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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Simon_Jester said:
That's because Thuir did not send an away team to meet them.

"Thuir will not be beaming down an away team to meet you" is one step up on the Bad News scale from "T'Lorel is mildly annoyed" and one step down from "you are made of stone and in Straak's way."
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That last one seems wrong to me. Straak is always very careful to avoid destroying interesting mineral patterns whenever possible. He would happily walk a longer route if it meant preserving some geological beauty. Now if you're in between him and the stones, then you should be worried.
 
You know, the Renaissance is an amazing ship for its crew size and cost. Seriously, it just kicks the ass of anything comparable. Fast, well-armed, tough, and looks good doing it with that Presence 4.

No flies on the Constitution-Bs, which are great stopgap cruisers, but Rennies are going to roll right over Jalduns and Kaldars.
 
Chaos Blade said:
Dunno, both sounds militaristic to me, sorry, not seeing the difference, or rather it is such a slight difference it offers no real difference or make it worth it.
Garrison is fine, it is a descriptor of the role and works
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The difference is that garrisons are inherently military. Or, at the very least, more inherently military. Case in point:

Google said:
Garrison:
n. the troops stationed in a fortress or town to defend it.
- the building occupied by troops stationed in a town to defend it.
v. provide (a place) with a body of troops.
- station (troops) in a particular place.
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vs.
Google said:
Patrol:
n.
1. an expedition to keep watch over an area, especially by guards or police walking or driving around at regular intervals.
- a person or group of people sent to keep watch over an area.
- the action of keeping watch over an area by walking or driving around it at regular intervals.
- a routine operational voyage of a ship or aircraft.
2. a unit of six to eight Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts forming part of a troop.
v. keep watch over (an area) by regularly walking or traveling around or through it.
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On one side, we have troops. On the other, we have Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Let the record state that the defendant made a good faith attempt to attribute proper credit for the joke, but made a mistake regarding its point of origin. A correction will be issued.
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Too late, the lizard space-MPAA is on their way :mad:

On that note, have we considered checking for any more 20/21st century folks frozen on satellites? Maybe we can find a Disney IP lawyer to help us with the Dylaarians in exchange for curing his boneitis.

AlphaDelta said:
On one side, we have troops. On the other, we have Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts.
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Girl Guides ain't nothin' to fuck with
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Jaldun-A possibly tho.
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Ask yourself why they still build Jalduns at all if they could be building nothing but Kaldurs, which are just Jalduns with an extra weapons pod strapped to them. I have to think there are cost issues.

AlphaDelta said:
The difference is that garrisons are inherently military. Or, at the very least, more inherently military. Case in point:
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I think avoidance of all military terminology is a bad idea anyway. It's one thing to not only be a military, but you don't want people fooling themselves that it's not one of Starfleet's jobs.
 
The Klingons and Romulans made the Federation sign a treaty swearing never to unleash Earthling lawyers on the galaxy as a weapon of international conflict. Some things, not even the Klingons are bold enough to face willingly.

Nervos Belli said:
That last one seems wrong to me. Straak is always very careful to avoid destroying interesting mineral patterns whenever possible. He would happily walk a longer route if it meant preserving some geological beauty. Now if you're in between him and the stones, then you should be worried.
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Okay fine. :(

Briefvoice said:
You know, the Renaissance is an amazing ship for its crew size and cost. Seriously, it just kicks the ass of anything comparable. Fast, well-armed, tough, and looks good doing it with that Presence 4.

No flies on the Constitution-Bs, which are great stopgap cruisers, but Rennies are going to roll right over Jalduns and Kaldars.
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Kaldars are pretty close to Rennies in performance although those extra 10 HP of shielding is a significant disadvantage. But yeah, until the Cardassians either roll out a Jaldun-A or make large numbers of their own next-generation cruiser, we have a bit of an edge whenever the Rennies show up.

Then again, we already had an edge what with all of our explorers, something the Cardassians never really tried to match. And given how many of them the Cardies had when we met them in '05, it's fairly clear that the Jaldun is a pre-2300 design, albeit probably a 2290s-era design or something. The refit will be along any time now.
 
Briefvoice said:
I think avoidance of all military terminology is a bad idea anyway. It's one thing to not only be a military, but you don't want people fooling themselves that it's not one of Starfleet's jobs.
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Garrison might be something of a misnomer though since, as I understand it, we're interested in giving them high science and presence to respond to events -- ie patrolling. I'd consider a Garrison Escort something more like low D, higher C/H/L. The equivalent of the archers you use to garrison cities in Civilization.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Kaldars are 0.3mt bigger than a Jaldun. That's half a Miranda. I seriously doubt they are "just" a weapons pod strapped on a Jaldun. That seems like quest fanon to me.
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They have identical stats and crew, except the Kaldars have +1C and +1D. That seems like far too little a difference for entirely separate designs. I mean, why would anyone ever go to all the effort of prototyping and building an entirely new ship design for only a +2 increase in total stats? That's whack. The Kaldar almost has to be a modified Jaldun design. Maybe not just a weapons pod, but much the same design.
 
Briefvoice said:
You know, the Renaissance is an amazing ship for its crew size and cost. Seriously, it just kicks the ass of anything comparable. Fast, well-armed, tough, and looks good doing it with that Presence 4.

