Suffice to say that the interpretation of the Prime Directive is a big issue in and/or with Star Trek. There's a very clearly defined principle that is 'the spirit of the law.' But in practice, actual Starfleet officers seem to whipsaw back and forth between Lawful Stupid behavior and "be humane" behavior and "fuck y'all, I'm angry" behavior and coming up with weird justifications.

Military regulations should be crafted to a higher standard than that. Among other things... what you're saying, that if Janeway never violated the Prime Directive she is unfit for command? Yeah, that may be true, but if it's true then the Prime Directive is incredibly poorly written, and/or the Federation hasn't put nearly enough effort into organizing the case law on the subject into clear guidelines for its own captains.

It's a partial explanation, but it's not like regular Starfleet captains never have problems serious enough to present quandaries and difficulties. They should still be good at what they do.

It also illustrates a fundamental problem that the Explorer Corps is likely to create for Starfleet: when you take the top 20% or so of your recruits and put them in an elite sub-organization, by definition it means that almost nobody in the regular fleet is in that top 20%. This is especially problematic since Explorer Corps crews do almost the same things as regular Starfleet ships, just more intensively and under slightly more difficult conditions.

The only remedy I can see is to make sure that Explorer Corps personnel are constantly being shuffled in and out of the regular fleet. And to be fair, given that we only really see what goes on at the 'captain' level, that seems to be the case. Let's see...

Mrr'shan at least had a brief stint aboard a regular escort. Straak served in the Explorer Corps as a staff officer but before THAT he commanded a Constellation. Mbeki, likewise, commanded a Constellation for five years before being appointed to Explorer Corps command (as did Thuir before him). McAdams commanded a regular fleet Excelsior for a few years. Going back to former Explorer Corps captains... actually I have no idea what Eaton and T'Lorel were doing before 2301, though we know Nash commanded a Miranda.

The worst 'offenders' in this respect are probably:
1) Maryam Ajam, whose only non-Explorer Corps service in the past ten years or more* was in the Cardassian navy! And, lo and behold, we're giving her a command that is so Explorer Corps it's got a crunchy Explorer Corps outer shell wrapped around delicious Explorer Corps filling with extra Explorer Corps sprinkles on the top. And...
2) Saavik, who is a strong candidate for 'career Explorer Corps' since she was Straak's XO prior to receiving command of S'harien. Note that when she was first seen on Enterprise, Enterprise was a training ship, though- not a frontline explorer. So maybe she served her time in the regular fleet in the 2290s, and even up past 2300 since we don't know where she served from 2300-2305. If she'd been under T'Lorel I would think someone would have mentioned it. And of course...
3) Then there's Nash, who is Explorer Corps from the tips of her antennae down to her toenails (I assume Andorians have toenails)- but who is also exactly the sort of person the regular fleet needs just as much as the Explorer Corps, because her gift for getting the best out of her people is at least as useful when you're not already commanding a handpicked elite.

Anyway, the real question is, to what extent does the Explorer Corps remove a certain vital spark from Starfleet by taking it out of the rest of the fleet to concentrate it on the explorers, versus to what extent does the Explorer Corps inspire the rest of the fleet and ignite it by taking personnel who've served aboard its ships, and parceling them out among the rest of the fleet to spread the awesomeness?
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*I don't remember if she was on Lion with Nash back in the day

Ajam was Excelsior when it was EC then over to regular ground postings groundside before assignment to Enterprise. Most EC officers have spent time in the regular fleet. Zhang was regular fleet up until going to Enterprise, Taggart was EC then over to Sappho which was regular fleet.

There seems to be a thing where the EC starts to bottleneck after Lieutenant so that they feed back out into the regular fleet for promotion then a few of them get fed back in to be Captains. I honestly can't think of a single officer that's never spent time in the normal fleet.

I don't think the EC/Regular fleet distinction is actually that much of a thing, because narratively it /never comes up/ as a thing. It's never shown as a hard split. People go back and forth.
 
[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form

I'm convinced on the Renaissance hull variant.

For the Kepler I'd want to see Maximum Science! Good D and 2 H/L preferably in an 850kt escort but I'd accept it in a 1mt light cruiser if needed. My thinking is a ship thats a match for our best science, won't pop like a soap bubble and has the D to get to (and get away from) interesting stuff.

