Remember member worlds have crew limitations as well. They would face the same choice if crewing a Constellation we gave them versus a new ship.
Personally I'd like to give them to Starfleet Medical and Starfleet Engineering.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
-
- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Remember member worlds have crew limitations as well. They would face the same choice if crewing a Constellation we gave them versus a new ship.
Personally I'd like to give them to Starfleet Medical and Starfleet Engineering.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Since we already have a new hospital ship, I'd figure on either refitting them engineering ships OR refitting them as general service ships. I favor the latter, under the circumstances.
- Location
- Earth
'pinches nose, sighs' I'm finding making my position on any of these topics clear to you an exercise in frustration, and since you very obviously don't intend to change any of yours anyway, let's just drop this.
- Location
- Patriarchova
One of the reasons I favored the constie-based hospital ship is because we narratively decided that the quad-nacelle design gives the constie a great short term "sprinting" ability. Sounds useful for a hospital ship.
Its too late for that, of course. But I would love it if the poor old constie found a use for itself.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I thought I understood rather clearly: you think retiring Constellations to put the crews into Rennies is a good idea and helps with our crew crunch. This isn't a bad idea as such, it's been suggested before, it's something we've always been willing to consider.
As long as we recognize the limitations of doing it,* there isn't a problem.
What aspect of your point have I failed to understand?
_________________
*(Mainly that we are in effect 'refitting' a low-end ship into a high-end ship, and opening up a hole in our deployments that some other ship will have to fill. Not simply getting a new high-end ship which we can use freely to do whatever we wish)
To be fair, the ships may very well become quite useful in normal rear area fleet service with refits (apparently there's an obstacle to finding out what refit options are available with the new new spreadsheet). Right now they're little or no worse than a lot of the ships we're already using for that duty; they're just crew-expensive. A good spreadsheet refit could well turn them into a design we're happy to have around.
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Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
We could always sell them the designs to a berth that would be big enough for the Constellations if they don't already have the designs already.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Then they'd have to build the berths, which would represent a diversion of effort away from "produce as many warships compatible with our own doctrines as we can."
Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
Yea but the benefits would definitely be worth the loss of ship building material in the long run. They would have that in mind when it comes to building their fleet.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Given the insane cost/power ratio on Stingers I'm willing to bet Apinae is one of the hardest nuts to crack in the quadrant. The problem with Stingers is that they have nearly zero strategic mobility or operational endurance without a mothership, and Queenships aren't that great as combatants on their own. Remove the need for Queenships to deploy Stingers, and jesus, the things are the best warship in the quadrant. Stingers curbstomp their equivalent resource value in ... almost anything, actually.
I'd expect there to be 20+ stingers and old stingers floating around Apinae as a defense group and as quick replacements for Queenships that need their Stinger repaired. And 10 stingers casually smushes anything anyone else can field for 600 each in the forseeable future.
I'd expect there to be 20+ stingers and old stingers floating around Apinae as a defense group and as quick replacements for Queenships that need their Stinger repaired. And 10 stingers casually smushes anything anyone else can field for 600 each in the forseeable future.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I imagine that Stingers can also use an outpost or starbase as a 'queenship' for support purposes.
Anyway, pheonix89 is right. The flip side of that is that the Apiata could really, really use some generalist ships that aren't utterly dependent on the support of a queenship. They just don't have the infrastructure to build the things for themselves, not while maximizing their combat capability right now.
Anyway, pheonix89 is right. The flip side of that is that the Apiata could really, really use some generalist ships that aren't utterly dependent on the support of a queenship. They just don't have the infrastructure to build the things for themselves, not while maximizing their combat capability right now.
I don't think they're worried about the long run. They're worried about the short run, and rightly so, because they could be invaded by the Cardassian fleet literally any day as the opening shot in the Cardassian-Federation War.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
They probably have a 1mt or 2mt berth or two for bulk freighters.
Which are not the forager, by the way. The Forager's a science/recon ship. One that's a straight upgrade over the oberth. Costs a bit more br, LESS sr, has another point of combat, science and presence, and TWO more defense.
The Apatia make THE best escort scale vessels in the galaxy, bar none. If we don't get a level 3 or 4 escort design team from ratifying them my SOD is going to be pushed. I could seriously buy them having level 5 or even 6 teams given how WTFHAX their escorts are.
Constellations are NOT what they need. For non-combat purposes a constellation is largely worse than a Forager, it's worse at everything than a Little Queenship, it doesn't work with their doctrine at all.
