Starting a war with the Cardassians with the whole Orion Union defecting (and us easily being portrayed as the aggressor) seems like one of the worst possible ways to do such a thing. And The Amarkians are capable of reason so there should be some room to negotiate.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
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Starting a war with the Cardassians with the whole Orion Union defecting (and us easily being portrayed as the aggressor) seems like one of the worst possible ways to do such a thing. And The Amarkians are capable of reason so there should be some room to negotiate.
Katsuragi
The 1%
[JK] Missive to the union: "Dear Union: How are you? We at the Federation are fine. We Just thought we'd share some intelligence that we've gathered. It would seem that while the Cardassians have a fairly impressive fleet, we'd ultimately be triumphant over them. So need to worry, they're no threat to you. Should the worse come to pass and you find yourself under their boots, we'll sever the leg and bloody their nose for the effort, regardless of cost to use. We are dear friends, after all. And once we're done with that, we'll of course help our friend cut out and Cardassian corruption that's crept up in their government and worlds, regardless of the level of leaching and ordinance required. The collateral fallout might be unpleasant for you, and we're deeply sorry for that. But again, we're dear friends. We wouldn't stand by and allow you to suffer from Cardassian rot."
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
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- He/Him/His
[X] Declare a State of Emergency. Don't be too hasty to declare war, but ready the fleet to go at a moment's notice.
A state of emergency puts all the power in Sousa's hands. You think that's the kind of option the President is looking for? "You should give up and let me manage this."
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
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- He/Him
Except for that, you know, WMD deployed on their soil.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[ ] "...the greatest challenge laying before us is to do what must be done without undoing the dream of the Federation. Admiral Ramirez said that in his first speech to the Council during the Four Year War, and it's never been more applicable. Madam President, this is your Axanar. The Amarki are angry, it falls to you to shape that anger into a fury that is as ice in composition and character. They are a martial people, and victory in this case demands the fortitude to be patient in the face of personal tragedy. Remind them that their enemies want them to be brash and reactionary, and so they must be cold, and calculating. An invasion of Orion space is the Syndicate's desired goal for this attack, so the Amarki must instead pay them the greatest insult an enemy can suffer. To be ignored."
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I like this plan a lot. We'd have to thread a lot of needles to get it to satisfy Amarkian desire for vengeance and assuage Orion fear of occupation, but that's why we picked Admiral Sousa.
Finagle007
[Verified Great Old One]
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It's that or war at this point. They've crossed the line.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
*sigh* Just when we were about to open diplomacy with the Sydraxians. If we could just manage to delay this war until that's done, it would mean one less front to worry about.
I'm also not convinced the pro-Cardassian Orion opposition will see a difference between Amarki ships in Orion space and Amarki boots on Orion planets....
I'm also not convinced the pro-Cardassian Orion opposition will see a difference between Amarki ships in Orion space and Amarki boots on Orion planets....
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That's not how it works with terrorists, which is what the Syndicate has become. You aren't fighting another nation state, proportional response doesn't apply as a sound policy.
[X] "...the greatest challenge laying before us is to do what must be done without undoing the dream of the Federation. Admiral Ramirez said that in his first speech to the Council during the Four Year War, and it's never been more applicable. Madam President, this is your Axanar. The Amarki are angry, it falls to you to shape that anger into a fury that is as ice in composition and character. They are a martial people, and victory in this case demands the fortitude to be patient in the face of personal tragedy. Remind them that their enemies want them to be brash and reactionary, and so they must be cold, and calculating. An invasion of Orion space is the Syndicate's desired goal for this attack, so the Amarki must instead pay them the greatest insult an enemy can suffer. To be ignored."
- Location
- madison
[x] "well if we don't let the Amarki do something there going to do something on there own. What we need to do is give them something they can do that doesn't do more harm than good. If we play up how the syndicate is trying to get them to overreact we might be able to convince them to moderate their response. Hopefully we can get them to settle for providing troops to supplement anti syndicate operations, we cannot allow them to put ships in orbit right now. Right now they are angry, we need to get them to focus that anger in a way that won't make the situation worse.
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- Location
- madison
it's not a bad idea, but asking the amarki not to do anything after an attack like that is too likely to backfire. We need to give them some productive way to hit the syndicate.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
The way this discussion among the Councillors went, I am know reasonably sure about what should be our course of action. Here's what I propose we suggest to the president.
[x] Plan United We Stand
Basically, treat the Union as an allied - not subservient - state in our mutual war against the Syndicate. But also make it clear that it is, indeed, a war, and treat it as such to satisfy the Amarki.
[x] Plan United We Stand
Our problem here is that we have two objectives that absolutely must be achieved, and which are seemingly at odds. But, and this is key, only seemingly.
