- Location
- Australia
An anti-matter/Bundaberg Rum mixture.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Licori's secret weapon! Even rum can be made devastating in the hands of a mentat.
My folks live in Bundaberg - the rum isn't that potent.
- Location
- USA
Should we set up a minefield with our second engineering team
@OneirosTheWriter the Rru'adorr should have had time to make its way to the Licori border zone by now. Can we get it added to the order of battle?
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Have you mixed it with antimatter?
- Location
- somewhere
You seem to be simultaneously arguing that the situation has changed so plans need to be changed and that Eaton would stick to the old plan. Does that mean you believe her to be incompetent? Or do you believe using both TF1 and TF2 as blocking forces is strictly necessary for success? That would suggest your voting for sending TF2 away is intentionally sabotaging the attack (or do you expect them to be back intact before it starts)?
And how would combining several task forces for the attack not be massing heavy ships, considering that each of the task forces contains some?
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- Location
- Australia
I'll put its assignment vote in the opening post for next month.
- Location
- USA
I should have all the ships under repair listed on the tab after starfleet and next quarter we get several ships back.
Our second engineering team I figure we either setup an outpost if we have a system that needs one or setup defenses in the system we just took.
@OneirosTheWriter How easy is it to move an outpost if we wanted to set one up in the system we just took or Gammon once we take that since we would want them moved after the war
Our second engineering team I figure we either setup an outpost if we have a system that needs one or setup defenses in the system we just took.
@OneirosTheWriter How easy is it to move an outpost if we wanted to set one up in the system we just took or Gammon once we take that since we would want them moved after the war
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
Speaking of which, do we have dedicated minesweeper platforms? a shuttle carrier with drone shuttles (maybe obsolete ones at that) could give us some ablative armor to our ships, perhaps
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Kappa Tau> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
Speaking of which, do we have dedicated minesweeper platforms? a shuttle carrier with drone shuttles (maybe obsolete ones at that) could give us some ablative armor to our ships, perhaps
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
*insert smug turtle pic*
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at New Seoul (3 Months - apprx)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
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Okay, here is my logic. I'd like to get the Yagad-Tich back before going after Gammon. Therefore I'm *not* voting to take Gammon immediately. My plan is to assign the Heavy Industry team to brute force repair fo the Yaga-Tich. This will allow it to be repaired in 6/4 = 1.5 months... meaning that if I set the goal as "take in 2 months" it'll be back in time. Everything flows from that.
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
Ka'Sharren in TF2 is down two ships, the Hood and the Winterwind. It makes more sense to send TF1 to support, which is down no ships.
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
As above.
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
Yeah, let's leave them alone in preparation for the peace.
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
I don't believe we're ready to go after Morshadd, and Gesseria was another faction noted as being potentially able to help with the peace. Plus we've been developing an anti-convoy doctrine.
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
They may need the resources.
[][UNASSIGN] Federation Emergency Committee
Box left unchecked for now... but it will be time to do this very soon. We can't afford to be spending 20 war support every turn.
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
EDIT: Changed this to "set minefield" since it only takes 1 month.
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
Let's get an Outpost built around our forward operating base.
EDIT: Switching my Heavy Industry votes around to match what others have been doing.
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
Let's get our mega-tortoise back in action! Starfleet can swallow the repair costs.
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
Let's get the Hood back in action.
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
Ka'Sharren in TF2 is down two ships, the Hood and the Winterwind. It makes more sense to send TF1 to support, which is down no ships.
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
As above.
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
Yeah, let's leave them alone in preparation for the peace.
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
I don't believe we're ready to go after Morshadd, and Gesseria was another faction noted as being potentially able to help with the peace. Plus we've been developing an anti-convoy doctrine.
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
They may need the resources.
[][UNASSIGN] Federation Emergency Committee
Box left unchecked for now... but it will be time to do this very soon. We can't afford to be spending 20 war support every turn.
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
EDIT: Changed this to "set minefield" since it only takes 1 month.
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
Let's get an Outpost built around our forward operating base.