On the Prime Directive I always thought the letter of the law was "No Interference." but the spirit of it was "Break it if you want to, but be prepared to defend your decision." This left 3 categories for Prime directivism:
  1. Janeways - Letter of the Law - doesn't break the Prime Directive
  2. Court-Martials - Spirit of the Law - breaks it but screws up
  3. Picards - Spirit of the Law - breaks it when needed and tries very hard to minimize impact of breaking it.
In universe I bet there were enough of the 2's early in the Federation that most captains now are 1's and very few are 3's. It's just that the 3's are far more interesting so we see more of them.
 
The problem is that the Prime Directive has been blown up to this thing that every Starfleet officer swears to value above their own lives, that it's massively important, et cetera, snip three minute Picard speech here.

If it's that important... then you cannot consider "inflexibly enforces the Prime Directive even at the expense of her command's safety and welfare" to be a disqualifier for high command.

But when did this happen? I mean, sure, Kirk said something to that effect and then violated it every week and twice if the day ended in Y, which it didn't always because he ran the Enterprise on Fizzbin Time. TNG treated it as a serious matter but from Code of Honor, Pen Pals, Who Watches The Watchers, it is something that can bent if there is a greater good to achieve (and following certain rules in the process helps). Starfleet can even order delibrate violations of it in TOS and TNG (the Organians were believed to be pre-warp until they showed otherwise, and Angel One involved a pre-Warp civilization that Starfleet had actual diplomatic relations with, though rarely; Code of Honor might have involved a pre-Warp civilization as well though it's a terrible episode).I'm not sure it actually came up in DS9.

Only Voyager treats it as sancrosact as you describe. And even then the writers deliberately arranged a scene so Janeway got hit in the face immediately after telling Tom Paris to let a whole civilization die. For all we know that treatment has more to do with Janeway's personal philosophies than the actual understanding of the Prime Directive as applied by Starfleet; it's not like there's anyone in a position to argue with her about it for most of the show. Most of the other characters are either very junior comparatively or not even actually Starfleet.
 
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Incidentally, those yards open up in 2314.Q2. It would be nice if we could have the design completed, or at least complete by 2314.Q3 so that they can get to building as soon as possible. (Not just address to SJ but to the thread at large.)
That shouldn't be a problem (unless we go for the Excelsior version in which case the Amarkia yards are irrelevant anyway). If we are starting the ambassador design next year we should easily be able to afford the rp to boost generic team 3 and finish the renaissance version of the project in 2313.Q3. If we aren't we can put the Utopia Planitia team on it for a turn instead with the same result.
 
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[X][MEDICAL] Use the Constellation hull form

Medical ships can (and have) be deployed in pairs, or trios, or eight-at-a-time, depending on their capacity versus the size of the emergency:

They require that Starfleet supplement this with:
2 Hospital Ships
2 Engineering Ships
(These will automatically be pulled from Starfleet Medical and Engineering Commands)

I think modularity is a good thing.
 
Anyway, the real question is, to what extent does the Explorer Corps remove a certain vital spark from Starfleet by taking it out of the rest of the fleet to concentrate it on the explorers, versus to what extent does the Explorer Corps inspire the rest of the fleet and ignite it by taking personnel who've served aboard its ships, and parceling them out among the rest of the fleet to spread the awesomeness?
In addition to the ones @AKuz mentioned, Wolfe was an Explorer Corps ensign (has he mentioned it was on the Enterprise?) who transferred out to Intelligence after making Lieutenant. Which isn't even omake material, so it's Super Canon. Meanwhile, Vol Chad served on the Kumari before captaining Sappho and is now an EC captain candidate, but that's all omake background except for the EC captain part.

