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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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pheonix89 said:
@Leila Hann
Eyup. That's probably a problem that the syndicate is having. People realizing that their loved ones are getting statistically sacrificed to try and create propaganda and going rogue.
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Plus the whole "We're in this for profit, not literally ensuring the Federation loses what patience they have".

Remember, they are supposed to be out for profit. And so far, they've burned a shitload of it. And I suspect Orion support for it is dwindling rapidly.
 
Night_stalker said:
Plus the whole "We're in this for profit, not literally ensuring the Federation loses what patience they have".

Remember, they are supposed to be out for profit. And so far, they've burned a shitload of it. And I suspect Orion support for it is dwindling rapidly.
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If they had only stayed with the pure profit-making instead of terrorist-attacks on ambassadors this whole police-action/civil war never would have started.
Or at least not now.
 
I'd love to see Seruk gone any day now. Remember he was the guy who put a PP cost on ka'Sharren, which implies he was going to kick up a stink at the Council level. And we got mad at Linderly for being insubordinate!

Nah honestly I think he can take a hike.
 
Artemis1992 said:
If they had only stayed with the pure profit-making instead of terrorist-attacks on ambassadors this whole police-action/civil war never would have started.
Or at least not now.
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Plus the whole WMD and all out open warfare.

And their affiliation with the Spoonheads.

I'm reminded of a omake by @Leila Hann that basically sums up the Orion issue at the moment. We need to actually move on the Hypercorps in addition to the Syndicate, because otherwise, we'll be dealing with this in 20 more years.
 
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Iron Wolf said:
I'd love to see Seruk gone any day now. Remember he was the guy who put a PP cost on ka'Sharren, which implies he was going to kick up a stink at the Council level. And we got mad at Linderly for being insubordinate!

Nah honestly I think he can take a hike.
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Given pp is our ability to get things through the council, I don't think Seruk was responsible for that. With high-profile positions like EC captains, the Council doesn't want one person hogging the seat. I bet if Kahurangi had tried to stay around longer than ten years we would have had to pay a hefty pp price to keep her as well.
 
Night_stalker said:
Plus the whole WMD and all out open warfare.
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Yeah, but that happened long after we started our anti-syndicate actions. They where helping the Spoonheads kill our goverment-officials before we got started with the whole anti-slavery taskforce stuff. I think that was what triggered it?

Nervos Belli said:
Given pp is our ability to get things through the council, I don't think Seruk was responsible for that. With high-profile positions like EC captains, the Council doesn't want one person hogging the seat. I bet if Kahurangi had tried to stay around longer than ten years we would have had to pay a hefty pp price to keep her as well.
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All the more reason to start the Kadeshi reverse-engineering project.
Part of the Crew, Part of the Ship. Forever!
 
Artemis1992 said:
If they had only stayed with the pure profit-making instead of terrorist-attacks on ambassadors this whole police-action/civil war never would have started.
Or at least not now.
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To be fair, the attack on the Amarki ratification ceremony almost certainly was profit motivated. Pretty clearly a Cardassian contract killing.

It led the Syndicate down a slippery slope, though.

Nervos Belli said:
They're out there somewhere I'm sure. We've got a lot of time between now and TNG era.
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In TNG, the Trill were portrayed as a newly encountered species. In DS9, this was retconned to them having been a Federation affiliate for some decades.

Depending on which interpretation Oneiros goes with, it could be as long as fifty years before we're due to meet the Trill.
 
Leila Hann said:
To be fair, the attack on the Amarki ratification ceremony almost certainly was profit motivated. Pretty clearly a Cardassian contract killing.

It led the Syndicate down a slippery slope, though.
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That's some shitty cost benefit analysis. Starting a war with a great power is a very, very large cost. Cardassia can't have offered them nearly enough money for that to be worth it.
 
pheonix89 said:
It would be amusing if it turns out that Seruk's bonus has been the default state of affairs in some way.

And yeah, the Rennie is way better than the Ares. Using the projected design spec (which was apparently technologically unworkable, mind) It's down one point of C and D, for two points of S, and half the size. If we were to design a pure war cruiser off the Rennie hull I'd expect it to be overall better, because I'm pretty sure we could get more that just a point of C and D if we wrote off two points of S and 3 points of P. The result is NOT a ship we'd ever be able to deploy for independent operations, however, so it's problematic from any non-militarist perspective.
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The projected specs for the Ares were what the prototype would have had after they were forced to drop a a lot of the newer technology that wasn't ready yet. The stats that the program first envisioned, and that they were telling the council it would have would have been a bit higher. A lot of the science capability originally slated for the Ares became equipment that it was 'designed for, but not with'.

The stat line if the development hadn't been messed up would probably have been something like; C6 S4 H4 L5 P4 D6, which is basically a budget Excelsior, and with lots of room for possible refits.

Rogers essentially asked the council to let the Ares program continue, even with it's dismally low science capability, proposing that it would be rectified with refits once the technology was ready and the class was in production. The council by this point was unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt any longer.
 
Night_stalker said:
Plus the whole WMD and all out open warfare.

And their affiliation with the Spoonheads.