EDIT: Switching my Heavy Industry votes around to match what others have been doing.
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
Let's get our mega-tortoise back in action! Starfleet can swallow the repair costs.
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
Let's get the Hood back in action.
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Man, we keep running into reinforced outposts. Ours only get H9 L9.
Combat system:
To be honest, @OneirosTheWriter, I think you've removed most of the point of having frigates screens with this new system. It seems the short length of the skirmish phase would be very likely to result in no casualties, and gives a perverse incentive to build sturdy frigates over other components. That the frigates don't participate in the battle after skirmish in our doctrine becomes somewhat strange. I presume they must participate in certain other races' doctrine, given fleet comps like the Apiata and Klingons. But for us, I don't really see a point to competing for advantage if those resources can go to another heavy ship, especially since that means enemy skirmishers are wasted resources. It would also necessitate rewriting all of the frigate-focused battle maneuvers and combinations in offensive doctrine.
There's not really any feedback on what it means to have an advantage, but even so, that skirmish ships don't bother doing anything to heavy ships seems a level of abstraction too far. No torpedo charge or ships breaking through a flank or anything?
In addition, reducing the time a ship spends in battle, plus the damage buff, has greatly reduced the effect of shield regen.
If we build the Kappa Tau outposts I would not mind protecting it with a minefield. Otherwise I don't see the point yet.
We haven't had the opportunity to juggle task forces in any situation. It's not going to happen now just because you have some wishful thinking about how Eaton ought to commit forces.
You intend to order the impossible, and if Eaton tries to implement that she will either fail to meet the deadline or fail in the attack, even despite best efforts. We could have failed the last attack against one single outpost. 1.5x the forces aren't going to cut it for a major colony. I expect to lose half the fleet even if/when TF3 is fully intact.
My belief is that all forces used need to be adequate for their role. A blocking force needs to have the firepower to make a fleet of the expected size think twice, which we have in any one of our task forces. And an attack force needs to have the heavy components that can take on the enemy heavy components and win handily. We don't have such an attack force until repairs are complete.
Combat system:
To be honest, @OneirosTheWriter, I think you've removed most of the point of having frigates screens with this new system. It seems the short length of the skirmish phase would be very likely to result in no casualties, and gives a perverse incentive to build sturdy frigates over other components. That the frigates don't participate in the battle after skirmish in our doctrine becomes somewhat strange. I presume they must participate in certain other races' doctrine, given fleet comps like the Apiata and Klingons. But for us, I don't really see a point to competing for advantage if those resources can go to another heavy ship, especially since that means enemy skirmishers are wasted resources. It would also necessitate rewriting all of the frigate-focused battle maneuvers and combinations in offensive doctrine.
There's not really any feedback on what it means to have an advantage, but even so, that skirmish ships don't bother doing anything to heavy ships seems a level of abstraction too far. No torpedo charge or ships breaking through a flank or anything?
In addition, reducing the time a ship spends in battle, plus the damage buff, has greatly reduced the effect of shield regen.
If we build the Kappa Tau outposts I would not mind protecting it with a minefield. Otherwise I don't see the point yet.
We haven't had the opportunity to juggle task forces in any situation. It's not going to happen now just because you have some wishful thinking about how Eaton ought to commit forces.
You intend to order the impossible, and if Eaton tries to implement that she will either fail to meet the deadline or fail in the attack, even despite best efforts. We could have failed the last attack against one single outpost. 1.5x the forces aren't going to cut it for a major colony. I expect to lose half the fleet even if/when TF3 is fully intact.
My belief is that all forces used need to be adequate for their role. A blocking force needs to have the firepower to make a fleet of the expected size think twice, which we have in any one of our task forces. And an attack force needs to have the heavy components that can take on the enemy heavy components and win handily. We don't have such an attack force until repairs are complete.
- Location
- somewhere
You are the one who brought up specifics, I'm perfectly happy to let Eaton decide the details, that's her job. It's also her job to tell us if she believes such an attack to be impossible. Since the option is being offered up in the first place she clearly doesn't believe it to be impossible. If she were to just go ahead with the old plan out of inertia despite knowing better like you suggest she would very much deserve to be stripped of her rank.
