- Location
- Patriarchova
She's a mentat?
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
She's a mentat?
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Fortunately, I already set the big wargame to Q2.
Also, she's in Nash's other old chair right now.
Great ship, great mentor.
That's a fitting name.
The Enterprise is
I guess some of it rubbed off onto Mrr'shan.
Risa Sector: Where the Yan'ros go for vacation. Behind the beach episodes, there's a relieved Risan Chief.
So there seems to be a consensus on building more shipyard berths, but not on which ones or where to put them or what size they should be. Let's got through the options.
Expand Current Shipyards
San Francisco (Can take advantage of Heavy Industrial Park)
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional) <--- Odd if correct. SF already has 2 1mt berths, but this is the same cost as adding a 1mt berth to a shipyard with only one.
40 Eridani A
Add 3mt berth - 42pp, 6 turns
Add 1 mt berth - 18 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Ana Font
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Lor'Vela OCF
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Oresea Starfleet (costs presumed)
Add 3mt berth - 32pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Apinae Shipyard (costs presumed)
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Utopia Planitia (Can take advantage of heavy industrial park)
Add 2mt cruiser berth - 11pp, 6 turns (+5pp per subsequent build)
Add 3mt and 1mt berth - 28pp, 4 turns
Wow, it's really hard to justify expanding anywhere else over UP, isn't it? The only argument against is the "eggs in one basket" one. Maybe we might maybe want to put a 3mt Excelsior berth at Oreasa, but it doesn't stack up very well against a new shipyard (see below).
Build New Shipyards
Request new Shipyard at Amarkia, 33pp (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth) - May not expand route penalty since we already have Lasieth Craft Yards there.
Request new Shipyard at Ferasa, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
Request new Shipyard at Rigel, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
Request new Shipyard at Indoria, 18pp (12 turns, 1 1mt Berth)
Indoria isn't cost competitive at all and would do nothing but expand our route penalty. Pass. The other three are at least somewhat cost competitive with UP, though taking 3x as long. On the nextative side they all (other than Amarkia maybe) expand route penalty. On the plus side they spread construction over a wider area, potentially shortening tow times for repair and making sabotage harder.
I would probably go for something like:
UP Cruiser Berth - 11pp
UP Expansion - 28pp
New Amarkia Shipyard - 33pp
Total pp on Shipyards = 72pp
Expand Current Shipyards
San Francisco (Can take advantage of Heavy Industrial Park)
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional) <--- Odd if correct. SF already has 2 1mt berths, but this is the same cost as adding a 1mt berth to a shipyard with only one.
40 Eridani A
Add 3mt berth - 42pp, 6 turns
Add 1 mt berth - 18 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Ana Font
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Lor'Vela OCF
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Oresea Starfleet (costs presumed)
Add 3mt berth - 32pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Apinae Shipyard (costs presumed)
Add 3mt berth - 37pp, 6 turns
Add 1mt berth - 14 pp, 4 turns (+5 per additional)
Utopia Planitia (Can take advantage of heavy industrial park)
Add 2mt cruiser berth - 11pp, 6 turns (+5pp per subsequent build)
Add 3mt and 1mt berth - 28pp, 4 turns
Wow, it's really hard to justify expanding anywhere else over UP, isn't it? The only argument against is the "eggs in one basket" one. Maybe we might maybe want to put a 3mt Excelsior berth at Oreasa, but it doesn't stack up very well against a new shipyard (see below).
Build New Shipyards
Request new Shipyard at Amarkia, 33pp (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth, 1 1mt Berth) - May not expand route penalty since we already have Lasieth Craft Yards there.
Request new Shipyard at Ferasa, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
Request new Shipyard at Rigel, 22pp, (12 turns, 1 3mt Berth)
Request new Shipyard at Indoria, 18pp (12 turns, 1 1mt Berth)
Indoria isn't cost competitive at all and would do nothing but expand our route penalty. Pass. The other three are at least somewhat cost competitive with UP, though taking 3x as long. On the nextative side they all (other than Amarkia maybe) expand route penalty. On the plus side they spread construction over a wider area, potentially shortening tow times for repair and making sabotage harder.
I would probably go for something like:
UP Cruiser Berth - 11pp
UP Expansion - 28pp
New Amarkia Shipyard - 33pp
Total pp on Shipyards = 72pp
- Location
- somewhere
These are all 5pp too high. It says "+5 for every extra 3mt berth present at shipyard past the first" and only 40 Eridani A has such a berth present. The 2.5mt berths present at Ana Font and Lor'Vela may not even count as the first, so we might be able to add two 3mt berths at one of those for 32pp each.
Also the possibility of unlocking an Utopia Planitia-like option has to be considered, and Oneiros confirmed it for Delta Vega at least.
