You know, on the other hand, we once saw an officer of the Federation break into a high-level diplomatic meeting and convince the leaders of a prospective member planet not to sign a treaty and get off totally scot-free, so maybe PD absoluteness comes down to the individual preferences of each captain.

Of course a complicating factor is that officer was Ben Motherfucking Sisko so...

Worf goes back to save Jadzia on a mission, resulting in the death of a major intelligence source in wartime and is told he will likely never be promoted to a command position for his transgressions. Meanwhile Sisko commands entire fleets and is a trusted advisor and Picard's a hero, so apparently One Dead Cardassian > PD Violations in terms of disciplinary action.
 
Remember that all Science events have the vessel's S score added to the D score when checking response. Remember also that we do not want science vessels responding to non-science events.

I'd honestly be absolutely fine with D1.
Still, some ship is better than no ship.

In universe, why would we not want to make ships have a larger fuel/consumable reserve?
 
High D on our Kepler design is a good way shit the bed in event response. I would recommend a ship that has either:
High S, very low D
or
High S (but somewhat less), okay D, good P

Please don't put forth a design requirement with high D. It will not work in practice.
I mean, we're not expecting it to get higher than 2-3 really, are we? And the whole point of the questionnaire being included in the next MWCO is to hopefully solicit input from the member fleets on what they would like to see. (Explorers are our babies and we don't ask for other people's opinions except the Council.) If they are divided in opinion, then we can look to ourselves with a clean conscience. But if they show broad support for one feature of the design over another, we should consider why they are united in opinion that this is the way forward.
 
I mean, we're not expecting it to get higher than 2-3 really, are we? And the whole point of the questionnaire being included in the next MWCO is to hopefully solicit input from the member fleets on what they would like to see. (Explorers are our babies and we don't ask for other people's opinions except the Council.) If they are divided in opinion, then we can look to ourselves with a clean conscience. But if they show broad support for one feature of the design over another, we should consider why they are united in opinion that this is the way forward.

A Player giving a list of potential options for the QM to vote on is certainly a unique way to run a quest. :p

I mean, in seriousness, why would we want to throw that ball back to NPCs to decide when we could just make the type of science vessel we think would be good?
 
Tongue in cheek counter to minimum D on Keplar:

Captain's Log, USS Keplar.
It has taken us a full month to crawl to the interesting anomaly the Enterprise found. Our crew are eager to begin pulling it apart, but first of all we have to travel to Starbase 3 to resupply, so they will have to wait another two weeks to do more than initial readings. Once we can put in some full time poking, hopefully they can solve it before we have to pull back to resupply again.
 
[X][MEDICAL] Use the Constellation hull form

Lower science bonus, but more likely to have one that can respond with more of them.
 
Remember that all Science events have the vessel's S score added to the D score when checking response. Remember also that we do not want science vessels responding to non-science events.

I'd honestly be absolutely fine with D1.

I'd counter that we quite possibly do want science ships showing up to otherwise non science events. At least alongside our normal garrisson ships.
This is Star Trek, 90% of problems are solved by technobabble. Having our mobile technobabble generstors respond to the same event as an escort might mean the the event can be solved in a way outside of the competance of either ship.

For example a colony calls for distress after one of its supply ships is hijacked by pirates. Sounds like a definite escort job. But maybe if a Kepler turns up too they can figure out the the pirates are using a nearby astrological phenomenon to get the drop on their targets. Whereas on its own the escort might have been ambushed and failed the event, with science support it is aware and ready.

I don't know if Oneiros' event resolution works like that, with mulitple possible paths to success. But it seems to me like a big part of Star Trek is trying to science the shit out of every possible problem.
 
Last edited:
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 1007 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

Task: MEDICAL

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form.
No. of Votes: 37
Ato
10ebbor10
aeqnai
Armok
Artemis1992
Cornuthaum
Cpt. Bread
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
Erandil
Finagle007
fitzgerald
Forgothrax
Gingganz
Happerry
HearthBorn
Jello_Raptor
JesseJ
Kelenas
KnightDisciple
Muer'ci
Muramasa
NHO
Night
Night_stalker
Nix
pbluekan
Questara
Random Member
Shard
TerrisH
Theunderbolt
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Void Stalker
Yorick's Skull

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Constellation hull form
No. of Votes: 11
veekie
anon_user
Briefvoice
ClawClawBite
Iron Wolf
kelllogo
Nervos Belli
NullVoid
Tasoli
thamuzz
Torgamous

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form
-[X] Write-in: Build two more than estimated, cover the overrun costs from Starfleet budget.
No. of Votes: 1
pheonix89

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form.
-[X] Run cost estimates for production runs of 10 and 12.
No. of Votes: 1
thepsyborg

Total No. of Voters: 50

Rennie hull maintains its huge lead.
 
