To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

chriswriter90 · Apr 11, 2017

Iron Wolf said:
A critical problem with this method is that it was like, "we're going to burn everyone -- everyone -- in a section even mildly infected with the biophage because it was so virulent and a fate worse than death. You wanna start burning entire decks to get like 50 dudes, that's your prerogative. I'm just gonna, I dunno, close some blast doors or something.

Aeqnai already brought that up.

Simon_Jester · Apr 11, 2017

MTB said:
I mean, how many ways are there to lay minefields? Especially when the mines may be non-standard? (in the sense that we can expect more variation from the Licori than the Cardassians I think)

Well, good minesweeping practices aren't entirely dependent on the enemy always laying their minefields the same way...

Leslie:

"Oh, please, sweep the mines exactly the same way you did last time. Ignore that ticking sound from below your feet. Don't worry, I laid out allll the mines exactly the same as before..." [evil grin]

Briefvoice said:
True, but we can just use the "increase refit/construction speed" option and still get the Courageous faster. We only have two more quarters to go on that, so the Engineering te4am can get the Courageous done in a single quarter.

I'm inclined to agree- my basic point is just that because we're refitting Courageous and not just repairing her, I don't think we'll get to take the quadruple speed option. And have to settle for double speed.

We seem to be in agreement on this.

chriswriter90 said:
I wouldn't say they're useless. Highly situational surely, but not useless.

...What I mean is, I think we didn't actually GET those benefits on an ongoing basis.

Since Oneiros does all the die rolls 'behind the screen' it's impossible to be sure, but we've never gotten confirmation of any Biophage-developed tech benefiting us elsewhere as far as I can remember. Even in fairly similar situations (i.e. using Biophage-era convoy doctrines for other areas that need convoying, or coping with the shuttle ramming attacks used by the Syndicate).

Also, the EPS venting and "big red button" modifications were specifically removed after Kadesh and never used again, and it wasn't just because they were overkill. It's because they were rush modifications, very destructive to the ship, and frighteningly likely to be accidentally triggered during an emergency. You don't want your ship randomly exploding because the captain put his coffee cup down in the wrong place, or five thousand tons of pure trans-nuclear flame turning everyone in Engineering into a charred skeleton because someone overtightened a bolt.

Iron Wolf · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
You don't want your ship randomly exploding because the captain put his coffee cup down in the wrong place, or five thousand tons of pure trans-nuclear flame turning everyone in Engineering into a charred skeleton because someone overtightened a bolt.

...well, in Starfleet, anyways.

In some Gaen circles they call that "data".

AKuz · Apr 11, 2017

Yey Zhang!

Clap clap clap.

I owe her an omake sometime soon.

I suspect that she made such a good impression on the Entsm'n because she can be a thoughtful, patient, and deliberate person herself.

pbluekan · Apr 11, 2017

[X][UNASSIGN] Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3
[X][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)
[X][AMB] Convey a write-in request to <Ked Paddah> to begin coordinating war effort with Federation
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Onos IV> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Rush Starship Construction for <Courageous>
[X][DOC] Begin developing developing countermeasures for fixed defences (improve minefield rolls) (6 months)

This the four wall speaking. Don't do it Q. Whatever it is. Please? You are beautiful and wonderful, and we don't need to see the Borg our our mirror universe counterparts to understand humility.

al103 · Apr 11, 2017

Night said:
Can't be, they haven't made terrible probe decisions! Maybe the gas-giant dwellers from Stellaris.

They haven't met Ferengi yet to buy said probes. They were not of Slylandro make.

Simon_Jester · Apr 11, 2017

That whole mess with the Slylandro would have made a pretty good Star Trek episode.

Glassware said:
Okay Q your racism is just getting annoying ok

Humans do not run the Federation we're doing this because a cat wanted to. Geeze.

I think the best argument for it actually being the same Q as the one who hassled Picard (albeit in a different guise) is the sort of... fixation on humanity.