So with Wolfe alone though we know, as @AKuz said, they do tend to rotate them out and then sometimes back in again. Maybe Commander Wolfe for an EC Excelsior (Social) Science Officer one day? :V

Now to look properly at the value offered by each Considering that the Excelsior option has significantly higher costs (rp, br, berth space) and will take significantly longer to come into effect the Renaissance option is clearly the most efficient choice.
I like the analysis but I feel it's missing some methodology to make it truly robust. I think an important factor you're missing is efficiency - how much do we need a +2 bonus when we're going to have a fleet with pretty high sci factor anyways? If a lot of our ships ending up being an Excelsior, the +4 from the Hospital Excelsior might effectively go to waste if it's just making a near-certain success super-certain, instead of having more at a lesser bonus to cover a broader area. It's worth asking if the Ren and Constellation's smaller bonuses work better with the expected makeup of the fleet from the viewpoint of avoiding 'overkill' in addition to differences in coverage.
 
Ajam was Excelsior when it was EC then over to regular ground postings groundside before assignment to Enterprise. Most EC officers have spent time in the regular fleet. Zhang was regular fleet up until going to Enterprise, Taggart was EC then over to Sappho which was regular fleet.

There seems to be a thing where the EC starts to bottleneck after Lieutenant so that they feed back out into the regular fleet for promotion then a few of them get fed back in to be Captains. I honestly can't think of a single officer that's never spent time in the normal fleet.

I don't think the EC/Regular fleet distinction is actually that much of a thing, because narratively it /never comes up/ as a thing. It's never shown as a hard split. People go back and forth.
I submit that this appears to be true to a degree that is something of a relief, and that is a very very good thing. The only antidote to the problem I described earlier is massive, constant cross-pollination between the Explorer Corps and the regular fleet. So that in a real sense the "Explorer Corps" is a purely administrative organization that just happens to coordinate several big starships.

The mechanics create an illusion of it being otherwise, sometimes, what with the regular fleet and the Explorer Corps having different crew pools. Narratively, this does not seem to be so- and a good thing, too!

But when did this happen? I mean, sure, Kirk said something to that effect and then violated it every week and twice if the day ended in Y, which it didn't always because he ran the Enterprise on Fizzbin Time. TNG treated it as a serious matter but from Code of Honor, Pen Pals, Who Watches The Watchers, it is something that can bent if there is a greater good to achieve (and following certain rules in the process helps). Starfleet can even order delibrate violations of it in TOS and TNG (the Organians were believed to be pre-warp until they showed otherwise, and Angel One involved a pre-Warp civilization that Starfleet had actual diplomatic relations with, though rarely; Code of Honor might have involved a pre-Warp civilization as well though it's a terrible episode).I'm not sure it actually came up in DS9.

Only Voyager treats it as sancrosact as you describe. And even then the writers deliberately arranged a scene so Janeway got hit in the face immediately after telling Tom Paris to let a whole civilization die. For all we know that treatment has more to do with Janeway's personal philosophies than the actual understanding of the Prime Directive as applied by Starfleet; it's not like there's anyone in a position to argue with her about it for most of the show. Most of the other characters are either very junior comparatively or not even actually Starfleet.
There's Tuvok, but if you're counting on Tuvok to tell you when it's a bad idea to inflexible follow the rules, something has gone very, very wrong.

Here's the thing. If we look at the TOS era, the Prime Directive is obviously being taken in limited doses. But look at WHY.

For one, military necessity is seen as grounds to disregard it- the Klingon conflict is very close to a hot war, and has been for a long time. But the thing about Starfleet Command being able to directly order officers to violate the Prime Directive is that it enables time, due consideration, and discussion with sociologists and anthropologists and so on about the likely consequences of the violation. If you believe the Prime Directive is a core value of your society, then violating it should require some kind of "due process-" and that due process would be carried out by Starfleet Command, not by captains on the spot. Presumably, a bunch of professors and admirals sit down around a table. They go "it looks as if the Organians are going to be conquered by the Klingons, do we interfere?" Or "there is an extremely valuable mineral deposit located on a planet occupied by a bunch of big Iron Age dudes, can we send a delegation to negotiate for mineral rights?" The professors and admirals debate the issue, and only then does Kirk get orders that override General Order 1.

In some episodes, we see particularly blatant Prime Directive violations- usually committed in the past by the Federation itself, but with at least one exception where Kirk passes out muskets to a bunch of hillfolk to counteract the muskets passed out by the Klingons to the valley folk. And in that episode it's made fairly clear that Kirk is arguably in the wrong to do so.

