[x] "well if we don't let the Amarki do something there going to do something on there own. What we need to do is give them something they can do that doesn't do more harm than good. If we play up how the syndicate is trying to get them to overreact we might be able to convince them to moderate their response. Hopefully we can get them to settle for providing troops to supplement anti syndicate operations, we cannot allow them to put ships in orbit right now. Right now they are angry, we need to get them to focus that anger in a way that won't make the situation worse.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
Exactly! The Union is already heroically fighting the Syndicate. Maybe the Amarki would like to help?
The key issue here is that the Amarki are inevitably going to react, and we can't prevent that without betraying them. At the same time can't allow the Syndicate to frame the Amarki's reaction to this as a foreign invasion, or the Union will either collapse or defect. That means we need to make sure the reaction happens not just with the Union's blessing (which could easily be ascribed to coercion) but under the Union's banner.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
I think that the optics of this plan will still rally Orion fear of the Amarki. Their government will cooperate with us, but we're more worried about a coup with popular support. The Amarki deploy with the Union's support and they become a government that allowed foreign military onto orion soil.
Furthermore, this still isn't a war. This is history's bloodiest policing action, but fundamentally it is still a policing action and treating this like a war will only make things worse.
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
And on that day, Linderley died of a brain hemorrhage.
[X] Briefvoice
- Location
- Germany
[X] Briefvoice
Was...was that an STO joke?
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
I like that one. Especially the part about making the chain of events public. It's not something I had previously considered, and I must admit I think the idea has potential. We also absolutely need to get the Union Orions and Amarki talking. Though I think the Amarki also need and deserve some additional tangible acts of solidarity.
Since my own plan doesn't seem to be gaining any votes: [X] briefvoice
I don't think the Amarki will still agree with that. Furthermore, I don't think they will react very well to us making light of things (in their eyes) by telling them that it's "still a policing action", which is why I prefer saying it's a war while also making it clear that it must remain a war against the Syndicate only.
Either way, it's going to be a precarious balancing act.
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Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
[X] briefvoice
We should probably also start getting the Federation onto a war footing if we haven't already.
We should probably also start getting the Federation onto a war footing if we haven't already.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
To be clear, I am not proposing asking the Union to grant permission for us to deploy foreign military on their soil. The Syndicate could easily sell that as us having coerced the Union government.
I am proposing offering the Union to subordinate foreign military units to their command, to deploy as they see fit. The Syndicate will of course still try to sell that as us having coerced the Union government, but if it's visibly the Union who are in charge they should find it much harder to do so.
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- Location
- Patriarchova
How the fuck did they get a photorp into the courthouse?
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I like this plan. Can we broker some sort of agreement that sees Amarkian Gendarmes and Amarkian Home Fleet units added to the Anti-Syndicate task force, both under Starfleet and the Union government? It would give the Amarkians an outlet for their anger, and it would wrap up the Syndicate faster, reducing our exposure to more attacks like this.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Indeed. You might even call this a "War on Terror."
That would imply that Terror is an actual threat.
This is more of an... extended police action.
Centred on, but with a WMD that could easily mean "centered on the courthouse steps" and still have the same effect.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] briefvoice
The way I phrased my vote like I did is that I feel like those details are too deep in the weeds. The Amarki government and the Orion government each know what they can sell to their respective populaces. If they actually talk with each other directly, I'm sure they can come up with some sort of face-saving way to allow the Amarki forces bloody vengeance on the Syndicate without making it seem like the Union has been rolled over. Whether it be subordinate military forces, tit-for-tat in orbit, or ground forces, they'll figure it out on their own.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
- Location
- North American Plaguelands
- Pronouns
- She/Her
What is this I don't even?!? The Syndicate just lit off a nuke-equivalent on a non-military target on a homeworld. There are some crimes so heinous that protecting the perps by means outside the court system constitutes an act of war. Antimatter weapons on non-military targets? That's one of them.
If the Union actually were to go and join the Cardassians, thus de facto declaring their willingness to throw away their independence to defend the people who did this, and functionally endorsing it, I can't see any appropriate response other that "Declaration of War acknowledged".
I am not going to vote because my personal sentiment on the appropriate response to the Cardassian offer is hawkish by Amarki standards - something along of "Do you really, really think declaring war on a superior power who has you completely enveloped is a good idea? Do that and the Orion Union rapidly stops being a thing as we burn your military and government."
If the Union actually were to go and join the Cardassians, thus de facto declaring their willingness to throw away their independence to defend the people who did this, and functionally endorsing it, I can't see any appropriate response other that "Declaration of War acknowledged".
I am not going to vote because my personal sentiment on the appropriate response to the Cardassian offer is hawkish by Amarki standards - something along of "Do you really, really think declaring war on a superior power who has you completely enveloped is a good idea? Do that and the Orion Union rapidly stops being a thing as we burn your military and government."
- Location
- United States
[X] briefvoice
well, at least starfleet intel caught the cardassian transmission. fuck this hurts.
well, at least starfleet intel caught the cardassian transmission. fuck this hurts.
The key difference is that the Orion government has no ties to the attack and is indeed fighting against the group responsible for it as we speak. This would be more like France declaring war on Belgium in the wake of the Paris attacks because the bombers came from it. Invading Orion (an allied territory at the very least and one where we have Federation assets currently present, cooperating with Orion forces) space should violate pretty much every intergalactic agreement/understanding there is.
Even the US did ask Pakistan before it commenced its drone programme there...
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[X]Write In
Ten years ago, the Orion Union had barely heard of the Armakians. Ten years ago, the Orion Syndicate was a mosquito buzzing in our collective ears. What a difference ten years makes, doesn't it? And the initial event that made us stand up and take notice of the Syndicate, what was it? The bombing of the Armakian ratification, though they weren't the only ones with a finger in that one. But they were putting the expansionists on notice, even though we didn't read the writing on the wall. 'This is our turf, and we will cut you.' We closed in around them, enveloped the Union and the syndicate together in a sea of blue, not completely-but politically. This has to gall them. It has to be stiffling for the Orions who dreamed of re-establishing their empire, to the Orions who thought that they could stand toe-to-toe with the Federation. But most of all, it stifles the Syndicate, who have nowhere to go but the Federation to preform their criminal acts. We ate and drank deeply in the oughts, and now we feel the galactic indigestion that comes of our own actions. They want us to vomit them back out, to recoil or lash out, to do something, anything, that they can exploit.
If the Armakians want into the Orion Union, they should ask, hat in hand, with greatest humility, to help the Union's own operations. They have every right to request involvement-and they can make the Orions know about how they feel in print and broadcast, to win public support and turn hands against the Syndicate. How many people in the Orion Union are willing to support terrorist attacks on foreign governments, especially when the results of said attacks are being advertised? They can use that time-redirect their intelligence services, plan police actions, coordinate with our own taskforce, increase their chance of success so they don't run in half-cocked and get us all into a shooting war. They need to remember that the Orion Syndicate's greatest victims, the ones who have suffered the most, are the Orion people themselves. Orion daughters and sons sold into slavery, Orion children sick and ransomed their treatment in exchange for their families cooperation, Orion elders threatend with the extermination of their entire families should they think of turning on the Syndicate for this atrocity. The Armakians should appreciate their own code of chivalry enough to stretch out a helping hand to fellow victims and people who are trying to do the right thing. The Orions have a tradition of hiring mercenaries-this would probably count, and it's probably a bargain-basement price for a Riala right now if the work involves hunting the Syndicate.
I don't know if that will be acceptable to them, but it feels like a compromise to me-nobody's happy, but everyone can live with it. As for our intelligence and what to do about it, well, if we tread carefully enough, the Orions will realize they would be no better off with Cardassia as patrons than they are currently-legitimate trade with the Federation would probably cease overnight and we could blockade them at our leisure. Their corporations wouldn't like that at all. A coup would require the help of a lot of the military and the intelligence services, to avoid it turning into a outright civil war or a counter-coup. If we are careful, we can avoid making that many Orions willing to back such a deal.
Ten years ago, the Orion Union had barely heard of the Armakians. Ten years ago, the Orion Syndicate was a mosquito buzzing in our collective ears. What a difference ten years makes, doesn't it? And the initial event that made us stand up and take notice of the Syndicate, what was it? The bombing of the Armakian ratification, though they weren't the only ones with a finger in that one. But they were putting the expansionists on notice, even though we didn't read the writing on the wall. 'This is our turf, and we will cut you.' We closed in around them, enveloped the Union and the syndicate together in a sea of blue, not completely-but politically. This has to gall them. It has to be stiffling for the Orions who dreamed of re-establishing their empire, to the Orions who thought that they could stand toe-to-toe with the Federation. But most of all, it stifles the Syndicate, who have nowhere to go but the Federation to preform their criminal acts. We ate and drank deeply in the oughts, and now we feel the galactic indigestion that comes of our own actions. They want us to vomit them back out, to recoil or lash out, to do something, anything, that they can exploit.
If the Armakians want into the Orion Union, they should ask, hat in hand, with greatest humility, to help the Union's own operations. They have every right to request involvement-and they can make the Orions know about how they feel in print and broadcast, to win public support and turn hands against the Syndicate. How many people in the Orion Union are willing to support terrorist attacks on foreign governments, especially when the results of said attacks are being advertised? They can use that time-redirect their intelligence services, plan police actions, coordinate with our own taskforce, increase their chance of success so they don't run in half-cocked and get us all into a shooting war. They need to remember that the Orion Syndicate's greatest victims, the ones who have suffered the most, are the Orion people themselves. Orion daughters and sons sold into slavery, Orion children sick and ransomed their treatment in exchange for their families cooperation, Orion elders threatend with the extermination of their entire families should they think of turning on the Syndicate for this atrocity. The Armakians should appreciate their own code of chivalry enough to stretch out a helping hand to fellow victims and people who are trying to do the right thing. The Orions have a tradition of hiring mercenaries-this would probably count, and it's probably a bargain-basement price for a Riala right now if the work involves hunting the Syndicate.
I don't know if that will be acceptable to them, but it feels like a compromise to me-nobody's happy, but everyone can live with it. As for our intelligence and what to do about it, well, if we tread carefully enough, the Orions will realize they would be no better off with Cardassia as patrons than they are currently-legitimate trade with the Federation would probably cease overnight and we could blockade them at our leisure. Their corporations wouldn't like that at all. A coup would require the help of a lot of the military and the intelligence services, to avoid it turning into a outright civil war or a counter-coup. If we are careful, we can avoid making that many Orions willing to back such a deal.