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) | Page 1007 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

Task: MEDICAL

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form.
No. of Votes: 37
Ato
10ebbor10
aeqnai
Armok
Artemis1992
Cornuthaum
Cpt. Bread
DarknessSmiles
Derek58
Erandil
Finagle007
fitzgerald
Forgothrax
Gingganz
Happerry
HearthBorn
Jello_Raptor
JesseJ
Kelenas
KnightDisciple
Muer'ci
Muramasa
NHO
Night
Night_stalker
Nix
pbluekan
Questara
Random Member
Shard
TerrisH
Theunderbolt
tryrar
UbeOne
UberJJK
Void Stalker
Yorick's Skull

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Constellation hull form
No. of Votes: 11
veekie
anon_user
Briefvoice
ClawClawBite
Iron Wolf
kelllogo
Nervos Belli
NullVoid
Tasoli
thamuzz
Torgamous

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form
-[X] Write-in: Build two more than estimated, cover the overrun costs from Starfleet budget.
No. of Votes: 1
pheonix89

[X][MEDICAL] Use the Renaissance hull form.
-[X] Run cost estimates for production runs of 10 and 12.
No. of Votes: 1
thepsyborg

Total No. of Voters: 50

Rennie hull maintains its huge lead.

Well I still don't agree, but after all it's not that important of a vote in the grand scheme of things.
 
ON THE PRIME DIRECTIVE:

For all of that, we've never had a "tempted to violate the Prime Directive" Event come up in this quest. Off the top of my head I can recall one instance where we had a starship nearly get spotted accidentally and another where Yrillians were screwing with a pre-Warp culture and our people had to stop them while preserving the Prime Directive. But never an instance where violating the Prime Directive was tempting in order to protect a culture from something else.
I think that's mainly because Oneiros doesn't have our explorers encountering the pre-warp civilizations the Prime Directive applies to very often.

Whereas in the TV shows, the Enterprise (and Voyager) run into a new random planet full of aliens every other week. Possibly literally. So the Prime Directive comes up a lot for them.

The closest we've had to that was this incident in 2309Q2, as logged by Captain Nash:

We are helping out the scientists who are a little reluctant to travel in the contested frontier without support. Earlier scans revealed a pre-industrial age civilisation residing on a Class M world not far rim-ward of Indoria. Our sensor crews have accomplished much of the work, but there are some areas the scientist are very keen to explore that are emitting naturally sensor-resistant waves. When they requested use of a shuttle to access these areas, I decided I could do with a good wilderness stroll myself, and will be joining them.

...

Massive EM storms, the same ones that give our orbit-based investigations so much trouble, have disabled our shuttle on approach. Our pilot brought us in as gracefully as he could, and we are all intact. Unfortunately, we have now been found by the locals.

Initial reactions are mixed. I'm not sure if I'm to be crowned as a goddess or burned as a witch. It may be both.

...

That was a narrow escape. We were to be sacrificed to appease the "gods" who send the Ion Storms. Thankfully, a beautiful priestess helped us escape, giving us the chance to prove that their "gods" were, in fact, renegade Orions!

Which, incidentally, saves me from an awkward Prime Directive talk.

Honestly, the Prime Directive to me seems most absolute when dealing with the politics of foreign entities, and even then they find ways to bend it. SFDebris has covered how it gets pretty ethically sticky when you go to like "oh we can't divert a comet that's going to hit a planet because the civilization there is prewarp, sad!" and just from my limited memory that's usually where they do PD violations.

Honestly, I suspect there's like, two sections to the PD: Prime Directive with peer (ie warp-capable) powers, and Prime Directive with sub-warp powers. I think the former section must be near-absolute; but I suspect the latter has a clause like "Under some cases the Captain's own judgement overrides this directive."
I am about 100% sure this is the case.

Starfleet shouldn't interfere with the politics of foreign warp-capable entities only because that's the business of the Federation as a whole, not because there's any moral principle why we shouldn't interfere with their politics.
And yet, some Starfleet captains seem to think of it as a moral principle.



ON THE KEPLER:

Still, some ship is better than no ship.
If the event is one that chews up weak ships and spit them out, having our weak ships not show up is a MUCH better "no ship" outcome than having one of our weak ships get chewed up and spat out.