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- Location
- Terror Australis
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
This is a preliminary vote and some comments, I'll probably say more and vote on more things when I've had more time to think.
If Task Force 3.1's "withdrawal" was prompted almost entirely by the mines, then I could see it (say, if three frigates hit mines on the way in). However, in that case the minefields are really really lethal. In and of itself that's okay, but I have to ask... to roughly what extent to we get to have minefields in wartime? Does it always take deliberate team deployment? Might we not have facilities that are equipped to lay mines on their own initiative if they anticipate war in the near future?
Things could get unbalanced, if that's the case. At that point maybe we should have actual anti-mine techs the way that the game started with us having anti-cloak techs in anticipation of having to worry about Romulans and Klingons.
[Also, Q may be stalking Thuir, and if so then I'd be interested to see interaction between Q and a Ked Paddah]
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
I definitely agree with the repair priorities, though.
Enterprise:
[staggers away from front lines carrying Connie!Hood, making protective noises]
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
Hm... I think that may be a bit too much volatility in the combat engine. The defenses here were pretty light- a 2/1/2 frigate plus the 6/12/12 outpost, plus of course the mines. In the opposing pan of the balance, we have a 2/1/2, a 3/1/2, a 3/2/3, and a 3/3/3 frigate/"cruiser," two 4/5/5 cruisers, and the dreaded 6/8/9 HERO TURTLE that's basically an outpost with rocket engines glued to its butt. Adding up the stats just to get a sense for the weight of metal involved, we have 25/25/29 being thrown against 8/13/14. Roughly a 3:1 advantage in raw firepower and a 2:1 advantage in durability, even if much of the durability is scattered among puny spaceships.QM/N: I ran that battle a number or times while I was debugging the Tech-Ship Doctrine class, believe me, that could have gone a lot worse
If Task Force 3.1's "withdrawal" was prompted almost entirely by the mines, then I could see it (say, if three frigates hit mines on the way in). However, in that case the minefields are really really lethal. In and of itself that's okay, but I have to ask... to roughly what extent to we get to have minefields in wartime? Does it always take deliberate team deployment? Might we not have facilities that are equipped to lay mines on their own initiative if they anticipate war in the near future?
Things could get unbalanced, if that's the case. At that point maybe we should have actual anti-mine techs the way that the game started with us having anti-cloak techs in anticipation of having to worry about Romulans and Klingons.
I agree. Also, Michel Thuir is probably one of the few fighting officers we have who can plausibly connect to the Ked Paddah, a species I suspect are inclined to not send the away teams down to the surface. They can share "stupid Gaeni" anecdotes!Briefvoice said:
[Also, Q may be stalking Thuir, and if so then I'd be interested to see interaction between Q and a Ked Paddah]
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
I'm very comfortable giving Eaton 2-3 months. I wouldn't actually be opposed to giving her 5-6 months, if only because I'm curious what she'll do with it.Oneiros said:
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
Hm... still thinking about this one.
And this one.
I definitely agree with the repair priorities, though.
Enterprise:
[staggers away from front lines carrying Connie!Hood, making protective noises]
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
- Location
- Australia
Torpedo charge and flanking tactics are something I plan to implement.
However, the basic thing that the skirmish screens do is modify the weight factor attached to each ship. Do you see in the detailed ship logs during the skirmish phase it shows a Reaction Test? The cumulative difference of those tests is applied to the fleet weighting of the victorious side, so they are able to fire more.
It is absolutely possible to win the skirmish phase sufficiently to overcome significant disadvantages in the main battle.
I'm actually considering buffing that back up again for that very reason.
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- Location
- the Moon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
[X][IND2] Rush Starship Construction for <Mega-Tortoise> (Variable, ship will proceed at 2x rate)
@OneirosTheWriter you don't give a duration for the "setting a minefield" task.
Place defensive minefields in <Target> (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
Is that a 3 month deal? More? Less?
