It's very un treky to direct the large raiding and pillaging group through a swath of sentient beings territory.

It's not biophage, but it's walking towards that ballpark.
We are sending them through Cardassian space. I consider it a good trade off if the space nomads cause enough damage to set the Cardassians back several years and give us some breathing room to build more starships and what ever else we need to build for the coming war. Who know maybe if they cause enough damage Starfleet wont have to worry about massive casualties and can just walk in and dictate terms to the survivors.
 
Pheromonal orders are necessarily imprecise and take time to provoke the desired response, because it takes time for a smell to propagate through the air.

It's a good thing bridge literally controls almost all major functions of the ship in one room then, isn't it?

And whether they're associated with the Hurq is more "icing on an obscenely-shaped cake" than strictly relevant. The Klingons would probably attack them on the principle of being like the Hurq. They may not be the only ones. I can't imagine the Orions or Rigellians or any of the older species being particularly pleased to hear that anything like the Hurq is in the area.
 
That's only helping us if we actually have an explorer present in the sector, though. A lot of our sector fleets no longer have explorer flagships, or never did.

We have 8 sectors and 6 border zones. Of those 14, 3 of the sectors and 5 of the border zones have one or more Excelsiors or will have them by 3rd quarter of this year. So slightly over half.

The second problem was the lack of ships in Rigel sector. They just straight-up had no means to respond to what happened there. Notably, Rigel is a border sector, which means it gets event rolls that involve our relations with species outside Federation space. We should be garrisoning it like it was a border zone, not trying to do the absolute minimum necessary. But we can't maintain a massive Gabriel Expanse fleet against an anticipated Cardassian attack (still unclear why we anticipate attack there this year), AND have plenty of ships to cover RIgel Sector and so on.

At the moment there are two ships there, Renaissance and Selaya, and apparently BOTH of them triggered events in Q1M1, followed by yet a third event triggering in Q1M2. That's enough to just plain overwhelm us in most sectors; we don't actually have that many sectors with a three-ship fleet.

I'm a little unclear why Rigel sector got three events in a single quarter, yes. It has only one member world, contains extra affiliates. Was sort of hoping that Honiani/Yan-Ros events might get responses from the Licori Border Zone or Sydraxian Border Zone fleets.

Now, doing a count... all of Starfleet, not counting the Explorer Corps, is... nine explorers, nine modern cruisers, seven Constellations, four science vessels, and twenty-three frigates. That's fifty-two ships, not counting ships in repairs or refits. We also have eight normal sectors and six border zones, counting the Gabriel Expanse as a border zone.

Not counting ships in repair/refit:
2 Miranda (2 more currently in refit)
11 Miranda-A
8 Centaur-A
4 Oberth
7 Constellation (2 going into refit in Q3)
1 Renaissance
1 Constitution-A
9 Constitution-B
7 non-EC Excelsiors/Excelsiors-A (2 more in repair/refit)

I think the Sydraxians themselves would have to openly take that step by denouncing their ties to the Ashalla Pact. That said, if @AKuz 's post is to be taken at face value, the Greens are actually a pro-Romulan faction of the existing Hierarchy government, not a bunch of revolutionaries. So basically, this faction is willing to work either with us or with the Romulans... which come to think of it is not so bad. Worst case, I'd rather have a Romulan client on that flank than a Cardassian one, because I think we're less likely to wind up fighting the Romulans.

I don't really see the gain in it for the Romulans.
 
However we deal with these nomads, it's going to be a very morally gray area. Unless they don't do raiding and theft and piracy and all that stuff, in that case, let them go through the UFP, no issue with that at all.
 
However we deal with these nomads, it's going to be a very morally gray area. Unless they don't do raiding and theft and piracy and all that stuff, in that case, let them go through the UFP, no issue with that at all.
We are not that lucky. Just point them in the direction of Cardassian space and forget about them until the fireworks start. Than sit back and enjoy the show.
 
The ineffable Councillor Stesk in particular has taken Starfleet to task for focusing, in his opinion, too strongly on the Gabriel Border Zone and, and the President for her militant adventurism, causing a shortage of assets for important aid and diplomacy.
...honestly, he's right. Is the GBZ even worth all these missed events?
 
Missed events generate mild pp losses and maybe minor relationship hits. Draw down the GBZ too much and the Cardies will eat our lunch.
 
I rather think it is. A few missed Events simply aren't that big of a deal.

They kind of are, as responding to strange events in UFP space is kind of Starfleet's job. In some ways the GBZ is very much against standard UFP and SF policy, as it's a colonial land grab contest against a foreign power. That's not how the UFP is supposed to operate.

Stesk isn't wrong to express disappointment.


Of course, part of the problem is that Starfleet has basically been forced to grow twice as large in less than a decade just to keep up with territorial demands, and that doesn't count the stacking demands of a new belligerent nation on our border, a massive star spanning war against an everything consuming abomination, breaking the Syndicate and Hypercorporation hold on the Orions and everything else.