Firstly, the Syndicate has committed an act of war and an atrocity against Amarkia in particular and against the Federation in general. We cannot allow this to go unpunished, or we risk losing the Amarki - worst case the Federation itself might fall apart. We must respond with force.
Secondly, the Orion Union is one of our closest affiliates. We cannot simply invade them and trample all over them, or we will almost certainly lose the Union and furthermore we implicitly tell all our other affiliates that we consider them little better than vassals - at which point they might as well take their chances with the Cardassians. We must respect Orion sovereignty.
The solution is to make a clear distinction between the Syndicate and the Union, and effectively strike at the former while also visibly supporting the latter. In other words:
Firstly, the Syndicate has committed an act of war and an atrocity against Amarkia in particular and against the Federation in general. We cannot allow this to go unpunished, or we risk losing the Amarki - worst case the Federation itself might fall apart. We must respond with force.
Secondly, the Orion Union is one of our closest affiliates. We cannot simply invade them and trample all over them, or we will almost certainly lose the Union and furthermore we implicitly tell all our other affiliates that we consider them little better than vassals - at which point they might as well take their chances with the Cardassians. We must respect Orion sovereignty.
The solution is to make a clear distinction between the Syndicate and the Union, and effectively strike at the former while also visibly supporting the latter. In other words:
- Formally recognize the fact that this atrocity against the Amarki was indeed an attack on the entire Federation. Make it official that there is a state of war between the Federation and the Syndicate. This will hopefully assure the Amarki that the Federation does indeed stand with them in their hour of need.
- In the very same declaration, refer to the Orion Union as our closest ally in the fight against the Syndicate. Declare that the Federation will assist the Union in any way it can in the latter's efforts to expunge the Syndicate. Said assistance will take the form of massive military support by both Starfleet and the militaries of any willing members. Make it clear that we respect the Union's sovereignty and that we're prepared to subordinate any Federation military assets in Union space to Union command.
- Get the Amarki and the Union talking to each other and try to work out something that will satisfy both - we need to make those two think of each other as comrades in arms in the fight against the Syndicate. The Amarki need to be convinced to let the Union have at least nominal command of Amarki military assets in Union space. The Union needs to be convinced to let the Amarki have their pound of Syndicalist flesh (not that that should be difficult, the Union has hardly been softballing things in the fight against the Syndicate).
Basically, treat the Union as an allied - not subservient - state in our mutual war against the Syndicate. But also make it clear that it is, indeed, a war, and treat it as such to satisfy the Amarki.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Cardassia supporting them like this, though, would mean that apply proportional response to Cardassia reasonable, is it not?
Particularly given all the events over the past few years. I still don't quite want to think about what they had planned with the Kadak-Tor.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
I think the Cardassian proposal to the Union is best ignored for now.
We pretend we don't know what the Cardassians did, and then we simply act in such a manner as to make it clear that the Union has much better options than accepting Cardassian "aid".
Derek58
Rocket Punch is Best Punch
- Location
- Getter Valhalla
[X] "...the greatest challenge laying before us is to do what must be done without undoing the dream of the Federation. Admiral Ramirez said that in his first speech to the Council during the Four Year War, and it's never been more applicable. Madam President, this is your Axanar. The Amarki are angry, it falls to you to shape that anger into a fury that is as ice in composition and character. They are a martial people, and victory in this case demands the fortitude to be patient in the face of personal tragedy. Remind them that their enemies want them to be brash and reactionary, and so they must be cold, and calculating. An invasion of Orion space is the Syndicate's desired goal for this attack, so the Amarki must instead pay them the greatest insult an enemy can suffer. To be ignored."
-[X]The syndicate isn't scared of Amarki over reaction, they're scared of Amarki measured reaction. If the Amarkians are the brutes they seem to believe them to be, then as soon as an Amarki warship enters Alukk space, they've won the initiative. If however, the Amarkians were to send their gendarmes to assist their union brothers in arms (either officially or as 'concerned consultants'), the way they assisted Star Fleet during the biophage crisis, then I know they will be instrumental in guiding us through this new crisis successfully.
-[X]If that is insufficient for the Amarki people, perhaps having their fleet work with Star Fleet to provide better border patrol will ameliorate them. Or perhaps a system mandatory anti-pheremone inoculations at every port of entry for everyone, regardless of whether they are coming from Orion space, to ensure that no thralls slip through into Amarkia proper.
-[X]The syndicate isn't scared of Amarki over reaction, they're scared of Amarki measured reaction. If the Amarkians are the brutes they seem to believe them to be, then as soon as an Amarki warship enters Alukk space, they've won the initiative. If however, the Amarkians were to send their gendarmes to assist their union brothers in arms (either officially or as 'concerned consultants'), the way they assisted Star Fleet during the biophage crisis, then I know they will be instrumental in guiding us through this new crisis successfully.
