Fallenblades643
Seeker of the Divine Taste
The answer is Yes.
You can never have enough industry, and a post scarcity society should bring that to the forefront.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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You can never have enough industry, and a post scarcity society should bring that to the forefront.
I was thinking they'd try to build something like the Federation-class (which looks like a Constitution refit to me) or the alternate timeline Galaxy Klingon war refit. Just for Excelsiors. A third nacelle would add a lot of mass to the design, on top of extra armor and stuff, possibly enough to break past 3 megatons.
It's moot though, Oneiros already said they want it just in case. Just wanted to clarify what i meant.
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- Location
- Australia
Sometimes coming up with options is the trickiest thing...
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
That doesn't make sense.
We're clearly not post-scarcity in the sense of "build as much as you want of anything you like." Not when it comes to big-ticket items like spaceships and starbases.
Therefore we have to use basic common sense about priorities. We have to build facilities we expect to be used, and we have to design our plans around our facilities.
It would be stupid of us to make the Ambassadors very slightly too big to fit in our existing berths, just so we can build a whole new set of berths that are slightly bigger, while relegating our many existing berths to the role of doing nothing but build megafreighters. Sure, we could use some more megafreighters, but not that many.
Honestly, I can't imagine any of the old 'core' Federation worlds deciding they need special refit explorers, given that their economy would never be large enough to support having more than a few such superships.
Furthermore, I can't imagine the TBG Federation's Earth thinking it urgently needs a specialist battleship Excelsior variant. Someone like the Amarki might make that decision, but then, the Amarki already have their own domestic explorer design that they're building preferentially to the Excelsiors.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
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- She/Her
If anyone's going to build a battlecruiser Excelsior it's the Indorians. An Indorian War Excelsior design is the kind of thing that keeps the Obsidian Order up at night because Excelsiors are scary enough BEFORE some wiseass strips out some of the luxuries, the diplomatic fittings and the research labs and replaces them with more phasers, torpedoes and shield generators.
Agree with Simon. The original four races are locked into only building Starfleet designs - there would have to be a lot of politics going on before they would go back to making their own designs.
@pheonix89 The Excelsior-A does fit in some weapons and shields - while also increasing the sensors and increasing the diplomacy space. How? No idea, but they did it.
@pheonix89 The Excelsior-A does fit in some weapons and shields - while also increasing the sensors and increasing the diplomacy space. How? No idea, but they did it.
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There has been a lot of war going on in the quadrant lately. And we've been heaily relying on the member fleets to pick up the slack in emergency situations, something which as far as i can tell was really uncommon the last century or so.
Starfleet has diplomacy and anomaly response pretty well covered, so rebuilding their own capital ships - if they think they need capital ships anyways - as beatsticks could appeal to the older member fleets. After all, they stick to well explored space most of the time and don't get into dangerous situations - unless Starfleet calls them in to fight the Cardassians in the Gabriel Expanse or go kick the Arcadian Empire over.
Before, Starfleet handled everything, so the member world fleets decayed. Now Starfleet handles everything except heavy combat against outside threats, so it makes sense to specialise the member fleets for such scenarios.
And Earth is the most industrialised world in the Federation. They probably have the economy to support two or three battleships on top of the rest of their fleet if they wanted to. More than enough to do their part alongside the Amarki and the other new members with big fleets.
I'm not saying this is happening, but i could see it happening. It would be logical.
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pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They did it with a mix of newer tech, lessons learned, and copying the parts of Explorer Corps customizations that aren't stupidly peaky.
I'm talking about the Indorians doing a war variant to the Excelsior-A. The resulting ship would beat on anything short of various superbattleships and the best EC Excelsiors.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
Oh boy snakepit time...
Are you going to bundle a GBZ sector commander vote there as well, or in a separate post?
As for options, I'm hoping we get some of the options that we had available in this Arcadian crisis:
1) Repair yards and expansions
2) Non-EC recruitment campaigns
3) Spending pp and resources to help rush builds and repairs on ships and stations (outposts, starbases, etc.)
I also would've suggested mines, but you then indicated that they're low endurance defenses.
Also:
4) Non-Science Academy expansions (though I can understand if this requires replacing Certunn Guk)
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@Options - another auxilary berth. We are already in the negatives, the fleet keeps expanding, affiliates are likely to become members, and a Cardassian war is on the horizon. And the freshly build berth is busy with hospital ships.
I'm sure it won't be taken by the players, but, from an in-character view of ressort demands, wouldn't it be logical?
I'm sure it won't be taken by the players, but, from an in-character view of ressort demands, wouldn't it be logical?
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Aux berths. Give us Aux Berths.
God if we get an aux berth option I'm taking adding an Aux wing to UP so hard.
Would the Heavy Industry Park buff Aux berths and member berths in that system?
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
The thing with auxiliary berths is that we don't know if they're structurally any different than normal berths, and the "auxiliary" part is just a label for its intended usage. IIRC, we could use the berths at the Lasieth auxilairy shipyard for military builds in a war. That said, I can see it being more politically appealing (read: pp discount) to expand that shipyard rather than a regular one.