We also see the Prime Directive interpreted to allow interference in a 'stagnant' or 'enslaved' culture, so that blowing up the computer that mind-controls everyone on the planet isn't a Prime Directive violation.

Now, we can try to construct a coherent picture out of this, probably successfully (though Kirk really dodged a bullet, if so, over the 'muskets to hillfolk' incident). The trick is that this is during an era when Starfleet is on a war footing, AND we see repeated examples of entire planetary civilizations going horribly wrong due to interference by Federation scientists and officials. Whole planets full of Nazis and gangsters.

...

Then we have the TNG/DS9/VOY era. In DS9 it effectively doesn't come up. In VOY, well, as discussed- Janeway treats it as sacred. In TNG, Picard talks like it's sacred. He wouldn't be doing that if he didn't believe in it.

it's just that when the chips are down he'll decide to ignore what the rules say in favor of what he believes ought to happen. He is, in effect, compromising a principle that he clearly believes in, and ignoring regulations in the process, for what he sees as a greater good. Janeway doesn't seem to be willing to take that step.

The problem is, military regulations are designed to be followed even when the officers in questions have some qualms about doing what they say. If someone orders me to fire a phaser and vaporize a Cardassian and I'm not comfortable with doing that, I still have to do that. There are exceptions for orders that are straight-up illegal (e.g. shooting prisoners). But by and large, a military organization cannot function if its officers only obey the orders they feel like obeying.

And Starfleet, while it may not be a military as such, does operate under a military degree of discipline. It has to, because its ships go into frequent danger, deadly violence does occur on a semi-regular basis, and ultimately if something horrible is threatening the whole Federation, it's going to be Starfleet that has to do the job of a military until the danger is over.

So Starfleet regulations are in effect military regulations, and have to be designed with the intent that they will be obeyed.

Which means that if you write rules that say "do this no matter what," and some officer actually does this no matter what, you don't have a leg to stand on in criticizing them. You can't say "but when we wrote the rules, we intended you to ignore them if you thought the circumstances justified that!" Because in that case you should have written the rules differently in the first place. If you didn't intend military regulations to be followed even when people aren't comfortable with the results, you should explicitly leave it up to the discretion of the people involved. You shouldn't make a rule with the intent that it be broken.

You're putting Starfleet in the position of having decided that noninterference is vital to their code of ethics, writing a law that would enforce noninterference... And then of having to act shocked when a Starfleet officer actually follows the law!
 
Omake - Stargazer - Night
Good heavens look at the time.

OMAKE TIME

Stargazer

Every Starfleet ship commissioned with a motto on its dedication plate, and a list of its forebears. For some, that list was long indeed; Enterprise came to mind, tracing lineage to Earth's Age of Sail. Everyone knew the ship's motto, To Boldly Go. For some it was much shorter and the words more obscure. There was no ship named Stargazer to be listed aside from this one. Yet if the weight of history here was light, the weight of symbolism was exceptionally heavy. Stargazer carried with her the ideals of the Federation in a way no other ship ever had on her launching day. Her first assigned mission, which might well constitute the full lifetime of another ship, would take those ideals far indeed.

They'd already caught one Tal'Shiar agent who had tried to get aboard because they hadn't believed the entire Stargazer thing was real, that the ship must be doing something else, something secret and knowing how the Tal'Shiar thought incredibly dastardly. Especially with the mysteriously not-dead Maryam Ajam in command, and demonstrating a great deal of enthusiasm for the project. And the extra crew and a hospital ship being assigned. Listening to the rumor mill churn out Romulan Conspiracy Theories about the assignment had been greatly amusing for the crew.

With such weight behind it, there had been a surprisingly intense debate over many minor details of the mission. Reputedly choosing the proper motto had involved at least one Federation Councilor making a request, two Vulcans in Shipyard Ops who had expressed the opinion that the other's favored choice was "highly illogical" in front of a crowd and at more than a conversational volume, pressure from the office of CINC-Starfleet, at least one bar fight, and a team of Tellarite debate specialists who had been thrown out of Earth Spacedock by the chief of Shipyard Ops. But in the end a particular phrase that had been much in the media of late won out. In some ways, there had never been another real contender. Nothing else suggested had remotely the same meaning to Starfleet itself. History finally being written on the subject; history judging that it was with these words there was suddenly more to the red uniform and the title United Federation of Planets Star Ship than the fading memory of James T. Kirk.