Apatia Doctrine is some sort of carrier variant hybrid of Lone Ranger. Queenships are absurdly tough as long as shield pen is a mild factor, Stingers bring murderous firepower. If you think of the Queenship + Stingers as a Capital Ship and a special weapons system rather than a Capital Ship and two Escorts, it's basically a militaristic version of Lone Ranger.
Also, if they thought they needed it, they'd have made a generalist variant of the Forager with some more shields and guns. Forager's basically Oberth+, Modern Stinger is Miranda+, Old Stinger is Soyuz+, if they want to make a Centaur+ they already would have.
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Interestingly the Caitians have a similar fleet comp.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Pheonix, I'm pretty sure that like the Stinger, the Forager-class shares the disadvantage of being a short-ranged vessel dependent on logistical support from a mothership. I could be wrong about that but it's what I recall from past descriptions of the Apiata fleet.
The big hole in the Apiata fleet design doctrine, and extensionally that of the Caitians, is the lack of high-endurance ships that can operate independently of a mothership/fathership/queenship/whatever. They may be comfortable with that limitation, but it's still a relevant one. And in the case of the Apiata, it's one they don't really have the military shipyard infrastructure to work around.
The big hole in the Apiata fleet design doctrine, and extensionally that of the Caitians, is the lack of high-endurance ships that can operate independently of a mothership/fathership/queenship/whatever. They may be comfortable with that limitation, but it's still a relevant one. And in the case of the Apiata, it's one they don't really have the military shipyard infrastructure to work around.
- Location
- USA
Forager is kind of their science ship actually, I think it does what it sounds like and goes and finds resources for them to exploit but can also defend itself against light ships.
Also all of this had me just spend my day watching all the dominion war episodes of DS9. Just finished the last episode again and during the In Pale Moonlight where they bring in the Romulans they mention that from Betazed the dominion could attack Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar and Alpha Centauri. Also in another episode with S31 and Romulus they mention that Tuvan syndrome is something the Rigelans could be affected by. Just found that kind of neat having seen them in the quest.
Also all of this had me just spend my day watching all the dominion war episodes of DS9. Just finished the last episode again and during the In Pale Moonlight where they bring in the Romulans they mention that from Betazed the dominion could attack Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar and Alpha Centauri. Also in another episode with S31 and Romulus they mention that Tuvan syndrome is something the Rigelans could be affected by. Just found that kind of neat having seen them in the quest.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yep. It's not quite as specialized, though. Fathership is basically an expensive, near-Excelsior-peer explorer with some stat shuffling that can provide some support for Caitian Swarmers. Queenships are thoroughly optimized for the carrier role, and split science off for the Forager.
It looks to me like Queenship + 2 Stingers are cheaper than and will outperform Fathership + 2 Swarmers at everything but science, and that's where the Forager comes in.
The Fathership is kind of all over the place as a design. Science is good but it's other utility stats are med for a generalist capital ship, firepower's weaksauce for a combat captial ship, Shields are good but hull isn't.
The Queenship is very clearly meant to do one thing: Deliver and support two Stingers. It's got the shields to take hits, the defense for rapid response, Stingers handle firepower, Foragers handle science. The crazy high Presence seems off until you remember that it's called a QUEENship for a reason.
Also, I THINK Caitian swarmers have much better independent ops capabilities.
Hmm, are you sure of that? We've seen foragers on independent ops. I'm sure they have low endurace compared to queenships, but that's escort-scale singleton vs capital-scale carrier. Queenships are in the upper brackets for endurance period.
Also, given that Apiata fleet design doctrine seems to treat Queenship/Base + Stingers as a single unit, I don't think that the shit endurance of Stingers is a weakness. A Stinger is a special weapon system, not an independent asset.
- Location
- Nova Scotia, Canada
What about a Constellation refit that focused on S/P to make them into something like the Presence escort that's been mentioned. If we take them from 4/3/2/2/2/4 to 2/4/2/2/4/4 they would make a good interior vessel and not take up much of our combat cap. I can see how that design meeting would go:
Admiral: Why did you reroute power from phasers to deck 6?
Lieutenant: The jacuzzi's needed more heat and bubbles sir.
Admiral: And removing the torpedo storage bay?
Lieutenant: We needed more blackjack tables. People were sitting at the bar waiting for too long.
Admiral: What about all these empty officer's quarters?
Lieutenant: That's for the hook... uh, backup entertainment areas.
Admiral: Do you honestly expect me to approve this design?
Lieutenant: ......Yes?
Admiral: Very well, carry on.
We even have the new recruitment ad ready to be broadcast across the Federation:
Admiral: Why did you reroute power from phasers to deck 6?
Lieutenant: The jacuzzi's needed more heat and bubbles sir.
Admiral: And removing the torpedo storage bay?
