pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The difference is that Roma/Bedouin don't commit offenses where obstructing the investigation can be reasonably considered a declaration of war.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
So is anyone else vaguely concerned that the Hishmeri path takes them near a practically-undefended Risa?
Also, we really need to dedicate an explorer to the area rimward of the Seyek.
Also, we really need to dedicate an explorer to the area rimward of the Seyek.
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Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
I am someone who is genre savvy enough to not be fooled by you for a second. And Yes I do Dare. After all. you misspelled Human Woman which proves that you are not who you say you are.
How many Capital grade civilian ships do we have?
I am pretty sure we have one or two Starships near Rosa IIRC. I don't think the Hishmeri will try to pull something. Especialy since we have a task force dedicated to preventing them from raiding in our territory.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
"Peace At Any Price," a view attributed to the Federation.
JEEZ WHAT IS WITH YOU TODAY KILLJOY.
Bear in mind:
1) We actually have NO IDEA where their 'liveships' are. Even if our scouts found them, within a month they could be a sector away. It would take a concerted and extremely vindictive search to find and destroy them, especially since they are well armed.
2) It may well be that Hishmeri care little about the fate of Hishmeri not of their own clan/sept/tribal affiliation. If so, this specific clan might think their members relatively safe from reprisal, even if the Hishmeri culture as a whole is not.
I mean, real nomadic cultures had their far-ranging cavalry warbands AND their slow-moving, relatively vulnerable herds and tents. This is no different. We could in theory hunt down and destroy their 'camp' ships, but it would be a very challenging undertaking as long as the 'camps' remain several sectors away from our border in space we barely have mapped, let alone patrolled.
And it is no trouble at all for their fighting ships to strike several map squares away from their main 'camps.'
You assume their main fleet is easy to track, or that their ships follow simple, easily predicted paths that tell you right where their main fleet is. Neither of these assumptions is very secure in my opinion.
If they're so easy to find, how come we don't actually know where their main fleet(s) is (are)?
Very much so; it's been mentioned. If the Risan Warp Lifesaving Association (or whatever they call their fleet) starts having trouble with the Hishmeri, we'll probably end up having to reinforce our fleet down that way. On the other hand, it'll be easy to call up more ships for that purpose, especially since the Risans don't have THAT many colonies to defend. I bet even the Vulcans could be persuaded to cough up a few ships purely to sit around and frown disapprovingly at the Hishmeri.
I think that once we've actually got the Seyek settled down as a Federation member, the explorer(s) now poking around IN Seyek space will move out PAST it...
... Also, shut up, @Joshrand1982 , I need my pants done by Monday a LOT more than I need to check them for listening devices.
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... I always pronounced it in my head as "Pappist" not "pay-pist"
Oh dear, am I right N'Gir
- Location
- Central Standard Time
... Now it is quest start year.
Here's to getting to quest start Stardate!
Here's to getting to quest start Stardate!
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@OneirosTheWriter
Your front page stat listing for the Courageous leaves out the +1 Science and Presence for EC crew.
Your front page stat listing for the Courageous leaves out the +1 Science and Presence for EC crew.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Isn't the Peace at Any Price idea Fanon?
You just figured that out now!?
No, bad Jester! You'll make a Stesk
The Hishmeri are getting sat upon by a 40C fleet. Risa isn't undefended from the Hishmeri, its benefiting from the Hishmeri containment task force.
At least partially, yes. However, during TNG at least the Federation has made some rather... poor diplomatic decisions when it comes to the Cardassians, striking deals weighed in favour of the Cardassians while the forces arrayed would've meant the Cardassians would've lost hard, and similar deals along its borders.
Something something peace in our time.
To be fair to Chamberlain, he was well aware that Hitler was unlikely to be satisfied and very likely to push further. After the Munich Agreement he started pushing for British rearmament hard.
It's just that, at that time, neither the British nor the French would've been in a position to effectively oppose the Nazi warmachine. They needed at least one year to rebuild their military.
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Winged One
Not the Simurgh
- Location
- definitely the ground
- Pronouns
- They/Them/It
Yes, the Cardassian Union and the Lecarre are just liars.
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
We knew that already.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
For certain values of 'fan' and 'on,' yes, I'm sure. But that doesn't mean it's what I would call... well supported... that the Federation in the 24th century actually does favor "peace at ANY price" as opposed to "peace at most sane prices."
For example, in the first episode of TNG where we meet Cardassians, The Wounded, it's made fairly clear that the Federation would be likely to go to war if it detected Cardassian freighters carrying military cargoes to certain demilitarized planets. Granted that a Federation captain (Picard) is willing to restrain another captain (Maxwell) who's gone rogue into Union space in the belief that the freighters are carrying military cargoes... but the warning Picard gives Gul
I figured it out when you quoted the wrong person.
Okay fine, GEEZ, but someone's going to have to one, help me figure out a way to distract hungry space monsters and two, help me use up ten thousand tons of surplus barbecue sauce.
[sighs]
Debateable given the geometry. The 40C fleet, once it assembles, may well succeed in deflecting the Hishmeri- but if we're not careful, a lot of the Hishmeri we deflect in this way will get deflected in the general direction of Risa.
The Hishmeri are like a wave of floodwaters; the water is already on the move, and it's going to go somewhere, following the path of least resistance to whatever destination attracts it. Outright stopping the waters and forcing them to go around a large area entirely is going to require a very big, tightly constructed levee. Diverting the flow into another channel is considerably easier, but we have to be careful thinking about what else is IN that other channel, unless we want it to get wet.