No flies on the Constitution-Bs, which are great stopgap cruisers, but Rennies are going to roll right over Jalduns and Kaldars.
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I'm pretty sure the cardassians have a new cruiser in the works. They can't have been comfortable with the Sydraxians having better warships than them, and are probably even less so now that we've wrecked a fleet of those superior warships.

There is considerable evidence, also, that the jaldun is a dated model that's been in use for much longer than the takaaki. As such, I expect their next new ship to be a new cruiser or possibly battleship, and I expect it to come out fairly soon.
 
Leila Hann said:
I'm pretty sure the cardassians have a new cruiser in the works. They can't have been comfortable with the Sydraxians having better warships than them, and are probably even less so now that we've wrecked a fleet of those superior warships.

There is considerable evidence, also, that the jaldun is a dated model that's been in use for much longer than the takaaki. As such, I expect their next new ship to be a new cruiser or possibly battleship, and I expect it to come out fairly soon.
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We did just get a report on their shipbuilding, and it doesn't seem like they have a prototype in the works. And assuming they follow the same rules regarding prototypes as we do, a cruiser replacement for the Jaldun would take 4.5 years to build. So either they are five years minimum from their next generation cruiser, they can jump straight into mass production without prototyping in which case I'd expect major reliability issues, or they have a secret shipyard where they are building a secret prototype. I'm leaning towards the first myself, since our intel has always been pretty good.
 
Briefvoice said:
They have identical stats and crew, except the Kaldars have +1C and +1D. That seems like far too little a difference for entirely separate designs. I mean, why would anyone ever go to all the effort of prototyping and building an entirely new ship design for only a +2 increase in total stats? That's whack. The Kaldar almost has to be a modified Jaldun design. Maybe not just a weapons pod, but much the same design.
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Eh, if you look at our frontpage designs there are a lot issuances of ships only being 3 points apart so I don#t think it is as rare or strange as you make it out to be... Plus the added shield and combat was probably worthwhile in the "early" game, especially for an aggressive race the Cards.
 
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AlphaDelta said:
The difference is that garrisons are inherently military. Or, at the very least, more inherently military. Case in point:


vs.

On one side, we have troops. On the other, we have Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts.
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Naming conventions of units asides (because using patrol in the sense used in the scout def is not the activity but the unit)... you do not find the scouts to have sorta like... military trappings?
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Kaldars are 0.3mt bigger than a Jaldun. That's half a Miranda. I seriously doubt they are "just" a weapons pod strapped on a Jaldun. That seems like quest fanon to me.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
. The USS T'Mir has intercepted footage of a modified Jaldun, which has had an additional combat module added to it, and larger nacelles, a heavier-hitting, faster ship known as a Kaldar.
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Well, a weapons pod and a new set of nacelles. But mostly the same.
 
Nervos Belli said:
We did just get a report on their shipbuilding, and it doesn't seem like they have a prototype in the works. And assuming they follow the same rules regarding prototypes as we do, a cruiser replacement for the Jaldun would take 4.5 years to build. So either they are five years minimum from their next generation cruiser, they can jump straight into mass production without prototyping in which case I'd expect major reliability issues, or they have a secret shipyard where they are building a secret prototype. I'm leaning towards the first myself, since our intel has always been pretty good.
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Good old [REDACTED UNDER CLASS 1-AA SECRETS] has never let us down! :D
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Kaldars are 0.3mt bigger than a Jaldun. That's half a Miranda. I seriously doubt they are "just" a weapons pod strapped on a Jaldun. That seems like quest fanon to me.
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Well, we know or think we know their statline, and that is pretty much the only difference.

Maybe they have something extra that isn't captured by the statline? Maybe they have a big fat cargo bay for carrying military/emergency supplies. Or a huge repair bay that lets them serve as a poor man's engineering ship.

Nervos Belli said:
We did just get a report on their shipbuilding, and it doesn't seem like they have a prototype in the works. And assuming they follow the same rules regarding prototypes as we do, a cruiser replacement for the Jaldun would take 4.5 years to build. So either they are five years minimum from their next generation cruiser, they can jump straight into mass production without prototyping in which case I'd expect major reliability issues, or they have a secret shipyard where they are building a secret prototype. I'm leaning towards the first myself, since our intel has always been pretty good.
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They might have already finished their prototype and just decided to go through some testing and extra work before laying down their first wave of the new design. Or we might have missed something- say, we "know" they're building three Jalduns in a yard, but in reality they're building two Jalduns and a Galor prototype, and they just talk about it as "the third Jaldun" in their internal communications. Plenty of people have done that in real life.

The Cardassians are hella secretive and good at espionage, so it wouldn't be surprising if they can keep at least SOME important things secret from our spies and signals intelligence.
 
They could also be "building" 3 Jalduns a year but haven't actually increased their production and are really building 2 Jalduns and one Jaldun refit. Really there's a lot of wiggle room. Also possible they consider they might be pushing the Kaldar into a Jaldun role in the future.
 
IIRC, we don't really know the full stat line of the Kaldar. We know the stat line of the Jaldun and can infer the Kaldar's stat line, and indeed, we have confirmation on the combat-relevant stats recently. But we don't know for sure what the science and presence stats of the Kaldar are. It's still likely they're S3 P3, but they could be S3 P4 like our Rennie for all we know.

BTW, the fact we don't know the Kaldar's stat line for sure is very weird, considering we have a defector who commanded a modified Kaldar.
 
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