hacitorius, Fiiral*, Hassonus
- Current Event Response 8 = (1 Explorer, 1 Cruiser, 1 frigate, 1 Starbase)
- Events Needs = 5 (Zone Events, 1 homeworld, 3 other major worlds) – Paddah*, Gad, Adad Bande, Ashira
- Current Event Response = 6 (1 Explorer, 1 Cruiser, 1 frigate)
By the calculation, we get:
Needs more ships = Sol, Amarkia, Ferasa, Rigel
Too many ships = RBZ, KBZ, SBZ
Of course, that fails to account for the "deterrence value" of border zone forces and that they are supposed to intercept the nastiest and trickiest events.
- Location
- USA
Mutual support makes all things better, though we do need more ships still.... one day we will have enough event responders.
@OneirosTheWriter did a very clever thing by creating the Gabriel Border Zone. It's the main thing keeping us from flooding sectors with more event responders, and it provides a constant tension in deciding how much to commit there.
Kolar
Is Not A Robot
@Briefvoice If you are still trying to figure out garrison distribution for the next 5-6 years like you said before, you should probably include the Affiliates waiting for membership. One of them is getting ratified every year right?
I included the worlds of all members at +300 relationship, from Orions to Risans to Honiani.
- Location
- USA
True but once again Mututal support + Chen just makes our event responders more efficient as there are some sectors that are quitter than others each quarter and it changes. Mutual support on the other hand lets us deploy them into pools that cover multiple sectors making it less of a chance of not having a ship that can respond. Still I think we need to try and get a few more members into the GBZ. The colony ship that recently completed can be sent to assist members as well so that way even if they are short on civilian ships they can still gain resources that will let them build up more. Plus this way we get more forces to watch our back there.
Kolar
Is Not A Robot
Ah, didn't see the Seyke in the CBZ, figured they would become their own sector with the Qloath.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hmm... *Does math*
Assuming an average annual roll and maybe one event per species or so, we're set to likely grow the Federation by 9 members over 9 years. Maybe faster if Development loses ground in the next few elections (a man can hope, ok?) And if the Laio pick up 3 events, they'll be #10.
And, of course, in about six years we get a number of nice boosts to rolls, which will be nice. And 3 non-affiliate rolls... *Drools*
Assuming an average annual roll and maybe one event per species or so, we're set to likely grow the Federation by 9 members over 9 years. Maybe faster if Development loses ground in the next few elections (a man can hope, ok?) And if the Laio pick up 3 events, they'll be #10.
And, of course, in about six years we get a number of nice boosts to rolls, which will be nice. And 3 non-affiliate rolls... *Drools*
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
As long as it's mentioned once somewhere, that would be nice. Although this is dealing with fairly in-depth quest mechanics, the specific 2d6+stat probability distribution does determine the marginal improvement of incrementing stats for such checks.
I would actually like a solution along these lines. Whatever the sweet spot is for frigates, target that tonnage and the required berth space, which I figure is likely 1mt.
The problem is that's a LOT of a member fleets we need to vote to improve their shipyards, one by one, year after year. That's gonna require some long-term coordination from us. It's at times like these that I wish we still had the Sousa Deal.
I figure the budget 500kt vanguard frigate spam idea was feasible in a single MWCO* turn by encouraging a combined fleet doctrine member fleet to design such a ship. The Amarki in particular should be amenable to this, because they've suggested Starfleet adopt one of their designs before (the Hebrinda, back when we only had the Constellation), which leads me to believe it would be a great source of national pride of that could design a ship for much of the rest of the Federation.
* Well, it is technically feasible for Starfleet to design such a 500kt frigate but: a) I don't expect it to be popular with the Council (i.e. high pp); b) I don't expect it to pass tactical role and SDB committees (i.e. pass tactical role, snakepit, and ship design player votes); and b) Starfleet already has a potentially busy schedule for next gen frigate design (both novel classes and refits) for the next decade.
This isn't completely accurate. Limited mobilization incurs a 2qtr build time reduction. Wartime mobilization involves 25% reduced build time. It's only total mobilization that reduces build time by half.
Note that for build times shorter than 2 years, wartime mobilization has no additional benefit beyond the limited mobilization! This is why I believe it's still important to optimize on build time: a standard build time of 1.5yr would be cut short to 1yr build times, 33% build time reduction, nearly immediately as economies start ramping up toward full mobilization.
Which ship are you referring to? 500kt berths can't build modern warships unless they're expanded in size or a 500kt warship is designed.
Last edited: