Of course not, in FASA they won their revolution thousands of years ago.

They secretly undermined and subverted the alliance of races that enslaved them, were helped their people form a Galactic power which dominated the Alpha quadrant for a few centuries.

This after tens of thousands of years of slavery.

Of course, the Orion empire is long gone, and the Syndicate has evolved (or devolved) away from their origins as a secret revolutionary cabal and become more focused on simply being a criminal group (rather than being criminal in order to bankroll a revolution).

So they are (in FASA Trek) seen as a bit unsavory and a bit romantic by Orions, they carry the legacy of honoured heroes of Orion history, and hey, they'll be there next time someone tries to enslave the entire Orion species, right?

So if this Syndicate is like the FASA Syndicate, they will be working to force the Federation to act as a modern version of the ancient alliance of slavers who subjugated their people, so that THEY can re-enact the part of the revolutionary cabal they pose as the continuation of.

And if the Syndicate wins against the Federation, they will be Paul Reveres and George Washingtons, because they will write the histroy.

Just like the rebels who betrayed their King a couple centuries back became heroes when the French, Dutch, Spanish and treasonous North American rebels defeated that King.



Ummm.

Did you ever read the FASA materials on the Orions? Because TBG Orions basically seem like a less racially diverse, more cyberpunk version of FASA Orions.

That's why I brought the FASA material up, because the QM writes them as if he's read the FASA material and tweaked it to fit in the simplified Trek universe of TBG (or at least, simpler to start with - the game canon is fast getting complicated as all heck).

All the things in your list of "why I like these Orions" except for the matriarchy is per FASA.

(I am guessing the matriarchal features are likely to be inspired by "Star Trek Continues", which did a brilliant episode on Orions.)

fasquardon

As far as I know Oneiros is operating from the outlines that @Iron Wolf and I developed based on ideas from @Amorous Intent .(Though her ideas also leaves the Old Empire with more big scale orbitals along the lines of Gundam sides). The Syndicate starting as like space.... space-x and then the Empress of Hypercorps is her idea too.

She drew it up mostly because she wanted a background for her Orion character that didn't have to rely on the sketchy details of canon or the ludicrously sexist/Misogynist/racists/bigoted picture that forms from the EU stuff.

So IIRC I think she curated what was left that wasn't offensive and then added the cyberpunk angle because that was cool and a "hat" no one in Trek uses.

Edit: this is also around the time @Iron Wolf went mad trying to figure out the Orion homeworld too. SHOW THEM THE CORKBOARD.
 
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This is open to some debate. Probably too off-topic to go into in a lot of detail, but destroying existing technology is bound to kill an awful lot of the population to start with (because they don't have any food) and in some ways rebuilding tech is harder the second time around. Easier in that you know it's possible; harder in that a lot of the easily accessible mineral ores have already been mined, fossils fuels close to the surface have been used up, etc.

To go with some very classic sci-fi, it reminds me of the situation in A Mote in God's Eye where the 'motie' aliens were noted as having repeatedly knocked themselves back to pre-modern civilization, and how this meant that they had to proceed directly from wood-powered steam engines to fusion reactors because all the fossil fuels and rare earth minerals had been mined long ago.
Right. Well, that's less true on a relatively mid-range colony planet (where not all easily exploited resources have been exploited), but it's a real thing.

What I'm getting at is that there are basically three levels of "knocked back by interstellar war/collapse." One is knocked back to the point where you still have spaceships. The second is knocked back to the point where you can't build spaceships, but you still have some kind of clearly recognizable industrial technology base that runs on machines instead of oxen or whatever. The third level is knocked straight back to Iron Age villages (or worse yet, Stone Age nomads).

In the first and second cases, there will probably be a pretty clear collective memory of what happened to your society and why. The details may get distorted or be selectively edited like any other historical record. But it's history, not mythology.

In the third case... all that's going to be left is mythology, or something indistinguishable from same (e.g. Amarki interactions with the Orion Empire).

Of course not, in FASA they won their revolution thousands of years ago.

They secretly undermined and subverted the alliance of races that enslaved them, were helped their people form a Galactic power which dominated the Alpha quadrant for a few centuries.

This after tens of thousands of years of slavery.

Of course, the Orion empire is long gone, and the Syndicate has evolved (or devolved) away from their origins as a secret revolutionary cabal and become more focused on simply being a criminal group (rather than being criminal in order to bankroll a revolution).

So they are (in FASA Trek) seen as a bit unsavory and a bit romantic by Orions, they carry the legacy of honoured heroes of Orion history, and hey, they'll be there next time someone tries to enslave the entire Orion species, right?

So if this Syndicate is like the FASA Syndicate, they will be working to force the Federation to act as a modern version of the ancient alliance of slavers who subjugated their people, so that THEY can re-enact the part of the revolutionary cabal they pose as the continuation of.
Put this way- the motives are there. But the actual history is quite different (Hur'q cast as the 'coalition of species that enslaved the Orions,' glory days of the Orion Empire being BEFORE that time and not after it, and so on). Consequently, I'd rather not try too hard to refer back to material that is questionably applicable to our situation, when we have a wealth of material that is.

I freely acknowledge that the FASA material (which, yes, I am sadly unfamiliar with) may be in some way ancestral to the version of the Orions we have in To Boldly Go. But given that there are very clear differences between the Orions we have and the Orions FASA has, I'd rather discuss the Orions we have on their own terms, without reference to FASA, if said references can be avoided.
 
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Of course not, in FASA they won their revolution thousands of years ago.

They secretly undermined and subverted the alliance of races that enslaved them, were helped their people form a Galactic power which dominated the Alpha quadrant for a few centuries.

This after tens of thousands of years of slavery.

Of course, the Orion empire is long gone, and the Syndicate has evolved (or devolved) away from their origins as a secret revolutionary cabal and become more focused on simply being a criminal group (rather than being criminal in order to bankroll a revolution).

So they are (in FASA Trek) seen as a bit unsavory and a bit romantic by Orions, they carry the legacy of honoured heroes of Orion history, and hey, they'll be there next time someone tries to enslave the entire Orion species, right?

So if this Syndicate is like the FASA Syndicate, they will be working to force the Federation to act as a modern version of the ancient alliance of slavers who subjugated their people, so that THEY can re-enact the part of the revolutionary cabal they pose as the continuation of.

And if the Syndicate wins against the Federation, they will be Paul Reveres and George Washingtons, because they will write the histroy.

Just like the rebels who betrayed their King a couple centuries back became heroes when the French, Dutch, Spanish and treasonous North American rebels defeated that King.



Ummm.

Did you ever read the FASA materials on the Orions? Because TBG Orions basically seem like a less racially diverse, more cyberpunk version of FASA Orions.

That's why I brought the FASA material up, because the QM writes them as if he's read the FASA material and tweaked it to fit in the simplified Trek universe of TBG (or at least, simpler to start with - the game canon is fast getting complicated as all heck).

All the things in your list of "why I like these Orions" except for the matriarchy is per FASA.

(I am guessing the matriarchal features are likely to be inspired by "Star Trek Continues", which did a brilliant episode on Orions.)

fasquardon

A big difference between FASA Orions and TBG Orions is that they have been mostly decoupled from the Rigel system. In TBG the Orion homeworld and Rigel are on opposite sides of the federation, and as per my Omakes the Orions colonized Rigel, but did not originate there.

Previous omakes have established that the Orion Empire was extant in the seocnd half of the first millennium AD, prior to that hasn't been detailed but it could well be that previous alpha quadrant powers did at one point enslave the Orions. Perhaps the Tkon or Iconians.

In TBG Rigel is a multi-species polity with a Chelonian (turtle guys) majority and significant Orion minority, that has been around for a long time prior to the Federation, but has mostly stuck to their little area of space. (Though i'm considering having a war between Yrilla and a resurgent Orion Supremacist Republic of Rigel before it transitions to a proper multi-ethnic democratic state.)
 
Actually, they are officially the Star Fleet Marine Corps.

I'm dead serious.

SFMC has a long history in the Beta-level canon, particularly Starfleet Battles but also including FASA and one or two other RPG takes. They are directly referenced, by name and all, as part of Operation Retrieval in The Undiscovered Country, and apparently the initial production of The Siege of AR-558 intended to do so as well but ultimately didn't. Some novels have suggested the branch was deestablished following peace with the Klingons.
SFMC are not mentioned in TUC. I can't even find references to them being mentioned in production art. They are entirely Beta canon.
 
SFMC are not mentioned in TUC. I can't even find references to them being mentioned in production art. They are entirely Beta canon.

As far as I know the idea of the Marines in TUC is based on inferring their existence from the presence of a Starfleet Character with the rank of colonel.

This guy:
West

Alternate interpretations are that he is a UESPA officer, and UESPA uses ground force style ranks, which imo would be pretty weird. SO I think the most likely reason is that he was a Marine, especially as he was involved in the planning of a covert operation to recover Kirk from a Klingon prison world.

The absence of Starfleet marines inTBG currently could be explained in several ways. They could have been disbanded after the Khitomer treat, being folded into Starfleet Security.
Or perhaps they still exist, it is just that they function as a semi-independant arm like Starfleet medical or Starfleet engineering, and we have never got into a situation where they might be used. Because Starfleet security handles most routine ground force tasks, and the marines are held in reserve for specific threats.
 
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West could be a MACO. It's also entirely possible starfleet has ground forces or space marine type units but there's no evidence there's an entity called Starfleet Marines is what I'm getting at
 
West could be a MACO. It's also entirely possible starfleet has ground forces or space marine type units but there's no evidence there's an entity called Starfleet Marines is what I'm getting at
Apparently some of the props in a TUC scene also have the words 'Marines' on it during the planning for retreiving Kirk.

Though finding an actual picture of the prop is difficult if it exists, so it might not be real.
 
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I have to apologize, I missed putting the [NAME] tag for Aeroknights. Whoever runs the tally will have to merge the plain votes into the task ones.
Don't worry you aren't the only one and when we are only voting on one thing it is pretty easy. It only gets annoying when there are multiple things being voted on.

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 1074 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

[1] Aeon Illuminate
[1] Joint System Operational Command - JSOC


——————————————————————————————————————————————
Task: Name

[19][NAME] VIGIL
[8][NAME] Aeroknights
[4][NAME] Aethercorps
[3][NAME] VIGILANCE
[2][NAME] Iron Eagles
[1][Name] JGOC
[1][Name] Peacekeepers
[1][NAME] "Knights of Judgement"
[1][NAME] Eat shit and die, Syndicate.

Total No. of Voters: 42
 
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I'm sorry, but VIGIL sounds so... bland... to me. It's like "this is our generic vaguely inspirational generic word we gave our bureaucratic organization, then decide to come up with a backronym for." It's not even a proper noun, it's just a generic "this category of thing" word.

I want a term that has some flavor to it. This organization is going to exist for a few years, hopefully rock, and then disband. I'd rather be talking about "yeah, remember how awesome the Aeroknights were" or how awesome the Aethercorps was, instead of "Hey, remember VIGIL?"

Sort of like, say, the Pony Express- which existed for a short time, then disbanded. But it has an unusual name that tells you immediately it was something special and unusual in history.
 
VIGIL would be an okay formal name.

Unfortunately, the formal name is JGOC, by Act of Council, as per the Safety and Unity Act of 2312.
 
Pay closer attention the Operation Retrieve okudagrams during the briefing.

Apparently some of the props in a TUC scene also have the words 'Marines' on it during the planning for retreiving Kirk.

Though finding an actual picture of the prop is difficult if it exists, so it might not be real.
This is a misconception. I think it might be a common one because for some reason Wikipedia mentions it as true. Here's a screencap of the most relevant chart:
If the word Marine is on there, it is not legible. And the word Marine is not on there because here's a photo of the actual production prop [another source that doesn't link as well]:

Honestly I'd have to question how canon something is if you have to start looking at high resolution scans to find (non)-evidence for it :V

The other charts of retrieve do not have Marine anywhere on them. Not anything legible. The misconception seems to come from this picture, which is fan content:
Which vaguely has "marine corps" on it, but at the same time does not match Production photos or even align with the blurry text on-screen. For some reason no one has gotten around to fixing the wikipedia page with the erroneous information.

EDIT: I mean though feel free to comb the charts for marine, maybe I'm missing it somewhere.
 
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I'm sorry, but VIGIL sounds so... bland... to me. It's like "this is our generic vaguely inspirational generic word we gave our bureaucratic organization, then decide to come up with a backronym for." It's not even a proper noun, it's just a generic "this category of thing" word.

I want a term that has some flavor to it. This organization is going to exist for a few years, hopefully rock, and then disband. I'd rather be talking about "yeah, remember how awesome the Aeroknights were" or how awesome the Aethercorps was, instead of "Hey, remember VIGIL?"

Would you consider coming over to "Aeroknights"? It adds just a little more of that Amarki flavor compared to Aethercorps, IMO.

It's an '80s cartoon, like Centurions or something.

Is... is that good or bad? :???:
 
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