JesseJ · Apr 11, 2017

[X][UNASSIGN] Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3
[X][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)
[X][AMB] Convey a write-in request to <Ked Paddah> to begin coordinating war effort with Federation
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Onos IV> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Rush Starship Construction for <Courageous>
[X][DOC] Begin developing developing countermeasures for fixed defences (improve minefield rolls) (6 months)

Iron Wolf · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
That whole mess with the Slylandro would have made a pretty good Star Trek episode.

I think it would have been perfect for TNG because of the :facepalm:

factor when they eventually get to the bottom of things.

aeqnai · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
Also, the EPS venting and "big red button" modifications were specifically removed after Kadesh and never used again, and it wasn't just because they were overkill. It's because they were rush modifications, very destructive to the ship, and frighteningly likely to be accidentally triggered during an emergency. You don't want your ship randomly exploding because the captain put his coffee cup down in the wrong place, or five thousand tons of pure trans-nuclear flame turning everyone in Engineering into a charred skeleton because someone overtightened a bolt.

Soooo this got me looking up a lot of things out of curiosity and did you know that for an average 3-year assignment a Galaxy-class carries enough antimatter in its storage pods to create a 104,700 gigaton explosion if it all detonated at once? Because I did not know that and now I do.

Theunderbolt · Apr 11, 2017

aeqnai said:
Soooo this got me looking up a lot of things out of curiosity and did you know that for an average 3-year assignment a Galaxy-class carries enough antimatter in its storage pods to create a 104,700 gigaton explosion if it all detonated at once? Because I did not know that and now I do.

TBF Galaxy-chan is a small city unto herself.

Chaos Blade · Apr 11, 2017

aeqnai said:
Hahahahahano. If for no other reason than SF Engineering has long since replaced the parts that were used for that, citing "Who the fuck would want vents designed to open up into living spaces when they're not fighting the Biophage!?!"

N O

You *do* remember how the original Constitution Class Enterprise met its end, right?

Simon_Jester · Apr 11, 2017

With a self-destruct- but a sane one that involved multiple safety interlocks, multiple officers ordering the self-destruct, and a timer. That's very different from "just hammer the big red button."

lbmaian · Apr 11, 2017

Briefvoice said:
Also, remember that the pp cost for extra starbases in the sector isn't stubbornness on the part of the Council that needs to be worked around. They have good reasons for not wanting to have to support too many Starbases in a single sector. Not when the Starbases take a lot of resources to support and are already capable of covering a huge area of space for C&C purposes.

What

Weren't you the one that pointed out that only starbases and outposts outside of homeworlds or major worlds required supply?

I mean, I'm also not gungho on having a war-mobilized engineering team work on a project that would last a whole year...unless we get another engineering team to rush it ala the Betazed starbase. If we keep getting more engineering teams, might be worth it.

edit: Found it:

Briefvoice said:
Interestingly, we only have to support Starbases and Outposts outside member world systems. Starbases are quite expensive to support, requiting 5s / 5b each.

Also checked the threadmarked logistics post and only 2 starbases were mentioned there, instead of the 10 11 total starbases we control.

Might just be something innate in the expense of resupplying far-off starbases, as opposed to the huge swarms of sub-warp ships that can easily supply starbases in local homeworld orbits. Anyway, we shouldn't read too much into the abstract expense of starbases by pp cost - there are plenty of other reasons more starbases in the same sector cost more. The simplest explanation is that other locations want their own starbases and don't want Starfleet to waste time fortifying an already fortified area.

Chaos Blade · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
With a self-destruct- but a sane one that involved multiple safety interlocks, multiple officers ordering the self-destruct, and a timer. That's very different from "just hammer the big red button."

I had understood "Big Red Button" as a title for the tech, not the tech itself

Night · Apr 11, 2017

I can see keeping a few of the EPS vents, actually. Not the whole system, but the ones immediately outside the primary engineering spaces and command areas, and inside the shuttle bay and the transporter room.

One of the primary lessons of the Biophage after all was that things like it actually exist. Even if we dealt with that one, that does not mean we will never encounter another. Keeping the means to incinerate it the moment it comes aboard, or failing that keep the ship's nerve centers clear long enough to initiate a self-destruct, would make sense.

The advantage to ship security would also be noticeable.