Place defensive minefields in <Target> (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
Is that a 3 month deal? More? Less?
- Location
- Australia
- Location
- Infraspace
[X][IXIRA] Order Task Force 1 to join the attack
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
(Edit: changed [IND] votes around to align with majority)
[X][GAMMON] Two Months
[X][CALAMAR] Cut off Calamar
[X][TARGET] Hunt all trade ships
[X][TURTLE] Suggest raising their mobilisation level
[X][ENG] Place defensive minefields in Kappa Tau (Sets minefield of Low Density, Low Waves, High Strength, Medium Stealth)
[X][ENG2] Commence outpost build at Kappa Tau (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Brute force repairs for USS Hood (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase)
[X][IND2] Brute force repairs (1.5x penalty to cost, 4x speed increase) Yagad-Tich
(Edit: changed [IND] votes around to align with majority)
I wonder where this might be located. I'd have thought it'd be too small for one. Perhaps it's somewhere deep in the engineering hull: the neck's too small for it to be there like in a Galaxy.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It's still a million-ton ship, and having an auxiliary control facility isn't that hard. Bridges don't actually take up very much space if they don't come with a whole bunch of ancillary support facilities that wouldn't be strictly required during a battle. But yeah, I figure the norm is for battle bridge to be buried in the engineering hull; part of the point is that its placement is designed to be a protected secondary control facility.
Alternatively, what we call "battle bridge" could be Starfleet's idea of flag accomodations during battle.
This sounds a lot like saying that every option we have for "issue orders to our field commanders" is automatically a smart option, because the option to issue them dumb orders wouldn't be made available.
That sounds, uh... overly optimistic. I'm pretty sure Oneiros would let us give stupid orders to Eaton, and if they weren't absolutely pants-on-fire crazy, Eaton would try to carry them out. Because Eaton's a by-the-book person. But she's also as brave as a barrel full of bears, and she's the kind of person who's gone into difficult, dangerous, all-in situations many times before. She's very likely to try to implement a risky plan that is the only way to carry out an unwise order, rather than resist that order.
We have to assume that our field commanders will actually try to follow our orders, but correspondingly we can't assume that every order we give is one that our own tacticians would logically think probably has good consequences associated with it.
I think at the very least we should take time to make sure we've neutralized that moon cannon. An immediate attack comes with a lot of risks along those lines. Especially without knowing Eaton's battle plan and to what extent she plans to concentrate her forces.
The really frightening thing is what happens when the rum goes down the gullet of the mentat instead.The Licori's secret weapon! Even rum can be made devastating in the hands of a mentat.
Sounds like the sort of thing we'd get an option to work on after developing some counter-mine doctrines. Right now we don't actually have minesweeping doctrine as such, our ships just sort of... fly right through the minefield and hope they don't get hurt. While they're no doubt zapping any mines they actually see just out of self-preservation and basic common sense, that's not the same as deliberately sweeping the minefield.
I think the problem is that in the combat log as written that's entirely invisible, so it looks like the frigates are achieving nothing tangible.
Plus, as noted, it is... really rough, potentially, having situations where your frigates fight their frigates and your heavies fight their heavies, but your frigates don't fight their heavies and vice versa. Viewed in the abstract, this means that an opponent whose ships are "balanced" between lights and heavies has effectively divided their strength in the face of the enemy, compared to someone who focuses on either lights or heavies.
And you can try to compensate for this with various special detailed mechanics, but it's not going to be easy to compensate for.
You may have already done this, I genuinely don't know, but what I'd do is throw together some fleets made up of roughly equal-sized resource investments (i.e. 1000/800 resources and 30/30/30 crew or whatever, I pulled those numbers out of a hat). See if "mixed lights/heavies" fleets actually win against "all lights" and "all heavies" fleets, or at least hold their own. If not, the combat engine as written cripples combined arms tactics, and with it cripples a lot of nations' fleet design paradigms, especially ours, but to an extent also the Romulans.
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!!!! Oh hell yeah, I'm changing my vote! That's a cheap and fast way to add security to our remote sites.