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Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd definitely get behind an Amarkia Planetia project at some point. Maybe even an Apinae Planetia. The latter would be somewhat close to the front, but given how much of Gabriel we hold and the possibility the Sydraxians are defanged, it may not be such a bad idea.
It'd be amazing if we can flip the Sydraxians and get a Sydraxia Planetia. A fine sneer at the Cardassians.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
If we do in fact get another Planitia option we need to take it to spread out our construction options. I am all in favor of another Shipyard at Amarkia. As well as a couple of Berths at Indoria. We should also think about adding one or two more berths at Apinea to increase our repair options there. I am against the Shipyard at Ferasa since we don't need one there right now.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That just means they need to learn, silly!
Yeah. I added him to the list a few months back because I realized we'd be pretty short on canon characters for the 2330s or so; the Enterprise-D command team don't even show up on our radar until the '40s or so. Quaice is supposed to be a genius in his own right, so I went with that.
Notably, Agile's main claim to fame is a blow struck for nominative determinism. Agile was the first Federation ship to be fired on during the Battle of Lora III, in the first combat round, and passed her evasion check. I'm picturing it going something like this:
Rexasodie:
"YOU IDIOT! They literally painted 'AGILE' on the side of the ship in twenty meter high letters, AND YOU SHOT AT THEM FIRST!"
EDIT: In retrospect, this kind of set the tone for the rest of the battle...
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ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Remember that Nash's actual captain bonus was to crew quality. For all she was an awesome captain in general, her less obvious genius was for mentoring and developing her crew to be exceptional. Ten years of this pays off.
I think that eventually we want Nash as v. Adm. Personal to take advantage of this knack. She may not enjoy the paperwork, but she can fit the odd shaped people into odd shaped holes like she was playing with a children's toy.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, I just finished a list for Oneiros of every significant canon character from now 'til Nemisis and Quaice was on there.
There is a surprising amount of continuity for background extras, in TNG especially, that I didn't appreciate until now. (There's one guy that's in like 70 episodes! over the entire run of TNG and into Generations!) In universe this guy helped build the Enterprise-D at Utopia Planetia and then served on the ship up until Generations. That's dedication!
Special shout out to Voyager though for having a fairly large group of reappearing extras. I never noticed it but they did make a good faith effort to have Voyager seem like it's the same small crew always.
- Location
- somewhere
Seruk would be spinning in his... office chair? Whatever he's doing now he probably has an office.
- Location
- The internet
To be fair, if we want them to help we should encourage them to build up their merchant fleet and auxiliaries to support starfleet.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah. They did put effort into it. TOS wasn't always so good about it, buuuut on the other hand..
Leslie: "Yo."
[Seriously, Leslie appears in more episodes than Chekov or Sulu]
Honestly, I agree. It's like, Nash is a super-great manager and coach who helps you unlock your potential. That doesn't mean she'd be a good fit for Head of
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Looking over our income history over the past 7 years (since I started keeping track), it's insane how fast Starfleet has grown.
2309 EOY income: 510br 350sr 67pp 116rp 8.35O 9.45E 11.65T 1.75O(EC) 1.7E(EC) 1.95T(EC)
2316 EOY income: 965br 700sr 124pp 213rp 16.4O 20.1E 21.2T 3.75O(EC) 3.2E(EC) 2.95T(EC)
2309 EOY berths: 16 total berths - 8 1mt berths, 2 2.5mt berths, 6 3mt berths
2316 EOY berths: 27 total berths - 13 (+4 aux) 1mt berths, 2 2.5mt berths, 8 3mt berths
2309 EOY fleet stat sums: C129 S106 D117
2316 EOY fleet stat sums: C239 S194 D223
...and other metrics if one cares to look.
Also! This is the first year since 2311 that we've had net positive BR/SR from "events" (everything excluding Q1 Shipyard Ops expenses, Q2 Snakepit expenses and resource infusions, and Q3 EAS expenses)
2309 EOY income: 510br 350sr 67pp 116rp 8.35O 9.45E 11.65T 1.75O(EC) 1.7E(EC) 1.95T(EC)
2316 EOY income: 965br 700sr 124pp 213rp 16.4O 20.1E 21.2T 3.75O(EC) 3.2E(EC) 2.95T(EC)
2309 EOY berths: 16 total berths - 8 1mt berths, 2 2.5mt berths, 6 3mt berths
2316 EOY berths: 27 total berths - 13 (+4 aux) 1mt berths, 2 2.5mt berths, 8 3mt berths
2309 EOY fleet stat sums: C129 S106 D117
2316 EOY fleet stat sums: C239 S194 D223
...and other metrics if one cares to look.