USS Stargazer
NCC-2012
We look to the stars as they are, never blinking.
 
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For all of that, we've never had a "tempted to violate the Prime Directive" Event come up in this quest. Off the top of my head I can recall one instance where we had a starship nearly get spotted accidentally and another where Yrillians were screwing with a pre-Warp culture and our people had to stop them while preserving the Prime Directive. But never an instance where violating the Prime Directive was tempting in order to protect a culture from something else.
 
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Honestly, the Prime Directive to me seems most absolute when dealing with the politics of foreign entities, and even then they find ways to bend it. SFDebris has covered how it gets pretty ethically sticky when you go to like "oh we can't divert a comet that's going to hit a planet because the civilization there is prewarp, sad!" and just from my limited memory that's usually where they do PD violations.

Honestly, I suspect there's like, two sections to the PD: Prime Directive with peer (ie warp-capable) powers, and Prime Directive with sub-warp powers. I think the former section must be near-absolute; but I suspect the latter has a clause like "Under some cases the Captain's own judgement overrides this directive."
 
Honestly, the Prime Directive to me seems most absolute when dealing with the politics of foreign entities, and even then they find ways to bend it. SFDebris has covered how it gets pretty ethically sticky when you go to like "oh we can't divert a comet that's going to hit a planet because the civilization there is prewarp, sad!" and just from my limited memory that's usually where they do PD violations.

Honestly, I suspect there's like, two sections to the PD: Prime Directive with peer (ie warp-capable) powers, and Prime Directive with sub-warp powers. I think the former section must be near-absolute; but I suspect the latter has a clause like "Under some cases the Captain's own judgement overrides this directive."

Starfleet shouldn't interfere with the politics of foreign warp-capable entities only because that's the business of the Federation as a whole, not because there's any moral principle why we shouldn't interfere with their politics.
 
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Starfleet should interfere with the politics of foreign warp-capable entities only because that's the business of the Federation as a whole, not because there's any moral principle why we shouldn't interfere with their politics.
"Crooked Dukat says Starfleet Intelligence hacked her but she lost because she was CORRUPT! No evidence, complete fabrication. Sad!"

Listen I know we joke about Orion being Space Iraq but do you want actual space Iraq? Because this is how you get space Iraq.
 
I'm definitely of the opinion that most of the post-TOS Prime Directive interpretations are absolute ass (especially Dear Doctor, despite it being prior to TOS in-universe.)

They don't treat it as a military regulation or as a matter of moral responsibility so much as a plot device and in-universe as some kind of weird religious rule or sommin. Really really quite hate the modern PD.

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form
 
I really don't get the religious rule thing guys. Picard violated it how many times and kept his captaincy? What sort of shitty religion is this without excommunication?
 
I really don't get the religious rule thing guys. Picard violated it how many times and kept his captaincy? What sort of shitty religion is this without excommunication?
Picard paid his penance, said his Hail Sciences and Hail Federations, and he's fine.

There are a few "disgraced" Starfleet Captains and the like out there. Just, you know, most of them know the steps to not get de-Starfleeted!
 
Picard paid his penance, said his Hail Sciences and Hail Federations, and he's fine.

There are a few "disgraced" Starfleet Captains and the like out there. Just, you know, most of them know the steps to not get de-Starfleeted!
in The Young Pope But Like A Star Trek Version, a radical new head of Starfleet comes to power and in a series of scathing and occasionally surreal monolouges fires like half the fleet.
 
High D on our Kepler design is a good way shit the bed in event response. I would recommend a ship that has either:
High S, very low D
or
High S (but somewhat less), okay D, good P

Please don't put forth a design requirement with high D. It will not work in practice.
 
Remember that all Science events have the vessel's S score added to the D score when checking response. Remember also that we do not want science vessels responding to non-science events.

I'd honestly be absolutely fine with D1.
 
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