Lieutenant: We needed more blackjack tables. People were sitting at the bar waiting for too long.
Admiral: What about all these empty officer's quarters?
Lieutenant: That's for the hook... uh, backup entertainment areas.
Admiral: Do you honestly expect me to approve this design?
Lieutenant: ......Yes?
Admiral: Very well, carry on.
We even have the new recruitment ad ready to be broadcast across the Federation:
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's not a refit. That's a new design. Someone floated that idea once already.
- Location
- Australia
Once I get home I'll start putting on a second Stinger, and also change the bug out point for the Little Queenship to something involving still having shields.
I'm tossing up whether base Shield Regen should be stronger, but probably not...
I guess in the meantime I'll do the Rat Race post. Lets go promotions!
I'm tossing up whether base Shield Regen should be stronger, but probably not...
I guess in the meantime I'll do the Rat Race post. Lets go promotions!
Keeping regen low will mean the techs feel like they actually matter.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Though I wouldn't say no to later techs for better regen - when our shield scores are higher, and our weapons systems stronger, having improved shield regen won't be comparatively overpowered, but simply proportionally in-line - whilst raising the "minimum" standard of threats we can't just faceroll by out-regenerating them.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
New design?!?!? You mean USS Sappho right? This might even be canonical IIRC > : P
2312.Q4 - The Rat Race
- Location
- Australia
Starfleet Personnel - Promotions Board
2312.Q4
Highlighted Officer's Summary
Commissioned as Ensign
None
Promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade
Tiberius Kahurangi - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Tisana Bessle - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Dill chim Clunn - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Peter Woodruff - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Tybek - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
T'Pel - Assigned to USS Salnas
Lance Arthur - Assigned to USS Salnas
Promoted to Lieutenant
None
Promoted to Lieutenant-Commander
Spera Haran - Assigned to USS Odyssey
Criel Galthis - Assigned to USS Odyssey
Othar Yelea - Assigned to USS Odyssey
Arthur Acheson - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Promoted to Commander
Charity Yancey - Assigned to Chief Medical Officer, USS Odyssey
Promoted to Captain
Percival Amin - Assigned to First Officer, Starbase 10 [Rigel]
Larai Leaniss - Seconded to CA-Navy, Commander, CAS Riala (NCC-2202)
Promoted to Commodore
Yamada Ichigo - Assigned to Assistant Deputy Chief of Staff (Operations), Starfleet Command
Talan th'Zahliss - Assigned to Assistant Director, Starfleet Research Command
Promoted to Rear Admiral
Vinan - Assigned to Director, 40 Eridani Fleetyards from Chief, Propulsion Fabrication Division
Shrai sh'Cothyk - Assigned to Director, Utopia Planitia Fleetyards
Promoted to Vice Admiral
Patricia Chen - Assigned to Director, Shipyard Operations Command
Promoted to Admiral
Valentina Sousa
Retirements
Commodore Volin - Dean, Starfleet Diplomatic School, Starfleet Academy
Rear Admiral Sanik - Director, Starfleet Research Command
Key Reassignments
Captain T'Rinta - Assigned to Commander, USS Defiant, from Deputy Director, 40 Eridani A Fleet Yards
Captain Diego Zaardmani - Assigned to Commander, USS Torbriel, from Lecturer, Starfleet Academy
Commodore Charlotte O'Dea - Assigned to Dean, Starfleet Special Analysis School, Starfleet Academy from Director, Analysis Desk, Starfleet Intelligence
Rear Admiral T'Faer - Assigned to Commander, Starbase 9 [Lapycorias] from Director, Starfleet Logistics Command
Changes to Explorer Panel of Captains
Out:
In: Langa Mbeki (returned post-inquiry)
Placed on Sabbatical/Convalescent Leave
Rear Admiral Sirvk - Director 40 Eridani A Shipyard
Notice of Retirement
Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson - 6 month notice - Chief of Starfleet Operations
===============
Member World Coordination Office
Commenced:
Vulcan - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Tellar - 3 Miranda-A Refit
Earth - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Commissioned:
Vulcan - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Tellar - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Earth - 2 Miranda-A Refits
Repaired:
-
===============
Shipyard Operations Command Reprot
Admiral,
As per the construction plan approved at the beginning of 2312, the following construction has commenced:
Centaur-A (Build Order NCC-2124) @ San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 1 - ETC 2314.Q2
Centaur-A (Build Order NCC-2125) @ San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 2 - ETC 2314.Q2
This has required 160 units of Bulk Resources, and 140 units of Special Resources, and will tie up the two 1,000 kiloton shipyard berths until mid 2314.
Respectfully,
Vice Admiral Chen
===============
Starfleet Judge Advocate General Corps - Disciplinary Notice
Boards of Inquiry into the following incidents concluded during the year:
The Loss of the USS Lion to Spatial Anomalies
The Disablement of the USS Kearsage in orbit around New Rigel
The Loss of the USS Miracht to Unknown Forces
Board of Inquiry into the Loss of USS Lion to Spatial Anomalies
Presiding Judge: Captain Omar Greaves
Ship: USS Lion, NCC-1654
Definitive establishment of the USS Lion's destruction could not be established. All trace matter located was forensically examined and found to correspond to external components of the ship. Notably, no trace matter was located that was found to be under the radiation bombardment consistent with a breached warp core. It is the opinion of the Board that the USS Lion may have fallen prey to a temporal anomaly, and may reappear at some point in the future.
Board of Inquiry into the Disablement of the USS Kearsage in orbit around New Rigel
Presiding Judge: Captain Sujak
Ship: USS Kearsage, NCC-1811
After examining all relevant testimony, Captain Min-Jee Lee has been cleared of culpability for the damage sustained by the USS Kearsage. The Board considered all factors, and a number of recommendations have been handed to Starfleet Tactical for review. Two reprimands have been handed to bridge crew on the shift that responded to the incident in question over improperly followed procedure. However, it is not believed that without prior intelligence warning that such an attack was a possibility that there was anything Captain Min-Jee Lee and the crew of the USS Kearsage could have done within their power to prevent the crippling of the ship.
Commendations have been awarded to two dozen crew members who led the Damage Control and Recovery efforts during the aftermath of the disaster, as well as to Captain Iorin Grann of the Yukikaze (NCC-2101) for prompt and effective control of the situation.
Captain Min-Jee Lee has been returned to command of the USS Kearsage in preparation for its return to service.
Board of Inquiry into the loss of the USS Miracht to Unknown Forces
Presiding Judge: Commodore T'Maris
Ship: USS Miracht, NCC-2006
After examining all relevant testimony, Captain Langa Mbeki has been cleared of culpability for the loss of the USS Miracht. The Board has taken into consideration the tremendous power of the ground-based defence systems that attacked the Miracht, and the difficulty with which even thorough examination under ideal circumstances can reveal their dormant presence on the sensor records. Expert testimony was procured from noted Sensor Experts, Captain Diego Zaardmani and Commodore Victoria Eaton who both asserted that it was not a matter that could reasonably be expected to have been detected in advance.
Following on, the Board considered the actions of the Captain Langa Mbeki after the ship sustained damage, and was quickly crippled. Captain Langa Mbeki has been officially commended for his efforts in saving the lion's share of his crew in a difficult, unforeseeable calamity. Captain Langa Mbeki is hereby cleared to return to duty without restriction.
2312.Q4
Highlighted Officer's Summary
Commissioned as Ensign
None
Promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade
Tiberius Kahurangi - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Tisana Bessle - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Dill chim Clunn - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Peter Woodruff - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Tybek - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
T'Pel - Assigned to USS Salnas
Lance Arthur - Assigned to USS Salnas
Promoted to Lieutenant
None
Promoted to Lieutenant-Commander
Spera Haran - Assigned to USS Odyssey
Criel Galthis - Assigned to USS Odyssey
Othar Yelea - Assigned to USS Odyssey
Arthur Acheson - Assigned to USS Enterprise-B
Promoted to Commander
Charity Yancey - Assigned to Chief Medical Officer, USS Odyssey
Promoted to Captain
Percival Amin - Assigned to First Officer, Starbase 10 [Rigel]
Larai Leaniss - Seconded to CA-Navy, Commander, CAS Riala (NCC-2202)
Promoted to Commodore
Yamada Ichigo - Assigned to Assistant Deputy Chief of Staff (Operations), Starfleet Command
Talan th'Zahliss - Assigned to Assistant Director, Starfleet Research Command
Promoted to Rear Admiral
Vinan - Assigned to Director, 40 Eridani Fleetyards from Chief, Propulsion Fabrication Division
Shrai sh'Cothyk - Assigned to Director, Utopia Planitia Fleetyards
Promoted to Vice Admiral
Patricia Chen - Assigned to Director, Shipyard Operations Command
Promoted to Admiral
Valentina Sousa
Retirements
Commodore Volin - Dean, Starfleet Diplomatic School, Starfleet Academy
Rear Admiral Sanik - Director, Starfleet Research Command
Key Reassignments
Captain T'Rinta - Assigned to Commander, USS Defiant, from Deputy Director, 40 Eridani A Fleet Yards
