- Location
- Austin, TX
Perhaps a zoomed in view of the GBZ while we're busy there?
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Perhaps a zoomed in view of the GBZ while we're busy there?
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'd be amenable to allowing civilian colonies on a case-by-case basis, with substantial member investment in defenses.
IE: In particularly rich systems, with each civilian colony (not, system, COLONY) getting a reinforced outpost or starbase.
I'd be a LOT more amenable if we could duplicate the effect of Iron Hail so defensive installations cover each other.
IE: In particularly rich systems, with each civilian colony (not, system, COLONY) getting a reinforced outpost or starbase.
I'd be a LOT more amenable if we could duplicate the effect of Iron Hail so defensive installations cover each other.
- Location
- USA
[X] [PLAN] Plan Kepler and Weapon Shuffle
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
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Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan No Shuffling FTW
-[X] 40 Eridani A : 2310s Warp Propulsion -> Kepler Project
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division : 2320s Penetrating Nadions
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team : Primitive Phaser Arrays
-[X] Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute : 2320s Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia 2320s Explorer - Science
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Team 1, Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team
Rationale: We need Phaser Arrays and we need them quickly, because they are the key to an early Amby refit as well as the proposed Light Explorer/ It will take 12 years for both Primitive and Production Arrays to be completed even with a Skill 2 Team. A Generic team will take even longer despite boosting, and given that we are going to see a wealth of new research teams shortly (the multiple memberships coming up as well as the graduation of our Generic teams) I fear that our income for Boosting is going to take a major hit.
Per Oneiros, completion of arrays is likely to trigger a refit option to bring the Amby's teeth up to par. This would also be an excellent opportunity for us, because almost 10% of the frame space is unused due to berth restrictions. We will have berths capable of supporting a full-sized Amby due to new techs by the time Arrays are done, so we will be able to expand the Amby's capabilities quickly. I suspect that a +1C/S/L/P is possible given the additional space and the weight reduction that comes with both burst launchers and arrays on a frame as large as the Ambassador.
T2 Torpedoes, on the other hand, can take the 5 years it will take a Generic team to finish them. We won't need them for the Miranda replacement as SWB has a perfectly good design that doesn't use Burst Launchers or T2 torps. They just aren't that vital.
To Boldly Go is the best option for Doctrine, because it unlocks event boosters as well as reduction of events in the core sectors. This is helpful because we're going to be incentivized to post ships in the BZs and having all our events there is beneficial as well.
Added boosts.
-[X] 40 Eridani A : 2310s Warp Propulsion -> Kepler Project
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division : 2320s Penetrating Nadions
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team : Primitive Phaser Arrays
-[X] Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute : 2320s Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia 2320s Explorer - Science
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Team 1, Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team
Rationale: We need Phaser Arrays and we need them quickly, because they are the key to an early Amby refit as well as the proposed Light Explorer/ It will take 12 years for both Primitive and Production Arrays to be completed even with a Skill 2 Team. A Generic team will take even longer despite boosting, and given that we are going to see a wealth of new research teams shortly (the multiple memberships coming up as well as the graduation of our Generic teams) I fear that our income for Boosting is going to take a major hit.
Per Oneiros, completion of arrays is likely to trigger a refit option to bring the Amby's teeth up to par. This would also be an excellent opportunity for us, because almost 10% of the frame space is unused due to berth restrictions. We will have berths capable of supporting a full-sized Amby due to new techs by the time Arrays are done, so we will be able to expand the Amby's capabilities quickly. I suspect that a +1C/S/L/P is possible given the additional space and the weight reduction that comes with both burst launchers and arrays on a frame as large as the Ambassador.
T2 Torpedoes, on the other hand, can take the 5 years it will take a Generic team to finish them. We won't need them for the Miranda replacement as SWB has a perfectly good design that doesn't use Burst Launchers or T2 torps. They just aren't that vital.
To Boldly Go is the best option for Doctrine, because it unlocks event boosters as well as reduction of events in the core sectors. This is helpful because we're going to be incentivized to post ships in the BZs and having all our events there is beneficial as well.
Added boosts.
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[X] [PLAN] Base Plan Kepler and Weapon Shuffle
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
More like *Stesk squinting in suspicion*
Do I recall this being a point of contention among the SDBers? Or am I thinking of something else?
I agree. Fundamentally, what's the rush? In five or ten years the borders of territory in the Gabriel Expanse may be locked down by treaty and civilian settlement will be safe. In the grand sweep of colonizing new worlds, what's ten years? Nothing. The tactical flexibility of being able to abandon the entire Gabriel Expanse and fly our entire GBZ fleet into the heart of Cardassia far outweighs whatever paltry award in political will we might reap.
EDIT: Or to put it more bluntly... do you want the Maquis? Because this is how we get the Maquis.
