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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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New crunchy logistics numbers!
We are now listed as being short: 8 freighters and 10 cargo ships.
If we assume 3 berths to meet ongoing demand even with the warning that putting more of our mines in Gabriel just makes the modifier on our shipping worse...
And if we further assume that the two currently free berths stay free, then I can give you the following build times vs berths to fix our backlog:
Years Berths
2 Impossible
3 18
4 12
5 8
6 6/7**
7 6
8 5
9 4/5**
10 4
11 4/5**
*If we can find 2 years for a cargo ships somewhere else, we can use the smaller number.
**If we can find 4 years for a pair of cargo ships somewhere else, we can use the smaller number.

This table assumes no super freighters and, unless noted, no borrowed or other free berths. It doesn't cover any efforts to increase Starfleet's engineering capacity. It does not include any auxiliaries currently under construction. It also assumes that all involved berths are available immediately.

Let the arguments debate begin!
EDIT: Messed up my math. Hold please. Fixed!
 
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Forgothrax said:
"Minerals got" really should just be a line item at this point. Same with "rescued ship or colony by non-EC ship." Maybe a new colony site is worth a paragraph, but...
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Except when Onerios is bored.

Iron Wolf said:
"Arrived to find colony descended to sectarian civil violence. Resolved. Left."
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That's the kind of log I'd expect from T'Lorel.



Joshrand1982 said:
Captains Log: Found Biophage. Engaged same Destroyed same. All is well End Log
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Ok, that's a T'Lorel Captain's Log for sure.
 
UbeOne said:
"We investigated <planet> in <system> and deemed it suitable for a mining colony."
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Well, mining colonies become a permanent part of our game world in a way "found 30 br" planets don't. It's arguably good to have a few interesting details about each of our colony planets, especially the research colonies where it's otherwise unclear what is being researched about the planet.

But with pretty much the sole exception of colony sites, first contacts, and major diplomatic incidents with crisis level consequences, I'm very much happy with Oneiros reducing things to one-liners when the muse is unkind to him.

MS-21H 'Hawke' said:
1. And I'm sure the Constellation was an unholy terror back when it was introduced.
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Look at the class from the point of view of a Klingon Bird-of-Prey. The combat performance difference between the Constitution-A and Constellation looks rather less significant from that "Bird's eye view," and Constellations can be built in significantly greater numbers.

This is further amplified by my (canon-supported) speculation that the Constellations were unusually fast ships for their day, given that they could manage Warp 9 on the TNG scale when most ships of the era couldn't. By comparison, in TOS, the 'danger never exceed' speed for the Enterprise would have been somewhere around Warp 7 on the TNG scale. And the Constellations were designed within about ten years of the last episode of the original series.

One of the advantages of Klingon 'swarm fleet' doctrine is that they can be in many places at once, doing many things, while their individual ships use cloaks to avoid battle with strong opponents. They can be in twenty places at once, their enemy can only be in ten, so they have ten Birds-of-Prey play "tag" with their enemies using cloaks and send the other ten to hit unprotected targets like listening posts or minor colonies.

The Constellation, in this context, makes a lot of sense as a "counter-swarm" cruiser. It would be very effective at chasing down and intercepting small individual ships that peel away from the wolfpack for specific missions, forcing the (Klingon) enemy to bunch up and stay together.

As long as the Klingons stay together in squadrons to avoid being picked off by the Constellations, they are more susceptible to being hit by the Constitution-As with possible support from the small but heavily-gunned Mirandas. Sure, the Klingons still have the advantage of numbers, but it matters a lot less when they're deprived of the ability to subdivide their forces and be in many places at once.

In this way, the Constellation doesn't have to be all that impressive a ship, as long as it can reliably defeat the average Bird-of-Prey while being fast and sensor-y enough to catch it.
 
Well member world and Starfleet logistics ships are updated, though the affiliate numbers are now out of date. @OneirosTheWriter I don't suppose we can get the new freighter and cargo ship numbers for our affiliates? Or would you rather wait until the MWCO report next quarter?
 
