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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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The flip side is, I feel like the Risans are prime material for "is that a phaser in your pocket or are you happy to see me" jokes.
EDIT:
Leila Hann said:
I'm not seeing the phaser.
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Well, more broadly it looks gun-like, to my eye. I just used "phaser" since we don't have projectile weapons for most polities any more.
It most closely resembles a gestalt of a Halo 1 Assault Rifle and most short-barreled pump shotguns. *shrugs*

I think some of it is the way the back end just kind of curves down, combined with the areas of contrast, and how they contrast.

EDIT 2: Also, the raised portions at the back and the front kind of look like iron sights. Especially the front. And the proportions of the lightest segment combined with the darker segments give a general gun-ish vibe to me. *Insert joke about the other kind of vibes Risans like to give here.*
 
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Leila Hann said:
Not really. Those facilities are doing specific things that most powers simply don't have the technology to do.
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Which hasn't really mattered much to our operations. The various science stations have accomplished little or nothing besides being targets. The main danger, again, has come from the mines rather than what they guard.
 
KnightDisciple said:
The flip side is, I feel like the Risans are prime material for "is that a phaser in your pocket or are you happy to see me" jokes.
EDIT:

Well, more broadly it looks gun-like, to my eye. I just used "phaser" since we don't have projectile weapons for most polities any more.
It most closely resembles a gestalt of a Halo 1 Assault Rifle and most short-barreled pump shotguns. *shrugs*

I think some of it is the way the back end just kind of curves down, combined with the areas of contrast, and how they contrast.

EDIT 2: Also, the raised portions at the back and the front kind of look like iron sights. Especially the front. And the proportions of the lightest segment combined with the darker segments give a general gun-ish vibe to me. *Insert joke about the other kind of vibes Risans like to give here.*
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Hmm.

I started with a sleek boat shape, almost canoe like. The back section was inspired by a mention in one of Akuz's omakes about Risan warp nacelle design. The raised bits are supposed to be mounting for thrusters to get around the warp engines (in back) and the observation dome from my "The Lucky Ones" omake (in front). Then, well, I just thought the sides needed more detailing.

"Gun" is literally the last impression I want this ship to give. Do I need to start over?
 
Leila Hann said:
Hmm.

I started with a sleek boat shape, almost canoe like. The back section was inspired by a mention in one of Akuz's omakes about Risan warp nacelle design. The raised bits are supposed to be mounting for thrusters to get around the warp engines (in back) and the observation dome from my "The Lucky Ones" omake (in front). Then, well, I just thought the sides needed more detailing.

"Gun" is literally the last impression I want this ship to give. Do I need to start over?
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Hm. Not necessarily 100% over....I can see what you're saying about it...

Hm. What about kind of framing the darker blue segments in between lighter blue sections? Kind of a mid-ships observation deck or whatnot?

It sorta reminds me of the front end of the Excelsior engineering hull now that I look at it more.
 
I figure since the mines are relatively stationary they can be much bigger payloads than photorps. How they remain stealthier is another question entirely.

Also RE Licori mine designs, I was going to have one of the characters in Near Death speculate the Orion Syndicate sold them the design. If we want them to be super-dicks still
 
I've just assumed this is what mines from a technological peer look like. the syndrixans are way behind us, and while that doesn't really seem to show that much in their ship design, I had assumed it was showing in their mines, so this is what mines from a technological peer look like.
 
FeepingCreature said:
That is totally unfair! The Licori get to do it, why not us! :V

Is there a research branch for creating fake ship signatures/decoys for anti-mine use? Can we use a wide-pattern tractor beam to "sweep" space? What about the brute force solution- a ship that has No Guns, No Science, No Crew, Shields Only (... Final Destination)?
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I've been agitating for some kind of counter-mine technology branch for a while, honestly.

random_npc said:
and the mad science is not the what's kicking our ass. it's the fact that mines can mission kill cap ships in one hit, and have no actual counter. any power can do about as much if they can make more then 2 hard points in a system we would need to attack.
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Frankly, this. The mad science is a gimmick compared to the sheer ridiculous devastation the minefields have wrought against our frigate screen.

Shard said:
Why can't ships shoot at mines to blow them up, or send probe ahead of them to take hits for them?

Or unmanned shuttles.
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MTB said:
There a no dice for that.
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I think our ships DO have some ability to sweep and detect mines, which is why it's even possible for our high-science ships to avoid them, and why high-science Federation fleet takes less mine damage than a Ked Paddah fleet. The problem seems to be that the countermine doctrine is infantile compared to the scope of the threat.

MTB said:
For whatever reason, ST ships can tank a photon torpedo. But not a mine ...
The Licori must have some impressive means to produce antimatter.
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Photon torpedo warheads aren't actually that big in terms of physical size and mass of payload. Most of their mass is in the engines and guidance systems, I suspect, just like any real missile. A stationary or near-stationary mine has much less demanding needs.

random_npc said:
yes, and they were nowhere near this deadly. when we kicked the syndrixans face in we took our entire fleet through a minefield without damage, rather than the explorer crippling mines we seem to be facing now.
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Maryam Ajam:

"Please do not tell me you forgot that explorer-crippling mines were a thing. It's only been six years. SIX YEARS!"