Simon_Jester · Apr 11, 2017

Chaos Blade said:
I had understood "Big Red Button" as a title for the tech, not the tech itself

Put this way. Starfleet ships already have self-destruct mechanisms like the one used in Star Trek III. The reason we needed to research a tech is because we needed a system that would self-destruct a ship faster and more reliably, with less 'risk' of interference in the process, in case of severe Biophage contamination. Like "just hammer the big red button."

The process may be a bit more nuanced than a literal big red button, but it can't be MUCH more nuanced, or we could have just stuck with the existing procedure.

aeqnai · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
"just hammer the big red button."

To quote the Evil Overlord List:

9. I will not include a self-destruct mechanism unless absolutely necessary. If it is necessary, it will not be a large red button labelled "Danger: Do Not Push". The big red button marked "Do Not Push" will instead trigger a spray of bullets on anyone stupid enough to disregard it. Similarly, the ON/OFF switch will not clearly be labelled as such.

Random Member · Apr 11, 2017

[X][UNASSIGN] Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3
[X][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)
[X][AMB] Convey a write-in request to <Ked Paddah> to begin coordinating war effort with Federation
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Onos IV> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Rush Starship Construction for <Courageous>
[X][DOC] Begin developing developing countermeasures for fixed defences (improve minefield rolls) (6 months)

UberJJK · Apr 11, 2017

[X][UNASSIGN] Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3
[X][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)
[X][AMB] Convey a write-in request to <Ked Paddah> to begin coordinating war effort with Federation
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Onos IV> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Rush Starship Construction for <Courageous>
[X][DOC] Begin developing developing countermeasures for fixed defences (improve minefield rolls) (6 months)

Gravitas Hunt · Apr 11, 2017

So, trialling a little something on the mesh (not final, though): panels, done better! I like these as they give an impression of the 'skeleton' of the ship.

Edit: I'm keeping it as NX until it's done. Still a prototype if it's not finished yet!
Edit 2: you may wish to click through to see it properly. The rescaling introduces a lot of inaccuracies at the edges.

Goat · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
With a self-destruct- but a sane one that involved multiple safety interlocks, multiple officers ordering the self-destruct, and a timer. That's very different from "just hammer the big red button."

The Red Button ... So big ... so shiny ... so right there ... must push ....

Chaos Blade · Apr 11, 2017

Simon_Jester said:
Put this way. Starfleet ships already have self-destruct mechanisms like the one used in Star Trek III. The reason we needed to research a tech is because we needed a system that would self-destruct a ship faster and more reliably, with less 'risk' of interference in the process, in case of severe Biophage contamination. Like "just hammer the big red button."

The process may be a bit more nuanced than a literal big red button, but it can't be MUCH more nuanced, or we could have just stuck with the existing procedure.

It is a problem, self destruct systems, the faster they are, the more a double edged blade they became as it would let a, say, psionically controlled command crew to self terminate the ship, or boarding parties managing to trigger the system via hacking, if they feel they won't take the ship

Aeondrac · Apr 11, 2017

[X][UNASSIGN] None
[X][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)
[X][AMB] Convey a write-in request to <Ked Paddah> to begin coordinating war effort with Federation
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Onos IV> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Rush Starship Construction for <Courageous>
[X][DOC] Begin developing developing countermeasures for fixed defences (improve minefield rolls) (6 months)

tryrar · Apr 11, 2017

[X][UNASSIGN] Federation Diplomatic Service Consular Team 3
[X][LADY] Lobby Council on your behalf (Chance of random war support gains)
[X][AMB] Convey a write-in request to <Ked Paddah> to begin coordinating war effort with Federation
[X][ENG] Commence outpost build at <Onos IV> (3 Months - apprx)
[X][IND] Rush Starship Construction for <Courageous>
[X][DOC] Begin developing developing countermeasures for fixed defences (improve minefield rolls) (6 months)

To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Been Better

Somethin's Fucky ...

Grumpy Russian Bear (SV edition)

Nerdy Homu

"Prepare for trouble..."

Procrastinating Writer

a thirsty squirrel

Procrastinating Writer

Widow Null

Nerdy Homu

Gardener of Human Happiness

On one, not scared

Procrastinating Writer