I'm reminded of a omake by @Simon_Jester that basically sums up the Orion issue at the moment. We need to actually move on the Hypercorps in addition to the Syndicate, because otherwise, we'll be dealing with this in 20 more years.
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Luckily, this is the perfect time for President Oyana and her comrades like Sierre to push their political wishlist/ endgame.

I have ideas along this line.
 
Leila Hann said:
To be fair, the attack on the Amarki ratification ceremony almost certainly was profit motivated. Pretty clearly a Cardassian contract killing.

It led the Syndicate down a slippery slope, though.
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They got involved in politics at that point. Even if it was with purely mercenary intend, it was a step away from regular crime, into acting directly against the Federation.
I hope the person responsible for making that deal got at some point blamed by his comrades and thrown in one of those suiced attacks.
 
pheonix89 said:
Also, McAdams just joined the club of Captains who have personally scienced someone to death.

It looked to me like she had a tricorder app to scan for shield vulnerabilities and automatically recalibrate a phaser to hit them.
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I have a perfect quote for this, from SB:
Gear said:
Hello ladies, look at your weapon, now back to me, now back to your weapon, now back to me.
Sadly, it isn't me, but if you stopped using other weapon tech and switched to phasers, it could function like he's me

Look down, back up, where are you, you're on a ship with the phasers your weapons could be.
Whats in your hand, back to me, I am, I'm a phaser with infinite settings to do that thing you need.
look again, that thing you need is now diamonds.

Anything is possible when your weapons are phasers and not disruptors.

I'm performing a C-section from orbit.



To me, Phasers are the ultimate swiss army knife of weapon tech. There's a setting for everything. Need to drill a hole? There's a setting for that! Cut a piece of material? There's a setting for that! Need heat or light? There's a setting for that! Entire city rendered unconscious? Setting! Borg invasion? A whole lot of settings! Alien of the week with strange and incomprehensible technology? Actually no, there isn't one for that. JUST KIDDING! of course there's a setting for that.

And it scales all the way from keychain to Capital ship sized, and it's power can be anything from 'pretty light' to 'vaporise a mountain (Or more!)'.

Anything is possible when your weapons are Phasers!
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pheonix89 said:
That's some shitty cost benefit analysis. Starting a war with a great power is a very, very large cost. Cardassia can't have offered them nearly enough money for that to be worth it.
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I doubt they saw it that way at the time; after all, the Syndicate has been screwing with the Union government at that level for a very long time, and with the Federation at a lesser level for a good period too.

Their mistake was combining the two.
 
Night said:
I doubt they saw it that way at the time; after all, the Syndicate has been screwing with the Union government at that level for a very long time, and with the Federation at a lesser level for a good period too.

Their mistake was combining the two.
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That, again, falls under shitty cost benefit analysis. There's screwing with the Federation, then there's direct violence against the Federation Council. One of them results in the people who can order Starfleet to end you having a personal grudge.

This is like escalating from trying to coerce people involved in RICO investigations to suicide-bombing Congress.
 
pheonix89 said:
Ugh, these missed science events are a very good reason for Oberths EVERYWHERE if we can get the crew for that.

Or to beeline Mutual Support because if my understanding of the mechanics is right a Excelsior at a -2 response modifier is a better responder than anything else with no penalties save OG Connies responding to presence events.

Edit: Wrong Forward Defense tech.
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One looked like a missed presence event, but in both cases ships did not meet response rolls needed.


Briefvoice said:
I mean, we haven't actually decided to that. There have been several votes were we came near to making Seruk retire, and I think we're only waiting on the Snakepit where we can spare the pp. I'm all for encouraging him to resign next time we have enough political will to get to third tier priorities.
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Seruk for Vice Admiral, that we get his bonus and keep him around.
 
pheonix89 said:
That's some shitty cost benefit analysis. Starting a war with a great power is a very, very large cost. Cardassia can't have offered them nearly enough money for that to be worth it.
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They weren't thinking about that. They were renting assets to the Cardassians (remember, a Cardassian life sign was detected), and they didn't count on Sulu discovering their outpost, nor on the Federation retaliation to an attack on their democracy. That led to the Courageous's raid on to gain intel on yet another Syndicate business deal with the Cardies (selling the cloak), and what happened to the Courageous led to the first anti-slavery act.

Basically, the Cardassians were looking for Intel ins to Federation space, the Syndicate were convenient and took the latnium or whatever without thinking, and things escalated.

This thing with the Union was always going to happen, but closer to or even after 400 or 500 level diplo. But you can trace blame for it happening early to the Cardassians.
 
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pheonix89 said:
That, again, falls under shitty cost benefit analysis. There's screwing with the Federation, then there's direct violence against the Federation Council. One of them results in the people who can order Starfleet to end you having a personal grudge.

This is like escalating from trying to coerce people involved in RICO investigations to suicide-bombing Congress.
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Running with the numerous Narcos references that have been made throughout the anti-syndicate campaign it actually maps pretty well with the behavior of the cartels in Columbia during that period. Escobar and co. assassinated numerous politicians including presidential candidates, and at one point orchestrated an armed assault to take over the Columbian justice department and destroy the records kept there.
 
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