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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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random_npc said:
that tends to be the results of letting parties earmark PP. all the parties actually want to help the federations, so they tend to pick stuff that's actually fairly useful. If not always things that are immediately useful. It's less PP down the drain, and more they shuffle our priority list a bit.
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My comment was mostly directed towards the fact that we got both the faction deal with development and a subcommittee was created to look into the Licori-Ked Paddah conflict.

But yeah, the Pacifists taking 15 of our PP and turning that into another 2 medical Renaissance's and 2 cargo ships is amazing too.
 
Oh I really really an not wait to see the new fleet on displays. Excelsior Refits and Rennies will be our main workhorses.

And in the next Snakepit I expect the Constellation refit.
 
Well, it's broadly in line with what we could have achieved for ourselves in terms of raw resource costs- two medical Renaissances (I hereby dub thee... the Vesalius-class!) plus two cargo ships probably doesn't cost much more than an Excelsior, and we could get the budget for one of those for around that price.

But it's still a good way to spend the 15pp, even if not what we might have chosen for ourselves (e.g. an Academy expansion or a push on the Yan-Ros or the Gretarians).
 
remulian said:
Oh I really really an not wait to see the new fleet on displays. Excelsior Refits and Rennies will be our main workhorses.

And in the next Snakepit I expect the Constellation refit.
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I honestly think it would be a good idea would be to ask the member world navies which of the designs they would prefer.

They have more Constellation's collectively than us and get less resources each year than us, which might end up making the cruiser refit a worse idea on their parts despite probably being the more useful design.

Anyway, the point is that it can't hurt to ask them and then take their opinions into account when making our decision.

Simon_Jester said:
Well, it's broadly in line with what we could have achieved for ourselves in terms of raw resource costs- two medical Renaissances (I hereby dub thee... the Vesalius-class!) plus two cargo ships probably doesn't cost much more than an Excelsior, and we could get the budget for one of those for around that price.

But it's still a good way to spend the 15pp, even if not what we might have chosen for ourselves (e.g. an Academy expansion or a push on the Yan-Ros or the Gretarians).
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Given there was discussion back when the medical design was picked about possibly asking at some point in the future for resources to be set aside to build more medical Renaissance's, quite frankly this is a great outcome.
 
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To be fair, the Oberth would be totally possible (or should be) if it just weren't so insanely tiny compared to all the other ships in our fleet. There's no obvious reason why it should have to be so small, either; even the Soyuz-class escorts of comparable design vintage are about twice the tonnage.
 
Simon_Jester said:
To be fair, the Oberth would be totally possible (or should be) if it just weren't so insanely tiny compared to all the other ships in our fleet. There's no obvious reason why it should have to be so small, either; even the Soyuz-class escorts of comparable design vintage are about twice the tonnage.
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Space-time anomalies were involved in its design. :V
 
Possible corrections:

OneirosTheWriter said:
Federation Resilience 17
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This should be 27:

2312.Q4.M2 - Council Emergency Session Pt 2:
OneirosTheWriter said:
- Federation Resilience increases to 25.
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2312.Q4.M2 - Master of Orion:
OneirosTheWriter said:
[Total: 13 Impact, 7 Cost, +2 Resilience]
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OneirosTheWriter said:
2313 Progress Report
84 Impact To Date
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[Not a correction] Okay, it looks like the existing legislative plan annual got added to the 54 56 impact from events, so this indicates we're guaranteed that the revised legislation will have at least 28 annual impact (i.e. it can't go lower than this).

60 Cost To Date (43 After Resilience) - NB: All from Carry-over
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This doesn't make sense to me.

First, we had 121 cost, and 121/2 = 61, rounded. Last year, we had 55/2=27.5, and that was rounded to 28, so the same should apply here.

Second, we didn't accrue any cost yet this year, so how is resilience having an effect right now?

Is it that each year's resilience just subtracts total cost rather than the year's accrued cost?

If resilience is supposed to be used here, why 17 and not 27? Is it just a late application of the new resilience from last year, so that it didn't help for 2312 EOY, but it helps right after that? Will the full 27 resilience be applied again in 2313 EOY?
 
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OneirosTheWriter said:
I do have a suspicion that at some stage the Federation will look around and realise just how massive Starfleet has become.
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You know, from watching Startrek I never actually thought there was any civilian oversight of Starfleet from the Federation. The only impression I got was that the Federation is basically organs Starfleet uses to keep itself going and have somewhere to put non-employed people (ie not-Starfleet)

Yes, there is a council, and an (somehow) elected president, but even in ST:TOS it was Starfleet calling all the major diplomatic shots and foreign policy by the massive authority individual Captains where invested. Even ST:TNG continued this, Starfleet/Federation is aggressively a meritocracy at every level we've seen.
 
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Xon said:
You know, from watching Startrek I never actually thought there was any civilian oversight of Starfleet from the Federation. The only impression I got was that the Federation is basically organs Starfleet uses to keep itself going.

