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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Briefvoice said:
[X][SBZ] Commodore Michel Thuir

We need a man with Thuir's unique blend of nerve and caution on the Sydraxian border zone. He can keep things from getting too hot for as long as possible, and if it does blow up he won't hesitate to do what is necessary. The Sydraxian Border Zone is considered a combat command and (along with the Syndicate operations) the nearest thing we have to a war right now. So you have to ask, which of these candidates should be in charge of a war? I pick Thuir.
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I would be willing to consider Thuir but for the fact that he's the tree-killer. Do you want to torpedo negotiations with the Sydraxians? Thuir has low diplomacy right when it looks like we might finally resolve this with some hail-marry diplomacy work courtesy of the Enterprise. And he'll be facing several prospective affiliates.

Now I don't know how his diplomacy will or will not affect things, but I don't want to take that risk when other opportunities present themselves.
 
Briefvoice said:
but probably never be promoted to Rear Admiral either.
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OneirosTheWriter said:
Commodore Gorac Crogan

[...]A long-serving Tellarite officer with significant experience already acquired in planet-side billets. In order to be satisfied that they are ready for a Rear Admiral billet, however, it would be best to see them take to space once more.
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I know they're not the same person but there's zero indication -- the opposite in fact -- that a sector command does not lead to a Rear Admiral position. Could you explain your reasoning?
 
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Vehrec said:
I would be willing to consider Thuir but for the fact that he's the tree-killer. Do you want to torpedo negotiations with the Sydraxians? Thuir has low diplomacy right when it looks like we might finally resolve this with some hail-marry diplomacy work courtesy of the Enterprise. And he'll be facing several prospective affiliates.
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He's also one of the few officers who had peaceful interaction with the Sydraxians before the Incident went down and might well have a better insight to them than most. I'm not convinced that Thuir personally is a figure of hatred to the Sydraxians. I think Thuir's experience with the Sydraxians cuts both ways. But hey, I get why people vote differently. I just don't think I'm crazy to vote for Thuir.

Iron Wolf said:
I know they're not the same person but there's zero indication -- the opposite in fact -- a sector command doesn't put you on track for Rear Admiral?
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It's not the sector command that keeps him off the rear admiral track, but the fact that his time as a captain ended in disaster and he'll never really have another chance as captain of a ship to show off his personal chops in that level of command. I figure when it comes to Rear Admirals you look at their entire career before promoting them.

And @Iron Wolf maybe you meant it as a joke, but I found the "puzzlement" imagery like I said something crazy kind of insulting and disrespectful, and I would appreciate it if you would edit it back out. Thanks.
 
Briefvoice said:
He's also one of the few officers who had peaceful interaction with the Sydraxians before the Incident went down and might well have a better insight to them than most. I'm not convinced that Thuir personally is a figure of hatred to the Sydraxians. I think Thuir's experience with the Sydraxians cuts both ways. But hey, I get why people vote differently. I just don't think I'm crazy to vote for Thuir.
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They hated him enough to repeatedly chase and ambush his ship. I think you're absolutely nuts.
 
Briefvoice said:
Yep. Those voting for him, do remember that's what you're ensuring. Sure he's being promoted, but it's kicking him upstairs and to a position where he'll never command a ship again, but probably never be promoted to Rear Admiral either.
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If Mbeki gets command of the SBZ that's saying we trust the man with a potential hot warzone where there is active skirmishing already ongoing. That's pretty much as far from being kicked upstairs so you don't make a mess as possible. We're giving Mbeki a hugely responsible position. He can give operational commands to fighting units on the Federation's only currently active battlefront.

The puzzled imagery is entirely appropriate. This is crazy talk.
 
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[X][FERASA] Captain Tomas Meyer
[X][SBZ] Commodore Gorac Crogan

Exciting new officers to watch.

I want Mbeki back on a ship.
 
Night said:
If Mbeki gets command of the SBZ that's saying we trust the man with a potential hot warzone where there is active skirmishing already ongoing. That's pretty much as far from being kicked upstairs so you don't make a mess as possible. We're giving Mbeki a hugely responsible position. He can give operational commands to fighting units on the Federation's only currently active battlefront.

The puzzled imagery is entirely appropriate. This is crazy talk.
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Yeah. I would say the SBZ is trumped in importance only by the Anti-Syndicate Taskforce and the GBZ once it's established. We're talking about the man or woman who could end commanding an entire war. Or who could make peace possible and bring two new affiliates into the Federation.
 