- Location
- Australia
I was actually referring to the Anoxa post coming up - but I think that the last thing we all want after recent posts is yet another complicated planning turn that honestly don't really make a lot of sense from a Starfleet Commander's point of view.
So instead I'll make this more of a "congratulations" type post, and list the modifiers that you're getting and the choices and events that led to them. Just something to give you a feel of cause and effect
So instead I'll make this more of a "congratulations" type post, and list the modifiers that you're getting and the choices and events that led to them. Just something to give you a feel of cause and effect
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We need more aux ships. Aux berths let us largely automate that. We've also never even TRIED to build auxillaries in regular berths, so can we stop letting the problem grow already?
At some point late in the game I want to be able to design a very high modularity escort-the warp drive, the bridge and that's basically IT in terms of commonality, more module than ship. But to be honest, a 600k escort with a 450k module would do that job very well anyways, and we probably can make *that* by the mid 2320s if we focus on it. If modules are ready for primetime by then of course.
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
I was actually referring to the Anoxa post coming up - but I think that the last thing we all want after recent posts is yet another complicated planning turn that honestly don't really make a lot of sense from a Starfleet Commander's point of view.
So instead I'll make this more of a "congratulations" type post, and list the modifiers that you're getting and the choices and events that led to them. Just something to give you a feel of cause and effect
Sounds like a finale of sorts. That's telling...
I do hope we get at least something from the doctrine research we've done, however minuscule - feels such a waste otherwise.
I don't disagree we need more auxiliary ships. Just not sure if a specific snakepit option for auxiliary berths is the way to do that, instead of just normal yard expansions and the option to designate which berths should be dedicated to auxiliary builds. Or an auxiliary quota system like I suggested before, where we just have to fit in auxiliary builds to meet various quotas.
This crisis's usage of heavy industry teams does indicate to me that this Heavy Industry Park could have more secondary effects/abilities than just the listed 1 qtr build time reduction. It could potentially be used to speed up repairs at the local shipyard too. And in a crisis, it could be an automatically mobilized heavy industry asset that's defaulted that 1 qtr build time reduction but can be switched over to something else. 125pp is still awfully steep though.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Was the price dependent on which faction is most influential?
Jenny
anonymous user
- Location
- maryland
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- She/Her
Anne Usha sighs softly in her sleep, dreaming of a Starfleet that completely embraces modularity. Every ship role would have its own dedicated module, and every frigate could be converted on the fly, with no more than a few months needed. But the bigger ships could use modular design, too - just strap on more modules. It could work. Even for Enterprise...
lbmaian
a thirsty squirrel
- Location
- USA
So instead I'll make this more of a "congratulations" type post, and list the modifiers that you're getting and the choices and events that led to them. Just something to give you a feel of cause and effect
A bit more feedback:
Another thing that contributed to that general feeling of lack of "cause and effect" you mention here is that one of the critical new mechanisms behind the war was IMO underutilized: war support.
The primary changes to war support were from asset mobilization and internal diplo teams. The actual events of the war didn't change the war support as much as I thought it would. And many things I thought would change war support, like rushing member fleet asset building, didn't.
I would honestly prefer it if war support was more ... volatile and reactive to ongoing events. Losses are more devastating to morale, victories are celebrated more. Tiny things like aforementioned member fleet asset building rushes should have at least some minuscule impact on war support. And so forth.
Likely. But the faction that would probably be most amenable to it is already in power: the development faction. The Heavy Industrial Park snakepit option appeared in 2312, right after the elections that brought the developmentalists (if that's the correct noun) into power, and the pp price has always been 125pp. The 2315 elections isn't going to change this picture - just Rigel councilor elections and they're going to remain mercantalist.
I'll note that soon our 3mt berths will be 3.3mt berths from a tech so even if we slip in a few more kilotons it's fine. That said the Ambassador is going to be under 3mt, but it's built on a 3.1mt frame, so counting the nacelles of 0.125mt we could see an Ambassador refit max out at 3.225mt.
I would vote against it. Other stuff I think is more important and am not willing to sacrifice. But hopefully we won't even get the option, and I won't have to spend a lot of time arguing against it.
And then we won't have another auxiliary yard. And nothing bad will happen.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Why? For what purpose?
For the sake of the thing itself. Sometimes, you have to build the freak-ship to see what it can do. You need to deck over a perfectly good cruiser, or put ten main-battery guns on a battleship, but most of the time if you want to dick around with new tech, you do it on a little ship, a cheap one that you can afford to keep around as an ugly duckling if it turns out wrong. We can test it to see if we can build a fleet of generalist frigates that can transform into couriers or scouts or combat escorts, and compare them to the more traditional single purpose designs. Some things you can't work out in any simulator. And even if it's a failure, we can keep it around for testing future technology, because hey, it's fully modular, swapping out parts is what it's made for.
- Location
- Patriarchova
Citizens of the Federation, your tax money at work.