-[X]If that is insufficient for the Amarki people, perhaps having their fleet work with Star Fleet to provide better border patrol will ameliorate them. Or perhaps a system mandatory anti-pheremone inoculations at every port of entry for everyone, regardless of whether they are coming from Orion space, to ensure that no thralls slip through into Amarkia proper.
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- Location
- the Moon
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] "...the greatest challenge laying before us is to do what must be done without undoing the dream of the Federation. Admiral Ramirez said that in his first speech to the Council during the Four Year War, and it's never been more applicable. Madam President, this is your Axanar. The Amarki are angry, it falls to you to shape that anger into a fury that is as ice in composition and character. They are a martial people, and victory in this case demands the fortitude to be patient in the face of personal tragedy. Remind them that their enemies want them to be brash and reactionary, and so they must be cold, and calculating. An invasion of Orion space is the Syndicate's desired goal for this attack, so the Amarki must instead pay them the greatest insult an enemy can suffer. To be ignored."
-[X]The syndicate isn't scared of Amarki over reaction, they're scared of Amarki measured reaction. If the Amarkians are the brutes they seem to believe them to be, then as soon as an Amarki warship enters Alukk space, they've won the initiative. If however, the Amarkians were to send their gendarmes to assist their union brothers in arms (either officially or as 'concerned consultants'), the way they assisted Star Fleet during the biophage crisis, then I know they will be instrumental in guiding us through this new crisis successfully.
-[X]If that is insufficient for the Amarki people, perhaps having their fleet work with Star Fleet to provide better border patrol will ameliorate them. Or perhaps a system mandatory anti-pheremone inoculations at every port of entry for everyone, regardless of whether they are coming from Orion space, to ensure that no thralls slip through into Amarkia proper.
-[X]The syndicate isn't scared of Amarki over reaction, they're scared of Amarki measured reaction. If the Amarkians are the brutes they seem to believe them to be, then as soon as an Amarki warship enters Alukk space, they've won the initiative. If however, the Amarkians were to send their gendarmes to assist their union brothers in arms (either officially or as 'concerned consultants'), the way they assisted Star Fleet during the biophage crisis, then I know they will be instrumental in guiding us through this new crisis successfully.
-[X]If that is insufficient for the Amarki people, perhaps having their fleet work with Star Fleet to provide better border patrol will ameliorate them. Or perhaps a system mandatory anti-pheremone inoculations at every port of entry for everyone, regardless of whether they are coming from Orion space, to ensure that no thralls slip through into Amarkia proper.
So far all there is a highly unofficial proposal made by a party from the Orion Union to Cardassia...
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
I am 99% sure this will backfire horribly. Possibly even lead to the Amarki leaving the Federation.
Just imagine the US reaction if NATO had refused their request to activate article 5 of the NATO treaties and told them to ignore 9/11.
This is much, much larger than 9/11. And the Amarki are at least as angry right now. Justifiably so.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I don't think asking Amarkia to not go into Orion space is realistic; Perhaps, instead, one might instead have Amarkia fleets along with Federation ones cordon Orion space, and then hunt and destroy Syndicate ships in a curfew over the entire Orion Union? Like all ships have to be inspected or something.
EDIT: Made a minor edit in bold per @Simon_Jester's request.
EDIT2: Further edited at Simon_Jester's suggestion, but I believe it's still pretty close to the original vote. Changes in bold.
Okay, let me take a shot at this....
[X] Madame President, let us consider three dimensions here. The political, the strategic, and the moral.
-[X] The political: Amarkia must act and be seen to act, the current government of the Orion Union must not fall, and the actions of terrorists must not be allowed to magnificently succeed in producing precisely the result they want. The strategic: the Federation has been making in-roads against Cardassian-affiliated species everywhere recently. We have achieved successful diplomacy with the Dawiar, the Gretarians, the Yrillians. They are losing the diplomatic war and they desperately need to convert this into a type of war they can win, without being seen as the aggressors. The moral: The people of Amarkia deserve justice, and it must be directed against the actual perpetrators and not misdirected against Orion Union forces.
-[X] The Federation should commit to doing everything in its power to end this crisis and defeat the Syndicate. The Council is going to need to solve the short-term crisis before us by promising action to the Amarki, restraint to the Orions, and somehow managing to deliver on both promises. But that leaves the long term problem. The Amarki are going to keep pushing for more action, because they have suffered more harm at Syndicate hands than any other non-Orions. The Syndicate is going to keep provoking the Amarki, because they want an invasion of hostile foreigners to drive ordinary Orions into the Syndicate's camp. The Union is going to keep resisting Amarki wishes, because they have to maintain the perception of their sovereignty and power to stand up to outsiders. This is a three sided problem, and I believe it can be resolved only by direct communication between the Amarki and Orion Union governments. They must come a politically acceptable agreement about how to work together against the Syndicate, instead of working against each other. I can think of a few suggestions off the top of my head. Perhaps the Orion Union could send an aid caravan to Lironh, and accept the assistance of Amarkian vessels against the Syndicate in return. Perhaps the Amarkians can send in their gendarmes. I don't know; but trying to route everything through the Federation Council puts too many fingers in the pie. On top of our own efforts coming in from outside the region, we need to mediate a positive working relationship between the two species, to stop the Syndicate and present a unified front against Cardassian efforts to break the Federation up.