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Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What specifically are you referring to?
- Location
- Austin, TX
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan No Shuffling FTW
-[X] 40 Eridani A : 2310s Warp Propulsion -> Kepler Project
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division : 2320s Penetrating Nadions
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team : Primitive Phaser Arrays
-[X] Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute : 2320s Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia 2320s Explorer - Science
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
-[X] 40 Eridani A : 2310s Warp Propulsion -> Kepler Project
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division : 2320s Penetrating Nadions
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team : Primitive Phaser Arrays
-[X] Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute : 2320s Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia 2320s Explorer - Science
[X] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : To Boldly Go
- Location
- somewhere
Again, you are completely misrepresenting the situation and the rationale behind the shuffling plan. The merits of T2 torpedoes vs phaser arrays are mostly beside the point, you would need to argue the merits of phaser arrays vs offensive doctrine projects, while taking into account that the delay to phaser arrays would be much smaller. Also this was the whole reason for making the team weapons/offensive doctrine in the first place and had been discussed long beforehand, at least since 2313. You could have raised this argument earlier, before we recruited a team designed for the plan you are critizising and instead suggested a second specialisation that would make sense for your plan.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
As BV said, shouldn't we have picked up 20 more SR this quarter that was mentioned in last quarter's GBZ update?
Also, is that "30br available for pickup" scheduled for next quarter as usual?
The new SR mine option is nice, but not as amazing as the Apiata finds this quarter.
Dang, I know the Amarki hit it big last quarter with that amazing double class M planet find, but the Apiata have been raking it in so far this year.
Remember how it seemed their new income was so skewed toward BR, to the point that they were wondering whether they should develop a Heavy Stinger? Well, not anymore! Both 20sr/yr and 30sr/yr mines discovered!!
This section is missing the Caitian GBZ forces. I still think this "Member World Assets" section is completely redundant with the "Assets" section.
Also, have the new Apiata reinforcements arrived yet? I don't see a third Apiata queenship-based battle formation yet.
It occurs to me that, technically, the Ariel V-8 [15 (20) br/yr] colony site that S'harien discovered in 2312.Q3.M1 should be listed here.
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I like the naming scheme for the Renaissance class!
We don't need them that quickly. As Nix says, the point is to have the Prograde team do the Torpedoes quickly and then move them to Offensive Doctrine research, not to keep the on Weapons forever. Offensive Doctrine research will yield better benefits overall than Phaser Arrays.
Doctrines are some of our most lucrative technologies when it comes to rewards.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [PLAN] Base Plan Kepler and Weapon Shuffle
-[X] 40 Eridani A : 2310s Warp Propulsion -> Kepler Project
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division : 2320s Penetrating Nadions
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team : 2310s Torpedo Development
-[X] Generic Team 2: 2310s Torpedo Development -> Primitive Phaser Arrays
-[X] Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute : 2320s Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia 2320s Explorer - Science
[x] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : Frontline Infrastructure
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
-[X] 40 Eridani A : 2310s Warp Propulsion -> Kepler Project
-[X] Weapons Fabrication Division : 2320s Penetrating Nadions
-[X] Starfleet Tactical Prograde Operations Team : 2310s Torpedo Development
-[X] Generic Team 2: 2310s Torpedo Development -> Primitive Phaser Arrays
-[X] Starfleet Infectious Diseases Institute : 2320s Trauma Medicine
-[X] Utopia Planitia 2320s Explorer - Science
[x] [DOCTRINE] Apinae Protective Engineering Bureau : Frontline Infrastructure
[X] [BOOST] Vulcan Science Academy, Weapons Fabrication Division, 40 Eridani A, Generic Teams 1, 2.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
Yes, but we'd probably need to leave a ship there anyways.
Yes, and Yes.
If there's a tech, or a part, there will always be a "is it worth it" dispute.
I lean towards torpedoes, because next in our design schedule is the next-gen escort.
Escorts are torpedo ships, because torpedoes are cheap.
I suspect the Amarki would like to have some concrete flashy benefit to their military spending they can show to their populace. The other races would probably also enjoy the added guarantee that all that they build now wont be destroyed the moment the cardassians manage to outmaneuver starfleet a bit.
Eh, I would suspect that once they establish fully fledged civilian colonies (which I think is still a bad idea since this is still more or less an active warzone) a lot of those ressources will be "consumed" by them, after all maintaining the high standards of living that are common in teh Federation can't be very cheap.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
The thing is, you do that to a building full of scientists and engineers, notably scientists and engineers that're already identified as being weird...
Resident Scientist: "We've got a half hour, let's grab lunch. Cafeteria is this way."
Visiting Bureaucrat: "Recommend anything?"
Resident Scientist: "The salad bar is excellent, the burgers are good when they have them, if we're lucky they- ooh, biophage stew!"