Briefvoice said:
It's not the sector command that keeps him off the rear admiral track, but the fact that his time as a captain ended in disaster and he'll never really have another chance as captain of a ship to show off his personal chops in that level of command. I figure when it comes to Rear Admirals you look at their entire career before promoting them.
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I think Mbeki's entire career is what will save him in the inquiry, and what will be looked at holistically when they decide if or if not to promote him to RA later on. I don't think he needs to particularly prove himself in that regard, since he got pretty badly ambushed and still managed to save almost his entire crew. I don't think he needs more Captain experience to really prove himself. I don't think you can make that call either, hence why I think you shouldn't try to manipulate voters with a simple, seemingly-authoritative statement like that.

There's other, better reasons not to put Mbeki in the SBZ, or put others in instead of him.

And @Iron Wolf maybe you meant it as a joke, but I found the "puzzlement" imagery like I said something crazy kind of insulting and disrespectful, and I would appreciate it if you would edit it back out. Thanks.
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It's a jokey meme but sure. It was just very baffling to see how a posting to a Sector command would lead to an RA position for one candidate and then to see you claiming putting Mbeki there would lead to him not getting one.
 
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Warning: Dial it back
  • Staff Post
    • dial it back No, we are not going to accuse our fellow posters of being crazy. Feel free to accuse them of being *wrong* but not of being crazy.

    Unless I confirm that you're crazy.

    Failure to do otherwise will result in T'Lorel Manoeuvres being performed on people's infraction points.
     
  • Staff Post
    • In any case I wouldn't say it's crazy to put Thuir in the SBZ but it's certainly like, extremely provocative. If you're considering voting for that/have voted for that and at all voted for the option previously asking for three years of prep from the president -- those two positions are at odds. Thuir in the SBZ would almost certainly tip us closer to war with them and the Cardassians.

    If that's what you want (looking at you @Leila Hann ;) ) then sure, go for it. But it might mean fighting them before we have time to really hit our stride shipbuilding-wise.
     
    I wish we had T'Lorel available for the SBZ. She conquered the Sydraxians once, she can do it again. :V

    OneirosTheWriter said:
    "Captains!" greets Leaniss. She pounds a fist against her chest and extends it out in a martial salute. "We welcome you back, Captain ka'Sharren! Captain Eaton, T'Lorel, we are proud to have you aboard! The celebrations of your glorious conquest of the Sydraxite Benevolence for the Terran Empire will take place in the observation lounge on Deck 1."
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    But seriously. She made first contact with them, conducted diplomatic missions on their behalf, and had good things sung about her to them. She's also very good at blowing things up when she absolutely has to.

    e: Man, rereading the logs, the Sydraxians almost killed Thuir during that mission disaster.
     
    UberJJK said:
    That's just it; they chased the Mirchat. As far as I remember that was the symbol of their hatred not Thuir himself.
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    Utter speculation. Besides, all that has to be said is "Former Captain of the Miracht" (which is a matter of the public record) and the hatred will likely apply. If they don't draw that connection (and they will), then the Cardassians will point it out, and they will also hammer it home as much as they can.

    Reading what information we have, personal deeds do matter to the Sydraxians. It's personal deeds they sing about. Hating the ship is rather impersonal. Nothing I have read about their culture indicates that they would dissociate this at all.

    I feel the evidence is strongly against the claim that Thuir would not be provocative. It's not a sensible idea.

    e: Hell, T'Lorel had to answer a one on one challenge (of song) to even speak to them. No, the idea that they hate the ship and not also her captain is not credible.
     
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    UberJJK said:
    That's just it; they chased the Mirchat. As far as I remember that was the symbol of their hatred not Thuir himself.
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    Thuir left the surface of that planet so badly injured that his XO had to command the Miracht's escape. They very much deliberately tried to kill the man, and did so before they tried to kill his ship.
     
    Let's see. Overall I'd say the requirements are:
    - Ferasa sector: low/medium rule-abiding to bypass the corruption in Orion bureaucracy, medium/high diplomacy and politics to compensate - Uhura the ASTF commander is a good example here (and she has low rule-abiding)
    - SBZ: high nerve and medium/high aggression to prepare for conflict, medium/high diplomacy is nice bonus due to Yrillians and Gretarians

    Other concerns:
    - I'd really like to give Thraan th'Marlaas a space command since he's been asking for one since 2306, but this is a minor concern.
    - I want to give Mbeki another shot at captaincy so would prefer not to promote him to commodore yet.
    - Unless we're aiming to provoke the Sydraxians, Thuir isn't a safe choice for SBZ command. Which is a pity, because his attributes and experience would've been ideal for SBZ command.

    Gorac Crogan's high diplomacy and politics and medium other attributes make him pretty ideal for Ferasa sector command.