In some ways the fact that we aren't allowed to ratify more members is a good thing; it gives Starfleet time to catch its breath and build up its forces in preparation for the next expansion wave.
 
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To be fair, we probably CAN afford to draw down the fleet in the GBZ a little, and pull a few Mirandas and cruisers to thicken the garrisons of key sectors that only have two ships (like Rigel and Ferasa). The Cardassians probably can't just casually roll over our whole force once we take into account the member world fleets present.

It's a good thing bridge literally controls almost all major functions of the ship in one room then, isn't it?
...That does not remotely address my point.

Pheromonal communication cannot say "warp factor six" as opposed to "seven." It cannot say "turn left" instead of "turn right." It cannot say "evacuate decks three and four, specifically" or "emergency power to the forward phaser banks" or any of a variety of other highly specific life-or-death commands that need to be given precisely without risk of misunderstanding.

Importantly, pheromonal cues cannot easily say "I'm very stressed out right now, but my judgment tells me that we should refrain from doing anything rash" or "I'm afraid of dying if we do this, but we have to do it anyway."

Moreover, if it is standard practice for Apiata crews to rely on pheromonal cues as a main channel of communication for critical information during combat, then anything that interferes with their ability to sniff the air their commanding officer is sweating into will cause problems. Like being in Main Engineering because you need to report on the status of ongoing repairs, something that cannot be done by sitting on the bridge- someone has to be back there actually doing the repairs!

Yes, ants and bees rely heavily on pheromones. So do a lot of other animals. This is because ants and bees are very stupid creatures, and even the most complicated things they do are extremely simple (and often poorly coordinated) compared to the things intelligent tool-using creatures aboard a starship have to do.

Dogs can communicate a lot to other dogs by peeing on trees. That's not because peeing on trees would be an efficient form of communication for the Gretarians in a time-critical situation.

I don't really see the gain in it for the Romulans.
Done right, it might cost the Romulans virtually nothing: it pisses off aliens they don't care about, and they have to send some Tal Shiar agents to help out with a few select assassinations and things. And it gains them a significant advantage- more reason for the Federation to value continued good relations with the Romulans!

Think about it. If the Klingons get mad, the consequences are mostly confined to a single area of the Federation. If the Romulans get mad at the moment, again, single area of the Federation. But if the Cardassians get mad? We've got trouble hitting us from three directions at once, and that's been one of the main reasons we're so worried about the Cardassians. The Romulans may want that advantage for themselves. Especially since unlike the Cardassians they've already adopted a stance of negotiating and being 'good neighbors' with us.

I suspect that virtually all 'good neighbor' relations among Romulans involve both parties having very good reasons NOT to want the other party as an enemy. It just seems a natural fit for Romulan culture. So no wonder they want 'insurance policies' to make sure that we continue to not want the Romulans as enemies.

However we deal with these nomads, it's going to be a very morally gray area. Unless they don't do raiding and theft and piracy and all that stuff, in that case, let them go through the UFP, no issue with that at all.
The most UFP-ey way to do this would be to closely escort the nomads' fleets through our space while watching them closely and assigning them specific systems as rest stops along the way, I think.

Let's NOT use them as weapons against anyone else, though.
 
On the second thought sending the Hishmeri Septs fleet through Lecarrens and Cardassian space would be a great way of trashing the stalemate and messing up and reducing their navel deployment in exchange for our resource bribes and intel against the Cardassian who would take resources at the point of the gun.

Of course if the council being all peace minded, we can tone it down by sending them skirting Lecarrens and Cardassian ramming right into the Cardassian's GBZ bases for more loot and sadly the Dylaarians. Hence Starfeet wins.
If there's raids into Lecarrens and Cardassian on the way, well that's unfortunate since they gotten eat sometimes.
With all our best wishes for their long journey to the core since I don't see them being Cardassian clients.

Honesty I'm hoping they go through Lecarrens and Cardassian space since we can clean up the mess after all the damage Hishmeri Septs did with our big attack following on their heels to finally shatter their power and influence and of course humanitarian aid, this way we don't have to worry about them being all ready to wage a large scale war against us.

Talk about killing two birds with a stone since Hishmeri Septs get their resources, fight against a weaker power than two peer powers in a row on the way and we get end the future war that could severely damage our infrastructure to killing our favourite captains and named characters with big effect.

They seem to be raiders not suicidical fanatics - there is little profit in attacking any single one of the great galatic powers and I highly doubt we, as the federation, would have the know how or political will to convince them to do so.
 
They kind of are, as responding to strange events in UFP space is kind of Starfleet's job. In some ways the GBZ is very much against standard UFP and SF policy, as it's a colonial land grab contest against a foreign power. That's not how the UFP is supposed to operate.