Hmm, we're"only" under by 8 freighters and 10 cargo ships? The latter are only 400kt and there are a lot of sub-1mt berths around. With Development throwing their weight around I expect a bunch of cargo ship options in Shipyard Ops. Freighters will be harder but I expect at least a couple member world options and the rest we will be opening up berths for. It might be a few years but the crunch shouldn't take too much time to overcome...

We really need an Aux yard at UP with a cargo ship berths and another 4 aux slots...
 
nocarename said:
New crunchy logistics numbers!
We are now listed as being short: 8 freighters and 10 cargo ships.

Let the arguments debate begin!
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Briefvoices plan has three berths free for AUX, 3 new AUX berths, and 3 new General berths, if we add another three berths next year (Amarkia expansion, Apinae expo, New Indoria) we should overcome the deficit in 5 years (I think), then in 5 years we hopefully have the budget to use them ourselves, or we lease them to members or other arms of starfleet (hospitals, surveyors, engineering, colony etc).
 
So, having just finished reading all the trademarked posts, I have a brilliant plan for ensuring the war with Cardassia doesn't start until we want it to: keep the Courageous deployed as far from the Cardies as possible. From past experience, we know that our wars are presaged by our soon-to-be-enemies almost blowing her up, so if we keep her out of their reach we won't end up at war.
 
Forgothrax said:
Hmm, we're"only" under by 8 freighters and 10 cargo ships? The latter are only 400kt and there are a lot of sub-1mt berths around. With Development throwing their weight around I expect a bunch of cargo ship options in Shipyard Ops. Freighters will be harder but I expect at least a couple member world options and the rest we will be opening up berths for. It might be a few years but the crunch shouldn't take too much time to overcome...

We really need an Aux yard at UP with a cargo ship berths and another 4 aux slots...
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The freighters go faster (allowing for at least 4 years) if we start allowing for super freighters, of course, but the break points get weirder and the options are wider If anyone wants to set some constraints on how many superfreighters we might want to try I'm willing to pump out some options there, but I'm not willing to do an exhaustive set of charts across the whole solution space for something to just get shot down.

I need to sleep sometime after all. :p
TyrialFrost said:
Briefvoices plan has three berths free for AUX, 3 new AUX berths, and 3 new General berths, if we add another three berths next year (Amarkia expansion, Apinae expo, New Indoria) we should overcome the deficit in 5 years (I think), then in 5 years we hopefully have the budget to use them ourselves, or we lease them to members or other arms of starfleet (hospitals, surveyors, engineering, colony etc).
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Uhh. No?
Two of the three free ones are already logged into planning my chart. The three Auxiliary berths are what we need to tread water according to the Development Party estimates. Three general berths (Breifvoice's), plus another three general berths (Yours) only gets us to 6 berths. That gets us to 7 years, 6 if we can find room somewhere to tuck in another cargo ship.

If we didn't need to keep up with ongoing increases in demand you would be correct though.
 
The Sandman said:
So, having just finished reading all the trademarked posts, I have a brilliant plan for ensuring the war with Cardassia doesn't start until we want it to: keep the Courageous deployed as far from the Cardies as possible. From past experience, we know that our wars are presaged by our soon-to-be-enemies almost blowing her up, so if we keep her out of their reach we won't end up at war.
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UbeOne said:
You want Courageous to be a coward?
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She'll find some other horrible thing for us to fight, I'm sure.

The Sandman said:
As far as OC races go, you know who I'm surprised we haven't run into? The Lampreys.
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Old meme is fucking old! Don't bring it up again.
 
"Starbase sensors spotted ghost. Investigated. Found cloaked Romulan heavy warbird which fled."
 
Nix said:
Sometimes extra updates are posted somewhere in the thread to get feedback, but due to the 20 image limit it's a bit too much of a pain to add them here.
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I thought the image limit was within a post, not across a whole thread?