    SBZ command decision is more difficult. With Mbeki and Thuir out of the running, there are no high nerve candidates. I think th'Marlaas is the best choice out of the rest, although I'm not sure what the impact of low rule-abiding would be in SBZ - could be good or bad.

    [X][FERASA] Commodore Gorac Crogan
    [X][SBZ] Commodore Thraan th'Marlaas
     
    I'd strongly suggest against Thraan for the SBZ, because low rules-abiding in this case probably also means "low rules-of-engagement abiding" and we are still trying to avoid a war. Cowboying up isn't gonna help that.
     
    [X][FERASA] Commodore Gorac Crogan
    [X][SBZ] Captain Langa Mbeki
     
    Guys I've been thinking of what our next Vice Admiral position should be and came up with the following:

    Commander, Super Sector/OverSector-Alpha (please come up with a better name)

    Headquarters: Amarkia (most likely)

    Jurisdiction:
    Gabriel Expanse Border Zone
    Syndraxian Border Zone
    Cardassian Border Zone
    Apinae Sector
    Amarkia Sector
    Ferasa Sector (drop?)

    Role:
    • Directly oversee all Sectors and Border Zones directly bordering the Cardassian Union and its allies.
    • Serve as an intermediary between the the subordinate commands and the Chief of Starfleet Operations
    • Coordinate with affiliate and member world fleets
    • Assume overall theater command in case of hostilities with the Cardassian Union
    Basically from what I can see the Federation has grown to the point that it is starting to need another layer of management in between its field commands and overall strategic command. It's said that humans can only effectively manage 3-5 subordinates. I'm going to guess that that's around the norm with the Tellarites preferring 2-4 while Vulcans can max up to 6, maybe 7. With there being 11, soon to be 13 Sector Commands I think that the Chief of Starfleet Operations needs another layer of management lest they become overwhelmed or see a large decrease in efficiency.

    I think that if we were do so, that one of the newly created entities would consolidate all the sectors bordering the Cardassian Union and its affiliates. This would not only ensure that the Federation would have someone coordinating policy at the Theater level but in addition it would allow for Starfleet to be more responsive. I'd like to go out on a limb and say that coordinating the fleets from Earth during the Kadak-Tor Crisis was probably harder that it should be given Earth's distance to the front lines.

    In case of war, the holder of this position would serve as the "Supreme Allied Commander" and take command of all Starfleet, Member World and Affiliate Assets on the Cardassian Front. Starfleet Command would retain overall Strategic Command, but the holder and their staff would have Operational Command. After all, micromanagement from a distant HQ is the last thing anyone wants.

    The reason why this would be a Vice Admiral's billet would be to establish seniority over the various Sector Commanders and Starbase Commanders, but Member and Affiliate forces as well. This would establish a firm chain of command and resolve any questions of seniority especially in a crisis.

    As for the location Amarkia would be ideal. It's close enough to the border that they can stay in relatively close contact with their subordinate commands but far enough away that if/when the shooting starts they won't be taken out by a surprise decapitation attack. Furthermore, Amarkia is relatively well defended and is home to a large amount of infrastructure.

    Thoughts?
     
    [X][FERASA] Captain Tomas Meyer
    [X][SBZ] Commodore Gorac Crogan

    Wait, if it was the Miracht that jeapordized things with the Syndraxians (with the Cardassians pushing it over), then.. the ship is really cursed, isn't it?
     
    Not ready to vote yet, but...

    @lbmaian, Mbeki's been a captain of a starship since 2306. He's had a good run. Promoting him wouldn't be in any way harming him or doing him an injustice.
     
    Night said:
    I'd strongly suggest against Thraan for the SBZ, because low rules-abiding in this case probably also means "low rules-of-engagement abiding" and we are still trying to avoid a war. Cowboying up isn't gonna help that.
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    Low rule-abiding doesn't necessarily mean "cowboying up", especially since we're talking about a sector commander, not a captain potentially ignoring ROEs in the field. As I understand it, It's the commander's proclivity to trust his judgement over static rules. So it's more of a "can we trust this man's judgement" situation, and I'm not sure since we don't have much of a history with th'Marlaas other than being a veteran of the Biophage crisis and former captain of the Polaris plus desk jobs. I will note that higher rule abidance might be problematic when dealing with Yrillians.

    Overall, I'm just not sure what to think about rule abidance.

    Now if the war does go hot, th'Marlaas's other attributes will be helpful, and the rule-abidance is probably less important.

    Simon_Jester said:
    Not ready to vote yet, but...

    @lbmaian, Mbeki's been a captain of a starship since 2306. He's had a good run. Promoting him wouldn't be in any way harming him or doing him an injustice.
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    Isn't just 6 years as a captain kind of short? I thought the average tended to be around a decade.
     
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