Erring on the side of avoiding war is not the same as "peace at any price." Moreover, we don't really know much about the Federation's strategic situation. If you add up all the antagonistic, armed, starfaring species the Federation has clashed with over the course of TOS, TNG, and DS9, there is good reason to imagine that the Federation's armed forces are stretched quite thin covering many frontiers over a territory that is wide compared to the speed of the ships involved.
Imagine how we'd feel about starting a war with the Cardassians if the member world fleets were paper tigers rather than (in many cases) solid C50-C100 fighting units. If the Romulans were still at best creepily neutral with occasional hints of stalkerish hostility. And if we had a couple more major powers and several more minor ones on our border that were either actively aligned with potential enemy major powers, or opportunistically likely to hit us if we let our guard down.
Even if we had a favorable balance of forces, at that time, on that border, against the Cardassians alone,... We might hesitate to fight them, for fear of triggering a general free-for-all of "everybody dogpile the Federation!" Ceding a subsector or two of the Gabriel Expanse and ordering our civilian colonists in the region to evacuate, or accepting their construction of outposts and bases near our space, or tolerating a brutal occupation of Bajor, might seem a lot more appealing. Especially compared to the alternative of watching all the jackals circle us looking for an opportunity to take a bite out of us while we were busy fighting the Cardassian lion.
The balance of forces wasn't quite as unfavorable as Chamberlain believed; the iron fist of the Nazi war machine was still missing a couple of fingers at that point. But Chamberlain believed, on the basis of the available intelligence, that this was not the case- so he arguably made the correct decision. He simply described it in a very unfortunate way to the press, partly because he had to deal with a political establishment in Britain where "peace at any price" really WAS a not-unpopular sentiment. Look up the Oxford Union Society's 1933 declaration shortly after Hitler took power, for instance.
If I had to model Chamberlain's era of political government in Britain at the time, in terms of the Federation's parties, I'd write it up as a sizeable plurality of Pacifists, with the majority being a Mercantilist-Development alliance that itself had pacifist leanings. There'd be a significant minority of Expansionists (pro-imperials), and all of one Hawk figure, namely Winston Churchill.
Chamberlain, in this situation, is a prime minister from Expansion or Development or Mercantile trying to hold together a rather Pacifist-leaning EDM coalition, in the face of strong Pacifist opposition- some of the strongest pacifism ever expressed by a national political mainstream in the entire history of the Earth. A certain amount of lip service to the idea of 'peace in our time' is to be expected.
- Location
- Patriarchova
By request:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Hm.
Does anyone object if I reunite Rebok the Vulcan computer technician with his former captain?
I like Rebok on some level, among other things because he may well have largely by accident have become the strongest man in the Alpha Quadrant.
Does anyone object if I reunite Rebok the Vulcan computer technician with his former captain?
I like Rebok on some level, among other things because he may well have largely by accident have become the strongest man in the Alpha Quadrant.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
There are many reasons I love this quest. This, however, is by far the best part.
Live long and prosper, my friends.
No! Bra'tac & Teal'c are in danger! Go Courageous, go with all speed!
One of these days, the Quadrant is going to realize that attempting to board a crewed Federation Starship is a suicide mission. This isn't the OTL hippy Enterprise-D they're dealing with!
And the Hishmeri have learned just what kind of lunatics they're actually dealing with.
So... Instead of the Goa'uld, we got the TCB Xenolestians? That's honestly more terrifying than the snakes!
And 7B is far too close for my liking. Is it too late to give the Tau'ni the design specs for the Renaissance?
The Augment Plague from Enterprise!?
The Rock Whisperer strikes again!
Was actually expecting this to end with the Klingons throwing a shit-fit over the crew being "denied the honor of continuing to serve" and the Federation having to accept their "Secondmemt to Starfleet" and putting them on our ships on the Cardassian frontier.
Honestly, my first thought was that we were dealing with Mentats again. Zefram Cochrane didn't enter my mind until someone else pointed out the connection.
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I would love if the Vulcans' discovery of Warp Drive was actually the latter.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
That would certainly explain the ring nacelles.
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
You have watched first contact right?
Wait I read that wrong. Should really not post while doing yard work.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, it was two thousand years ago, so good luck finding out...
But me too, Chris. Me too.
My working hypothesis is that ring nacelles really ARE an efficient solution to a problem nobody has anymore, due to advances in technology that the Vulcans themselves, conservatively, did not consider (say, because of some ancillary consideration).
Headcanon: the effective speed limit prior to, say, a few decades before the TOS era was something like Warp 7, and nobody knew how to beat this, thus explaining the "time barrier" mentioned in The Cage. Ring nacelles are a very, very efficient way to build a ship that cruises at Warp 6.5 or so, but not a good way to build a ship to go faster than that. Thus, the Vulcans designed their ships around ring nacelles for centuries, never having the Gaeni-ish breakthrough that enabled faster travel, and raising condescending eyebrows at all those silly nacelle users who got inferior antimatter mileage.
Then came the breaking of the 'time barrier,' and the shoe was on the other foot and within a relatively short time, ring nacelles were no longer seen even on Vulcan ships except among a few specific craft designed to exploit that 'sweet spot' of Warp 6.5-or-so cruising.
EDIT:
Basically, the idea being that ring nacelles make a great deal of sense in the context of an ancient race that has spent centuries carefully optimizing their equipment to work up to the very limits of what is possible within their known technological framework, while remaining highly reliable and efficient. But then they abruptly stop making sense when the rules change after Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations turns up game-changing drive technologies in the early 23rd century.
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