-[X] That brings us to the overall strategic situation, which I think can be resolved by being open about what is going on here. It may be time to expend some our intelligence assets in order to make the chain of events public. The Syndicate attacks, hoping to provoke a response that justifies a Cardassian-backed coup. It's simple enough that the public of all worlds can understand and terrible enough to shock into not playing along, especially in the wake of the Cardassian coup on Bajor.
-[X] As for the moral situation... I suppose we can count on the good Councillor Stesk to be our conscience there. As far as practical issues go, the most urgent thing to do is send aid and ships to help deal with the recovery and stabilize the situation on the ground. I've already sent orders to our available hospital and engineering ships to make best speed for the area. Starfleet stands ready to assist a strong civilian disaster relief mission, which is what I recommend. We need to make clear that while we want justice, support for the victims is just as important, and that we consider this a criminal act. "
EDIT2: Further edited at Simon_Jester's suggestion, but I believe it's still pretty close to the original vote. Changes in bold.
Okay, let me take a shot at this....
[X] Madame President, let us consider three dimensions here. The political, the strategic, and the moral.
-[X] The political: Amarkia must act and be seen to act, the current government of the Orion Union must not fall, and the actions of terrorists must not be allowed to magnificently succeed in producing precisely the result they want. The strategic: the Federation has been making in-roads against Cardassian-affiliated species everywhere recently. We have achieved successful diplomacy with the Dawiar, the Gretarians, the Yrillians. They are losing the diplomatic war and they desperately need to convert this into a type of war they can win, without being seen as the aggressors. The moral: The people of Amarkia deserve justice, and it must be directed against the actual perpetrators and not misdirected against Orion Union forces.
-[X] The Federation should commit to doing everything in its power to end this crisis and defeat the Syndicate. The Council is going to need to solve the short-term crisis before us by promising action to the Amarki, restraint to the Orions, and somehow managing to deliver on both promises. But that leaves the long term problem. The Amarki are going to keep pushing for more action, because they have suffered more harm at Syndicate hands than any other non-Orions. The Syndicate is going to keep provoking the Amarki, because they want an invasion of hostile foreigners to drive ordinary Orions into the Syndicate's camp. The Union is going to keep resisting Amarki wishes, because they have to maintain the perception of their sovereignty and power to stand up to outsiders. This is a three sided problem, and I believe it can be resolved only by direct communication between the Amarki and Orion Union governments. They must come a politically acceptable agreement about how to work together against the Syndicate, instead of working against each other. I can think of a few suggestions off the top of my head. Perhaps the Orion Union could send an aid caravan to Lironh, and accept the assistance of Amarkian vessels against the Syndicate in return. Perhaps the Amarkians can send in their gendarmes. I don't know; but trying to route everything through the Federation Council puts too many fingers in the pie. On top of our own efforts coming in from outside the region, we need to mediate a positive working relationship between the two species, to stop the Syndicate and present a unified front against Cardassian efforts to break the Federation up.
-[X] That brings us to the overall strategic situation, which I think can be resolved by being open about what is going on here. It may be time to expend some our intelligence assets in order to make the chain of events public. The Syndicate attacks, hoping to provoke a response that justifies a Cardassian-backed coup. It's simple enough that the public of all worlds can understand and terrible enough to shock into not playing along, especially in the wake of the Cardassian coup on Bajor.
-[X] As for the moral situation... I suppose we can count on the good Councillor Stesk to be our conscience there. As far as practical issues go, the most urgent thing to do is send aid and ships to help deal with the recovery and stabilize the situation on the ground. I've already sent orders to our available hospital and engineering ships to make best speed for the area. Starfleet stands ready to assist a strong civilian disaster relief mission, which is what I recommend. We need to make clear that while we want justice, support for the victims is just as important, and that we consider this a criminal act. "
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- Location
- The Middle of the Howling Wilderness
You know, it strikes me that we could probably turn the Orion campaign on Duaba into a pretty powerful political tool to help placate the Amarki. Duaba is the most explicitly martial part of the anti-syndicate campaign, and it's characterized by fierce fighting and high casualties on both sides. It could serve as a potent reminder to the Amarki that the Orions are already making tremendous sacrifices to fight the Syndicate, and in a medium that is intimately familiar to Amarki culture.