Captain Diego Zaardmani - Assigned to Commander, USS Torbriel, from Lecturer, Starfleet Academy
Commodore Charlotte O'Dea - Assigned to Dean, Starfleet Special Analysis School, Starfleet Academy from Director, Analysis Desk, Starfleet Intelligence
Rear Admiral T'Faer - Assigned to Commander, Starbase 9 [Lapycorias] from Director, Starfleet Logistics Command
Changes to Explorer Panel of Captains
Out:
In: Langa Mbeki (returned post-inquiry)
Placed on Sabbatical/Convalescent Leave
Rear Admiral Sirvk - Director 40 Eridani A Shipyard
Notice of Retirement
Vice Admiral Heidi Eriksson - 6 month notice - Chief of Starfleet Operations
===============
Member World Coordination Office
Commenced:
Vulcan - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Tellar - 3 Miranda-A Refit
Earth - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Commissioned:
Vulcan - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Tellar - 1 Miranda-A Refit
Earth - 2 Miranda-A Refits
Repaired:
-
===============
Shipyard Operations Command Reprot
Admiral,
As per the construction plan approved at the beginning of 2312, the following construction has commenced:
Centaur-A (Build Order NCC-2124) @ San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 1 - ETC 2314.Q2
Centaur-A (Build Order NCC-2125) @ San Francisco Fleet Yards Berth 2 - ETC 2314.Q2
This has required 160 units of Bulk Resources, and 140 units of Special Resources, and will tie up the two 1,000 kiloton shipyard berths until mid 2314.
Respectfully,
Vice Admiral Chen
===============
Starfleet Judge Advocate General Corps - Disciplinary Notice
Boards of Inquiry into the following incidents concluded during the year:
The Loss of the USS Lion to Spatial Anomalies
The Disablement of the USS Kearsage in orbit around New Rigel
The Loss of the USS Miracht to Unknown Forces
Board of Inquiry into the Loss of USS Lion to Spatial Anomalies
Presiding Judge: Captain Omar Greaves
Ship: USS Lion, NCC-1654
Definitive establishment of the USS Lion's destruction could not be established. All trace matter located was forensically examined and found to correspond to external components of the ship. Notably, no trace matter was located that was found to be under the radiation bombardment consistent with a breached warp core. It is the opinion of the Board that the USS Lion may have fallen prey to a temporal anomaly, and may reappear at some point in the future.
Board of Inquiry into the Disablement of the USS Kearsage in orbit around New Rigel
Presiding Judge: Captain Sujak
Ship: USS Kearsage, NCC-1811
After examining all relevant testimony, Captain Min-Jee Lee has been cleared of culpability for the damage sustained by the USS Kearsage. The Board considered all factors, and a number of recommendations have been handed to Starfleet Tactical for review. Two reprimands have been handed to bridge crew on the shift that responded to the incident in question over improperly followed procedure. However, it is not believed that without prior intelligence warning that such an attack was a possibility that there was anything Captain Min-Jee Lee and the crew of the USS Kearsage could have done within their power to prevent the crippling of the ship.
Commendations have been awarded to two dozen crew members who led the Damage Control and Recovery efforts during the aftermath of the disaster, as well as to Captain Iorin Grann of the Yukikaze (NCC-2101) for prompt and effective control of the situation.
Captain Min-Jee Lee has been returned to command of the USS Kearsage in preparation for its return to service.
Board of Inquiry into the loss of the USS Miracht to Unknown Forces
Presiding Judge: Commodore T'Maris
Ship: USS Miracht, NCC-2006
After examining all relevant testimony, Captain Langa Mbeki has been cleared of culpability for the loss of the USS Miracht. The Board has taken into consideration the tremendous power of the ground-based defence systems that attacked the Miracht, and the difficulty with which even thorough examination under ideal circumstances can reveal their dormant presence on the sensor records. Expert testimony was procured from noted Sensor Experts, Captain Diego Zaardmani and Commodore Victoria Eaton who both asserted that it was not a matter that could reasonably be expected to have been detected in advance.
Following on, the Board considered the actions of the Captain Langa Mbeki after the ship sustained damage, and was quickly crippled. Captain Langa Mbeki has been officially commended for his efforts in saving the lion's share of his crew in a difficult, unforeseeable calamity. Captain Langa Mbeki is hereby cleared to return to duty without restriction.
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Amen to that. I'd give him another EC ship.
- Location
- USA
So Vice Admiral Heidi is retiring but Seruk is still there... at some point we need to either retire him or bump him to Vice Admiral. And T'fear is a Rear Admiral in charge of the starbase by the Cardassians!