[stares into space, horrified]
 
Simon_Jester said:
Maryam Ajam:

"Please do not tell me you forgot that explorer-crippling mines were a thing. It's only been six years. SIX YEARS!"

[stares into space, horrified]
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mechanics answer: that was a botched event rather than actual war scenario.

in universe answer: she was trying to sneak up on the outpost and had her shields on low emission mode, and due to that the mine was also a lot closer than normal before detonating. far from actual combat conditions.
 
@OneirosTheWriter, do (or can) we specify which forces attack which stations?

If our forces are being split up, I want to ensure that its the Starfleet ships that are taking the vanguard with respect to mines, since the Ked Paddah have been fail at it so far.

I also want to keep at least a single frigate in Ixaria Prime orbit to prevent mine-layers (as the update warns about) and guard the shipyard.
 
I'll say this- our best option for minesweeping is probably Excelsior at this point. She's undamaged; Sarek has taken sensor damage and Torbriel nearly ruptured herself BOOM HEADSHOTTING that Licori frigate, then hurling that Licori outpost out of the universe.

[I don't care what people SAY happened, this is my version of what happened.]

random_npc said:
mechanics answer: that was a botched event rather than actual war scenario.

in universe answer: she was trying to sneak up on the outpost and had her shields on low emission mode, and due to that the mine was also a lot closer than normal before detonating. far from actual combat conditions.
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That's not a reason to say "in 2310 we didn't know explorer-crippling mines were a thing." It's an excuse.

That mine blast was a metaphorical warning shot; it signaled to us that mines were a thing in this version of Star Trek, a thing common enough that even the Syndicate could get ahold of them to protect random installations, and powerful enough to cripple an Excelsior. You can rationalize it if you want, but we knew mines were a threat back then.
 
my point is that mines seem to have jumped up in deadliness by an order of magnitude in combat with little to no warning from player perspective. from in universe this level of deadliness is unsurprising , which raises questions about why the federation doesn't use them and why literally no one has minesweeper vessels.
 
The Federation does use mines, as demonstrated by the fact that our engineering teams have the option to lay minefields when we want them to. There are good in-story reasons why the Federation doesn't have minefields around its installations in peacetime, of course... but we've never encountered this kind of minefield against an enemy who was operating on a peacetime footing. Only against the Sydraxians and Licori, both of whom had plenty of time to prepare for war.

As to the lack of minesweepers, that's a valid question and I anticipate Oneiros thinking of an answer, if only because otherwise the Klingons are boned given their reliance on swarm tactics.
 
Simon_Jester said:
The Federation does use mines, as demonstrated by the fact that our engineering teams have the option to lay minefields when we want them to. There are good in-story reasons why the Federation doesn't have minefields around its installations in peacetime, of course... but we've never encountered this kind of minefield against an enemy who was operating on a peacetime footing. Only against the Sydraxians and Licori, both of whom had plenty of time to prepare for war.

As to the lack of minesweepers, that's a valid question and I anticipate Oneiros thinking of an answer, if only because otherwise the Klingons are boned given their reliance on swarm tactics.
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Their birds of prey are minesweepers. One off minesweepers but minesweepers all the same.
 
The Arcadian empire is probably the first time the Federation has faced a heavy mine user and been the aggressor. Previous wars with the Klingons and Romulons were mainly fought in non-core systems, so there were only a few cases of mine fields being encountered. Even now, the Federation doctrine is to catch invaders outside of the populated systems - where there will be no mines.

The Syndraxians did have a mine field or two around their colony, but I am currently assuming it was rated as light and sparse, not the heavy and dense that the Arcadians will set up given sufficient time.
 
In the entire length of this quest, this is the first time you have charged into the major colony worlds of a hostile power in a state of war. You really wouldn't have encountered things like this before.

Simon_Jester said:
The Federation does use mines, as demonstrated by the fact that our engineering teams have the option to lay minefields when we want them to. There are good in-story reasons why the Federation doesn't have minefields around its installations in peacetime, of course... but we've never encountered this kind of minefield against an enemy who was operating on a peacetime footing. Only against the Sydraxians and Licori, both of whom had plenty of time to prepare for war.

As to the lack of minesweepers, that's a valid question and I anticipate Oneiros thinking of an answer, if only because otherwise the Klingons are boned given their reliance on swarm tactics.
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The Klingons are Decisive Battle rather than Base Strike. Crush their fleets in open space rather than aim to strike at their facilities and infrastructure.

No one ever got into Sto'vo'kor tiptoeing away from decisive battle!

In any event, mines are a tool for a smaller force to try to keep an even stance with more powerful forces - it is inherently a passive step, not a priority for forces looking to go on the offensive and seize initiative.
 
yeah, but they are good enough that unless they have so far unseen downsides, I would call large minefields a dominant defensive strategy. There is no counter , and they are obscenely effective, so why would anyone on a defensive war ever do anything but strive to draw the other guy into his minefields?
 
Because the attacker will detect that there is a mine field and bring a big enough fleet that they can get through the field and still trash whatever is on the other side (just like we are doing), while your engineering teams that built the mine field didn't build something else that might have been more useful after the orbital infrastructure is blown up.

Stronger mines, or something else - really depends on context, tempo, what the something else is etc. Mines will sometimes be the right answer, but not always.
 
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