Remove ads

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Linked contents
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
Reader mode
Briefvoice said:
True. Spending ten years as a commodore before making rear admiral is far from unreasonable, and Mrr'shan was promoted directly to captain when she took over the Enterprise.



Quiet, that's supposed to be a surprise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Mrr'shan had half a year on a Centaur-A, I think Lightning before the Enterprise, but it was still pretty quick. Ajam was the one we promoted to EC right away.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Because most of them are Explorer Captains to be exactly that, not to climb the ladder.
Keeping them ship-sized or nearby is doing them a favor, not hindering them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They aren't going to be ship captains anymore either way. And the only ones of them who have shown any indication in that direction are ka'Sharren and Straak anyway. Thuir in particular gained our attention due to making a anti-adventurous common sense decision that was diametrically opposed to typical EC behavior, always was ambivalent about his position in the EC during his time, never made any noises towards desiring a second 5YM, has never expressed any particular displeasure at having a desk job, and has specifically expressed relief about not being involved personally in some of the specific headaches of EC captains afterwards. Apparently he only wanted to be EC captain in the first place because it was a prestigious position and the sort of thing a right thinking Starfleet officer should want, not because the specific features of the job appealed to him in particular.
 
Nix said:
They aren't going to be ship captains anymore either way. And the only ones of them who have shown any indication in that direction are ka'Sharren and Straak anyway. Thuir in particular gained our attention due to making a anti-adventurous common sense decision that was diametrically opposed to typical EC behavior, always was ambivalent about his position in the EC during his time, never made any noises towards desiring a second 5YM, has never expressed any particular displeasure at having a desk job, and has specifically expressed relief about not being involved personally in some of the specific headaches of EC captains afterwards. Apparently he only wanted to be EC captain in the first place because it was a prestigious position and the sort of thing a right thinking Starfleet officer should want, not because the specific features of the job appealed to him in particular.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Let's just talk about in terms of what's good for their career, then. While rapid promotion can be good, at the very highest ranks (Vice Admiral or Commander) you're really looking for a burnished resume where officer is familiar with all aspects of Starfleet. Keeping them at lower rank for a few extra years isn't necessarily bad for their career as long as they're doing something different from their prior postings and racking up new experiences for that eventual attempt to reach Vice Admrial. That's harder to achieve as a Rear Admiral than as a Commodore, simply because there are fewer Rear Admiral postings.

Leila Hann said:
Rogers/Seruk 2320?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I know the odds of Mars flipping to the Hawks is probably very low on whatever weighted election table Oneiros uses, but it would be hilarious to see Rogers on the Council.
 
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Transfer to Starfleet Academy
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
[X][SAAVIK] Assign to Task Force - Ferasa Sector
 
Last edited:
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet

Samhaya earned the right to a second FYM, saved the Federation, if they want it. If not we can always promote them next year.

[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>

Nash's career would certainly benefit from being assigned a shore position like at Starfleet Command. It's also something that has explicitly shown to make her miserable. While you could certainly argue it for other characters Nash is one of the ones we can say for sure is in Starfleet for the adventure not the career. Throwing her into the GBZ puts her back on a starship, takes advantage of her being our most experienced task force leader, and should give the Cardassians nightmares.

[X][THUIR] Assign to Staff at Starfleet Command

I want Thuir to become the head of Starfleet someday. Getting him some experience working in Starfleet Command before promoting him to Rear Admiral should help with that.

[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau

This was a tough choice but in the end I figured Straak would get more time to study rocks in R&D then he would in Engineering Command.

[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical

Saavik hasn't been in her current posting for even a year yet. Unless someone can come up with a very compelling reason to move her I think she should stay where she is for a couple years.
 
Nervos Belli said:
None of them have more than five years in their current rank except Straak. And where are you getting that Sulu and Uhura are significantly older than their peers? Your complaints are groundless.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sulu: 2237
Uhura: 2239
ch'Vohlet: 2241 (retiring)
Erikkson: 2244 (retired)
ch'Tharvasse: 2246
Sousa: 2250
Linderley: 2253
Chen: 2257
Briefvoice said:
True. Spending ten years as a commodore before making rear admiral is far from unreasonable, and Mrr'shan was promoted directly to captain when she took over the Enterprise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Chen and Sousa made Vice Admiral at 55 and <50. Assuming they left the Academy at 22 that means an average TIR of 4.1/<3.5 years before promotion. Compared to them EC captains are already disadvantaged because they typically spend way longer than that at captain, so expecting former EC captains to be able to make Vice Admiral at the same sort of age as non-EC high fliers is already unfeasible. But also making them spend longer at Commodore for no good reason is just being ridiculously unfair to them. I want EC captains to have a reasonable chance to make Vice Admiral at 58, so they can potentially reach head of Starfleet at 65 or so.
 