Also! This is the first year since 2311 that we've had net positive BR/SR from "events" (everything excluding Q1 Shipyard Ops expenses, Q2 Snakepit expenses and resource infusions, and Q3 EAS expenses)
| Year | BR | SR | PP | RP | O | E | T | O(EC) | E(EC) | T(EC) |
| 2309 | 5 | -55 | 105 | 90 | -1 | |||||
| 2310 | 65 | 60 | 130 | 50 | ||||||
| 2311 | 20 | 10 | 95 | 80 | -1 | -1 | -2 | 6 | 5 | 5 |
| 2312 | -70 | -70 | 125 | 55 | -2 | -2 | -2 | |||
| 2313 | -42 | -27 | 179 | 110 | -6 | -5 | -7 | -1 | -1 | |
| 2314 | -295 | -90 | 99 | 95 | -2 | -1 | -1 | |||
| 2315 | -285 | -280 | 245 | 125 | -4 | -4 | 1 | 6 | 4 | 4 |
| 2316 | 85 | 205 | 290 | 125 | -1 |
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The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
So, a thought occurred to me about an interesting mess we might have to deal with, assuming I'm correct about certain aspects of Apiatan biology.
Namely, a Queen dying unexpectedly and causing a Worker aboard a starship to start maturing into a replacement Queen.
Figure that the hive-bond thing the Apiatans have is partly pheremones and partly psionic bullshit, and therefore it functions across interstellar distances. Also, figure that there was an evolutionary reason for there to be enough Workers with weak or non-existent bonds to their Queens that it was a societal issue instead of an extremely rare genetic disorder; namely, that the more independent-minded workers are the first in line to start maturing into Queens if the old Queen dies without explicitly producing a new Queen as their heir.
This would leave us with a bit of a conundrum regarding what to do with the new Queen, since IIRC we don't have any of them in Starfleet due to the issues that trying to integrate a full Apiatan hive into a Starfleet crew would cause.
Namely, a Queen dying unexpectedly and causing a Worker aboard a starship to start maturing into a replacement Queen.
Figure that the hive-bond thing the Apiatans have is partly pheremones and partly psionic bullshit, and therefore it functions across interstellar distances. Also, figure that there was an evolutionary reason for there to be enough Workers with weak or non-existent bonds to their Queens that it was a societal issue instead of an extremely rare genetic disorder; namely, that the more independent-minded workers are the first in line to start maturing into Queens if the old Queen dies without explicitly producing a new Queen as their heir.
This would leave us with a bit of a conundrum regarding what to do with the new Queen, since IIRC we don't have any of them in Starfleet due to the issues that trying to integrate a full Apiatan hive into a Starfleet crew would cause.
- Location
- somewhere
That's only surprising for 2312, the other years we fought major battles in, so you wouldn't expect resource findings to exceed repair costs.Also! This is the first year since 2311 that we've had net positive BR/SR from "events" (everything excluding Q1 Shipyard Ops expenses, Q2 Snakepit expenses and resource infusions, and Q3 EAS expenses)
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
What's "surprising" is that we've finally had a "quiet" year for the first time in half a decade. 2310 and 2311 also weren't great years for us due to the Syndicate cost pp drain.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Somehow ha managed to spend his entire shipboard career on the Enterprise. I think he must have keep getting promoted and reassigned just before he would have been due for a transfer or promotion off ship. Bazrak must have had a friend who pulled some strings when a certain Vulcan was distracted.
I don't know, Utopia Planetia was supposed to be a special yard that couldn't be duplicated anywhere else. Certainly it's the biggest (only?) shipyard that shows up in canon. I'd probably be against any new ones on principle alone.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
THat's probably why people in Canon kept attacking Earth, they kept loading up all their shipyards in one basket. I'd rather spread things out a bit.
- Location
- somewhere
A magical shipyard that cannot possibly be replicated elsewhere is silly. A special shipyard that is exceptional for specific, hard to reproduce circumstances, so hard that it's plausible it was never tried in canon is much more sensible. A pp expense of approximately 300pp, and possibly being limited to very few possible locations even then, perhaps not including our most favored location, that should count as suitably hard to reproduce, shouldn't it?
- Location
- USA
For me this coming snakepit i would prioritize the up expansion and a 3mt yard at san Fran, along with additional aux yards. After those adding the 14pp 1mt berths outside of all come next.
I want San Fran yards setup to be able to use the parallel build bonus on the 3mt berth.
I want San Fran yards setup to be able to use the parallel build bonus on the 3mt berth.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Personally, I think Sophont Resources sounds nice.
I also would like UP to remain special.
KlavoHunter
THOU SHALT WORSHIP NO GODS ABOVE ENTERPRISE!
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- Location
- somewhere
By the way, since half of the thread is doing it, it's spelled Utopia Planitia, note the lack of any e, and it has nothing to do with "planet". It's named after an actual geographic feature on Mars, presumably the location of the ground-based infrastructure belonging to the shipyard.