Yes, there is a council, and an (somehow) elected president, but even in ST:TOS it was Starfleet calling all the major diplomatic shots and foreign policy by the massive authority individual Captains where invested. Even ST:TNG continued this, Starfleet/Federation is aggressively a meritocracy at every level we've seen.
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In TOS "A Taste of Armageddon" it was pretty clear that Starfleet was subordinate to a civilian government that conducted foreign policy, with Kirk only taking over the mission once it became a combat situation.

But that might be an outlier.
 
Leila Hann said:
In TOS "A Taste of Armageddon" it was pretty clear that Starfleet was subordinate to a civilian government that conducted foreign policy, with Kirk only taking over the mission once it became a combat situation.

But that might be an outlier.
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The episode where Kirk made it very clear he had the unilateral authority to A/M bomb a planet back to the Stone Age, you mean?
 
lbmaian said:
Possible corrections:



This should be 27:

2312.Q4.M2 - Council Emergency Session Pt 2:

2312.Q4.M2 - Master of Orion:




[Not a correction] Okay, it looks like the existing legislative plan annual got added to the 54 impact from events, so this indicates we're guaranteed that the revised legislation will have at least 28 annual impact (i.e. it can't go lower than this).



This doesn't make sense to me.

First, we had 121 cost, and 121/2 = 61, rounded. Last year, we had 55/2=27.5, and that was rounded to 28, so the same should apply here.

Second, we didn't accrue any cost yet this year, so how is resilience having an effect right now?

Is it that each year's resilience just subtracts total cost rather than the year's accrued cost?

If resilience is supposed to be used here, why 17 and not 27? Is it just a late application of the new resilience from last year, so that it didn't help for 2312 EOY, but it helps right after that? Will the full 27 resilience be applied again in 2313 EOY?
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We have had 56 impact from events, 50 from Q1 Master of Orion and 6 from Captains Logs
 
aeqnai said:
The episode where Kirk made it very clear he had the unilateral authority to A/M bomb a planet back to the Stone Age, you mean?
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Yes.

The ambassador they were carrying was the one calling the shots, and Kirk had to listen to him and stay out of his way...until it became a combat situation, at which point their roles were reversed. It seemed to me like there was a clear division of powers based on the type of problem that needs solving.
 
Yes.

Basically, the Enterprise is a military unit that's designed to defend herself if attacked. And Enterprise's combined right-and-obligation of self-defense takes precedence over the orders of a diplomat who could otherwise boss Kirk around.

The point here being that "devastate the planet that attacked the Enterprise" is considered, under Starfleet standing orders, to be a reasonable level of force for Enterprise to use defending herself.

It makes a lot of sense if you think like it's the Cold War, when it was quite common to give airbases and army divisions tactical nuclear weapons specifically so they could defend themselves with overwhelming, devastating (nuclear) force if attacked. And if you use the TOS/TNG sense of scale where there are a lot of inhabited planets out there, the Federation alone probably comprising hundreds of them, the Klingons hundreds more, and various minor neutral polities in between even more hundreds.

Without the '60s concept of mutually assured destruction being a normative thing, it starts to make us a little queasy: "Surely their civilization deserves a second chance to avoid being bombed into the Stone Age, even if they do prepare to kill an explorer." But I hope that at least clarifies the question. It's not that Kirk can just randomly blow up civilizations on a lark and get away with it. It's that under specific circumstances, General Order 24 can apply when a ship of Kirk's Starfleet is defending itself.
 
Simon_Jester said:
Yes.

Basically, the Enterprise is a military unit that's designed to defend herself if attacked. And Enterprise's combined right-and-obligation of self-defense takes precedence over the orders of a diplomat who could otherwise boss Kirk around.

The point here being that "devastate the planet that attacked the Enterprise" is considered, under Starfleet standing orders, to be a reasonable level of force for Enterprise to use defending herself.

It makes a lot of sense if you think like it's the Cold War, when it was quite common to give airbases and army divisions tactical nuclear weapons specifically so they could defend themselves with overwhelming, devastating (nuclear) force if attacked. And if you use the TOS/TNG sense of scale where there are a lot of inhabited planets out there, the Federation alone probably comprising hundreds of them, the Klingons hundreds more, and various minor neutral polities in between even more hundreds.

Without the '60s concept of mutually assured destruction being a normative thing, it starts to make us a little queasy: "Surely their civilization deserves a second chance to avoid being bombed into the Stone Age, even if they do prepare to kill an explorer." But I hope that at least clarifies the question. It's not that Kirk can just randomly blow up civilizations on a lark and get away with it. It's that under specific circumstances, General Order 24 can apply when a ship of Kirk's Starfleet is defending itself.
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And also in defense of paternity suits and other such legal offensives :p
 
Ah man. Well, stop, breathe, don't push yourself to do unnecessary stuff like the quest. Lie back on a heating pad on a firm supportive surface if you can; take your time.

If a muscle group seizes up and twists you over to one side or something, nothing for it but to stretch it back out, even if it hurts. At least that's my experience.

Good luck, hope it clears up fast.
 
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