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Transfer to Starfleet Academy
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Starfleet Engineering Command
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical

I roughly agree with @UberJJK above, except for Rocks, which I think Straak will encounter more of in Engineering command. On Nash I'm very split -- I like the idea of giving her more Starfleet Command experience, but I'm not sure how happy she'd be there. I like the idea of waiting until the GBZ update to move her there, but now's a good a time as any. I also think she could use some Starbase experience, but I don't know how well she'd handle Apinae, which seems the most logical one for her if we wanted to keep her in reserve for GBZ shenanigans. :D

Nix said:
Why do people want to sabotage the careers of our (former) EC captains? If they have enough merits to deserve a promotion and enough TIR to justify one they should be promoted. EC captains already have a severe disadvantage compared to other officers as far as advancement goes, our vice admirals all either never served in the EC or are much older than their peers, like Sulu and Uhura. Why deliberately vote to make that even worse?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You assume that they want to advance as soon as they can. This is often not the case in Trek, and it's wrong to assume that Nash is going to want to be made RA as soon as she can, versus of us using her where she's useful. I don't particularly view it as holding them back unless they're getting old, and Sam and Nash are 42 and 46, respectively. We can get a lot more time out of them at this rank and give them experience without necessarily holding them back.
 
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Transfer to Starfleet Academy
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Starfleet Academy
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical

I want Straak passing on his Rock Secrets to future officers. Otherwise, I agree with Iron Wolf.
 
Last edited:
Iron Wolf said:
You assume that they want to advance as soon as they can. This is often not the case in Trek, and it's wrong to assume that Nash is going to want to be made RA as soon as she can, versus of us using her where she's useful. I don't particularly view it as holding them back unless they're getting old, and Sam and Nash are 42 and 46, respectively. We can get a lot more time out of them at this rank and give them experience without necessarily holding them back.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is good precedent for preferring to be (EC-) captain over being a flag officer, and ka'Sharren and Straak actually had that preference as they made abundantly clear. We don't have any such indication from Mrr'shan (and not just due to lack of opportunity, ka'Sharren and Straak already made that clear before the end of their first FYM, Straak even before it started), and Thuir made clear he has the opposite preference. There isn't any precedent in Trek for preferring to be a Commodore over being an Admiral. It's unreasonable to assume that they wish not to be promoted unless we have specific evidence otherwise, and at least in the case of Thuir we arguably have that anyway, at least indirectly.
 
[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Expanse>
[X][THUIR] Transfer to Starfleet Academy
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Ship Design Bureau
[X][SAAVIK] Assign to Task Force - Ferasa Sector
 
I don't think that Star Fleet has that rat race of some corporations where you have to be regularly promoted or you are considered a loser and stuck forever. While some captains and commodores ceratinly want to climb the ladder, I never has the impression that Nash is one of them, so promoting her seems a rather dubious reward.

Besides, if we try to promote everyone who does a good job, we just follow the Peter Principle and everyone will end up in a position they are unsuited for.

[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Transfer to Staff at Starfleet Command
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Starfleet Engineering Command
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
 
Last edited:
Oh, hey Oneiros, you missed my Omake. Since Iron Wolf's most recent one references it, would you mind putting it in just before his latest in the threadmarks?

Edit: It's on page 1958.
 
Last edited:
Gingganz said:
I don't think that Star Fleet has that rat race of some corporations where you have to be regularly promoted or you are considered a loser and stuck forever. While some captains and commodores ceratinly want to climb the ladder, I never has the impression that Nash is one of them, so promoting her seems a rather dubious reward.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That explains why you vote against promoting her (I disagree, I think she valued being EC captain higher than climbing the ladder, but I don't see any basis at all for extrapolating that to prefering to remain a Commodore, but at least it's an explanation). Why do you vote against promoting Thuir? As for being stuck forever, Thuir is already 56. If we delay promoting him for another 5 years he will be 61 when he makes Rear Admiral, and there's a good chance he'll never make Vice Admiral before retiring.
Besides, if we try to promote everyone who does a good job, we just follow the Peter Principle and everyone will end up in a position they are unsuited for.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's stupid to promote someone only because they do a good job due to specific skills that are only relevant to their current job but not the new job. It's at least as stupid to avoid promoting someone just because they do a good job. Any factors for their current success that are expected to transfer to the new job are actually strong arguments in favor of a promotion. Do you consider Thuir to have any skills/qualities that are only relevant as Commodore, but not as Rear Admiral? As far as I can see his best qualities are common sense and being good at delegating, and he seems to be better at planning than battle field command and spur of the moment decisions.
 
Last edited:
Nix said:
Do you consider Thuir to have any skills/qualities that are only relevant as Commodore, but not as Rear Admiral? As far as I can see his best qualities are common sense and being good at delegating, and he seems to be better at planning than battle field command and spur of the moment decisions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You're right, I didn't really think enough about the Thuir vote. Changed my vote:

[X][MRR] Leave as Captain and appoint to shore billet
[X][NASH] Assign to Sector Task Force <Gabriel Border Zone>
[X][THUIR] Promote to Rear Admiral
[X][ROCK] Transfer to Starfleet Engineering Command
[X][SAAVIK] Leave in Starfleet Tactical
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top