Conventions involved in the depiction evolved in a constant conflict between usability, realism and consistency with precious quest canon. Grid lines were originally supposed to be 10 light years apart. This is consistent with the few distances explicitly mentioned in the quest as well as real distances from Sol to Alpha Centauri, Vega and various stars with Eridani in their name and also with the TOS warp scale, but inconsistent with stellar density and the width of the galactic disc. No depiction that would be compatible with both of the latter is possible, stellar density would call for something on the order of 20-40 light years, width of the galactic disc for several hundred light years. It is recommended to avoid the topic, but if necessary the 10 light years scale can be used and is preferable to the alternatives.
The plane Sol lies on is referred to as the galactic plane (Sol is actually about 60 light years above the real galactic plane, but unfortunately we found out about that a bit too late). A light grey vertical line from an object to the center of a light grey ellipse indicates distance to the galactic plane (z-axis). The center of the ellipse corresponds to the vertical projection of the object onto the galactic plane. Assumed viewing angle is 75°, from rimward above. Except for Sol and Alpha Centauri lack of such an indication indicates that the z-axis location is unknown, though objects are treated as being very close to the galactic plane unless indicated otherwise.
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For the most part, we're basically modeling the galaxy as a 2D plane, with very few exceptions mostly for fluff. The only time I've seen it matter even remotely was that Fenris IV colony "beneath" Dawiar space.

We can hand-wave that all the various worlds and locations are at significantly different z-axis to introduce some measure of realism, but in gameplay (specifically during crises), that's all abstracted out so that everything is projected onto a 2D plane for movement speeds and transit times and such.

Things we know the name of, and know the location of IC, but not OOC:
  • The Ashindi, somewhere rimward of the Seyek.
  • The Obar, probably coreward and/or spinward of the Honiani.
  • The major Federation worlds of Hagellan (Vulcan), Kadann (Andorian), Laudon (Rigellian), Abadan (Rigellian), Vidotti (Indorian) and Thunti (Gaeni).
  • The major Honiani worlds of Becarra and Ucuta.
  • The major Cardassian world of Todamak, probably somewhere in -3k:-6j.
Things we know the location of IC:
  • A major ISC world, probably in 5d or 6d.
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1) It's Hagelan (single L)

2) Interestingly, we have councilors for two worlds that are listed as minor worlds - so they might actually be major worlds?
Sardry IV (Andor) - logistics posts only lists this as a Starfleet industry hub, G&W status post shows "Industrial Assets [Transporter Fabrication]"
Lalande (Human) - logistics posts only lists this as a Starfleet industry hub and UESPA logistics source, G&W status post shows "Resource Assets, Industrial Assets [Deflector Emitters]"

3) I think you can take some initiative here. I've seen Oneiros approve your tentative map updates before (like sector boundaries and some minor colonies IIRC), so you can take a stab again now.

4) Maybe put some edge-of-map arrow indicators for Ittick-ka (rimward of Qloathi and Dawiar and Lecarre) and Ferengi (coreward and spinward)?

nocarename said:
This table assumes no super freighters and, unless noted, no borrowed or other free berths. It doesn't cover any efforts to increase Starfleet's engineering capacity. It does not include any auxiliaries currently under construction. It also assumes that all involved berths are available immediately.
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Just to be sure, this is taking into account the Lasieth aux shipyard that's generally dedicating 3 berths to transport logistics, right?
 
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UbeOne said:
"Starbase sensors spotted ghost. Investigated. Found cloaked Romulan heavy warbird which fled."
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Personal Log, Rear Admiral Michael Thuir, Stardate 26190.5

Q showed up again. We visited Paris circa 2000, before the war. Old Earth was beautiful, in its own way. It's one thing to view the Eiffel tower in a holo, but it's another to be at its top. We then had a nice dinner at a restaurant on the banks of the river Seine.

-... I'm not sure why I decided to write this. In my headcanon, Q visits Thuir, and Thuir trolls Q by pretending to not notice all of the flags. Also, Doctor Q.
 
lbmaian said:
Just to be sure, this is taking into account the Lasieth aux shipyard that's generally dedicating 3 berths to transport logistics, right?
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That got skipped because...
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
The Lasieth shipyard is going to need to churn out hospital ships and other aux like prospectors. Making three freighters there won't likely be viable after these sets of builds given that we have a hospital ship quota.
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Pretty much, yeah.
Existing Auxiliary production capacity is booked heavily so to even just tread water we're going to need another three berths doing logistics construction on top of what I've listed in the chart.
Assuming that logistics command has the resources and crew squirrelled away once we start banging these hulls out, that is.
 
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