Visiting Bureaucrat:
Resident Scientist: "...Whoops. Uh."
Visiting Bureaucrat: "...What."
Resident Scientist: "The, uh, vindaloo. Old traditional dish from Earth. Extremely spicy. And chunky. With meat in it."
Visiting Bureaucrat: "Okay... :|"
Resident Scientist: "And, uh, you see the posters everywhere, about joking about weaponizing the biophage?"
Visiting Bureaucrat: "I do."
Resident Scientist: "Well, a year or so ago, when they'd just gone up, Shrek over in torp theory decided he didn't like the tone and was feeling cheeky. So he wrote up a whole satirical thesis and proposal for gastronomizing the biophage."
Visiting Bureaucrat: "Gastronomizing."
Resident Scientist: "Eating it. Yeah. Like, they said 'weaponize', so it's okay to talk about it if it's for a constructive purpose, right? Anyway, he's also a gourmet cook, tries to eat everything, and he was kind of annoyed with the cafeteria's attempt at vindaloo so he, uh, mentioned it. And made fun of it. In the proposal."
Visiting Bureaucrat: "..."
Resident Scientist: "So now the vindaloo is unofficially 'biophage stew'. And the cooks heard and got angry, so now it's the best dish on the menu."
Visiting Bureaucrat: *regretting ever visiting Prograde*
I spent seven years in an academic research lab. This is absolutely what would happen. Complete with the mandatory sensitivity training that'd follow this little event.
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lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
As long as they are willing to commit reinforcements and prioritize construction of outposts and other defensive structures, I'm generally okay with it. We've seen how powerful stationary defenses are. But it's a case by case thing.
In the Amarki's case, I'm definitely for it for a couple reasons:
1) They've invested a lot into their military buildup and they're counting on the GBZ to avoid breaking their bank, so to speak. Huge political and diplomatic battle if we drag our feet here.
2) Speaking of that military buildup, what do we expect them to do with their new ships they're constructing?
3) Take a look at where the Miele subsector is. It's practically right next door to Apiata space, behind the mass of colonies and defenses in a whole subsector (the ones with Sguirri and Collie) that a hostile Cardassian force would have to bypass just to get at Tal Hanar and the other new Amarkian colony sites.
4) Recent events are strongly indicating that the Sydraxians will no longer remain a threat. They may not be allied, but at least they won't be hostile for the foreseeable future. (Until we decide to assign Thirishar to the SBZ and it bombs a critical presence test
)In the Apiata's case, it's less clear-cut. On the one hand, they have more forces than the Amarki, both in the GBZ and in their reserves, but they're also on the "front lines" there.
The primary downside is operational inflexibility and risk for Starfleet. But I think with the weight of our forces, production, and diplomacy, I'm willing to take that risk.
Forgothrax
Not Going Gently
- Pronouns
- He/Him
With boosts, Primitive Phaser Arrays would finish at the same time as T2 Torpedoes. This would allow the graduated Generic 2 to work on Production Phaser Arrays while we swap Prograde to Offensive Doctrine. Given that even if we put Games&Theory on Offensive Doctrine next year it will take 2-4 years depending on the doctrine we choose (Base Strike will take 2 years with a Boost, others will take 4) it will take most if not all of the time Prograde will be occupied just to unlock the Offensive Doctrine anyway. Offensive Doctrine research will be minimally delayed, if at all.
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Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I think it's been established in this quest that the resources we use for making our ships aren't used much elsewhere. Like most colonies are powered by a fusion generator running off hydrogen, not dilithium. And you don't need duranium to build houses.
Let's distinguish between material rewards and feel-good rewards. The Amarki are getting their mining colonies, which feed directly back into their budget as payoff for the military payoff. Civilian colonies won't "return to bank" at all, and in fact will cost them additional resources for a long time to come. Planting some colonies would likely yield them the Amarki equivalent of political will, but it's not like they'd be unable to understand Starfleet's logic if we tell them it's still too soon.
Defend their mining colonies, which can still be easily evacuated and abandoned (maybe only temporarily) if a Cardassian fleet sweeps in and we have to make a tactical retreat.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
By "bank", I am including political will in that. The Apiata and Amarki (Caitian maybe less so) are out here not just to exploit the resources but stake actual colonization claims. As I said, it'll reek of feet dragging to the Amarki if they aren't allowed to start full scale colonization. Civilian colonization may not be industrially productive or otherwise useful for years, but short-term benefits is not the only criteria to consider.
Particularly for the Miele subsector, probably the safest subsector in the GBZ due to its location and the danger context. At what point should we consider it safe enough for civilian colonization?
Honestly, I would love it if we could just greenlight subsectors individually. Once they're far enough from the "front lines" and/or fortified enough, when they reach some threshold of safety, open the colonization floodgates there.