Stesk isn't wrong to express disappointment.

I'm not going to argue "supposed to operate", but I think that keeping a very strong force in the GBZ has gone a long way to preventing conflict there over the last year, as the Cardassians have judged it too costly a fight. -10pp here or there is a small price to pay for not having exploded frigates and crippled cruisers.

That said, a moderate draw-down in the GBZ may be in order in 2317. I'm thinking that we take the Kumari for refit and don't replace it with anything, plus maybe draw off a couple of frigates to reinforce our sector fleets elsewhere.

Done right, it might cost the Romulans virtually nothing: it pisses off aliens they don't care about, and they have to send some Tal Shiar agents to help out with a few select assassinations and things. And it gains them a significant advantage- more reason for the Federation to value continued good relations with the Romulans!

Think about it. If the Klingons get mad, the consequences are mostly confined to a single area of the Federation. If the Romulans get mad at the moment, again, single area of the Federation. But if the Cardassians get mad? We've got trouble hitting us from three directions at once, and that's been one of the main reasons we're so worried about the Cardassians. The Romulans may want that advantage for themselves. Especially since unlike the Cardassians they've already adopted a stance of negotiating and being 'good neighbors' with us.

But by definition it sort of has to cost the Romulans something, or what exactly are the Sydraxians getting out of the deal? If the Romulans aren't going to provide resources or technology or at the very least a promise of mutual defense the Sydraxians are exchanging one master for another to no gain. No shade on the Tal Shiar, but I'm sure the Sydraxians are perfectly capable of managing their own assassinations.
 
I'm not going to argue "supposed to operate", but I think that keeping a very strong force in the GBZ has gone a long way to preventing conflict there over the last year, as the Cardassians have judged it too costly a fight. -10pp here or there is a small price to pay for not having exploded frigates and crippled cruisers.

That said, a moderate draw-down in the GBZ may be in order in 2317. I'm thinking that we take the Kumari for refit and don't replace it with anything, plus maybe draw off a couple of frigates to reinforce our sector fleets elsewhere.



But by definition it sort of has to cost the Romulans something, or what exactly are the Sydraxians getting out of the deal? If the Romulans aren't going to provide resources or technology or at the very least a promise of mutual defense the Sydraxians are exchanging one master for another to no gain. No shade on the Tal Shiar, but I'm sure the Sydraxians are perfectly capable of managing their own assassinations.

Imagine Sydraxians with cloaks.
 
If we can safely draw down from the GBZ than where do we send the ships we take out of the GBZ. Realistically we want to send them where they can do the most good.
 
The most UFP-ey way to do this would be to closely escort the nomads' fleets through our space while watching them closely and assigning them specific systems as rest stops along the way, I think.

Let's NOT use them as weapons against anyone else, though.

We might not have a different option.

I'm not going to argue "supposed to operate", but I think that keeping a very strong force in the GBZ has gone a long way to preventing conflict there over the last year, as the Cardassians have judged it too costly a fight. -10pp here or there is a small price to pay for not having exploded frigates and crippled cruisers.

Oh certainly, the massive UFP pressence in the GBZ has gone a long way towards intimidating the Cardassians into staying quiet. However, the UFP is an ideal, pacifistic society in concept, that is willing to fight when it must but otherwise much prefers not to. Declaring the GBZ basically a free for all is counter to that intent. It'd have been more fitting if the UFP's diplomats basically ground the Cardassians and their clients down in negotiations while noone touched the GBZ.

Not that that would've ever happened with the Cardassians, but that'd have been the more fitting resolution.
 
Pheromonal communication cannot say "warp factor six" as opposed to "seven."

To be blunt: you don't know that. You are approaching this entirely backwards. Sure, actual bees can't do so (on the other hand they can communicate fairly precise directions using pheromones and what amount to extended gestures), but bees are not able to process complex concepts and so would not evolve the ability to communicate them that way. Apiata are able to process complex concepts, and therefore it would be reasonable for them to develop a way to communicate them that way. If you tell me that it's impossible for most outside species to speak Apiata at more than a high-school level because they can't match the additional pheromone/gesture combinations that make up much of its nuance, or that highly technical subjects involve a great deal of pheromone signaling and thus Apiata engineers often find it difficult to communicate with other species, that would make perfect sense.

But more seriously you're ignoring that even being able to communicate non-complex concepts like "be alert" or "no threat" pheromonally would still have a serious impact on how they behave. A lot of things that might slip under the radar on another species' bridge, like a sensor ghost, will cause the entire bridge crew to suddenly become hyper-alert because the person who saw it will put out pheromones about a possible threat. A non-Apiata will see it happen, but have no idea what's going on.
 
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If the nomads are interested in trade, then having them pass through an arc to Orion and then back out of federation space may be a win-win.
 
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