In universe, why would we not want to make ships have a larger fuel/consumable reserve?
Because it costs more? Because higher Defense means more space committed to the warp drive and less to sensors and lab facilities? Not every ship needs to be able to zoom across the quadrant at Warp Factor Eleven.

Tongue in cheek counter to minimum D on Keplar:

Captain's Log, USS Keplar.
It has taken us a full month to crawl to the interesting anomaly the Enterprise found. Our crew are eager to begin pulling it apart, but first of all we have to travel to Starbase 3 to resupply, so they will have to wait another two weeks to do more than initial readings. Once we can put in some full time poking, hopefully they can solve it before we have to pull back to resupply again.
Even our Defense 2 Mirandas seem to be able to cover one map square per week without any particular trouble. And to spend months on station without stopping for resupply. That's good enough. The Defense 1 Oberths are doing fine with survey work and so on. The T'Mir certainly hasn't had any trouble operating for long periods in deep space without constant resupply.

I'd counter that we quite possibly do want science ships showing up to otherwise non science events. At least alongside our normal garrisson ships.
This is Star Trek, 90% of problems are solved by technobabble. Having our mobile technobabble generstors respond to the same event as an escort might mean the the event can be solved in a way outside of the competance of either ship.

For example a colony calls for distress after one of its supply ships is hijacked by pirates. Sounds like a definite escort job. But maybe if a Kepler turns up too they can figure out the the pirates are using a nearby astrological phenomenon to get the drop on their targets. Whereas on its own the escort might have been ambushed and failed the event, with science support it is aware and ready.

I don't know if Oneiros' event resolution works like that, with mulitple possible paths to success. But it seems to me like a big part of Star Trek is trying to science the shit out of every possible problem.
See, the problem with this approach is that you're visualizing the "good news" scenario. The ship trying to solve a problem shows up, assisted by a helpful free science vessel! It's like a normal event response, only better! There's no downside!

But you're not visualizing what could go wrong. What if the science vessel shows up first and the pirates decide to crack it open and loot its valuable equipment? What if the emergency is a separatist movement on a planetary surface, or a trade negotiation, and the science officer's captain commits a diplomatic faux pas because he's been doing nothing but study spatiotemporal whozits for the last three years?

So there is very much a downside.

I trust SWB's analysis: generalist escorts are not a good solution to our event response needs, because they try to be cruisers and fail. Going forward into the era where our cruiser tonnage isn't limited by our 1000kt berths, cruisers are going to be big enough to be generalists; escorts aren't. A successful escort needs to be specialized- specialized in combat, specialized in insta-winning science tasks, OR a hybrid Science/Presence/Defense ship that can respond to ALL peacetime event needs.
 
At some point in the future we need to give Medical enough of its own budget that they field ships not based on our own classes at all. Maybe something like the Pasteur from All Good Things adjusted for the tech level.
 
At some point in the future we need to give Medical enough of its own budget that they field ships not based on our own classes at all. Maybe something like the Pasteur from All Good Things adjusted for the tech level.

While I appreciate in abstract the argument of making medical ships look different from other ships, I don't really think it's worth doing an entire extra design. Seems like a waste of resources. They can just paint the hull a different color or something. Standardization of parts and construction is generally a good thing. It means if a medical ship needs repair it can visit any starbase or berth acquainted with Starfleet ships and they won't have any kind of learning curve to fix it.
 
One thing to note, if you look into the research trees, there are things that give shield bonuses against stellar events, and assorted other event responce type things, so having higher stats is not just for being able to tag along in combat.

One thing being pulled out in the ship design thread recently was seeing if we could have the long range classification that the Oberth has via having some minimums met at the component level (as part of a discussion about that makes an escort vs. cruiser vs. explorer).
 
I trust SWB's analysis: generalist escorts are not a good solution to our event response needs, because they try to be cruisers and fail. Going forward into the era where our cruiser tonnage isn't limited by our 1000kt berths, cruisers are going to be big enough to be generalists; escorts aren't. A successful escort needs to be specialized- specialized in combat, specialized in insta-winning science tasks, OR a hybrid Science/Presence/Defense ship that can respond to ALL peacetime event needs.
Or, the specialized scanners can be used to see if that ship is hostile, and call for speed-of-plot support?
 
I mean, we're not expecting it to get higher than 2-3 really, are we? And the whole point of the questionnaire being included in the next MWCO is to hopefully solicit input from the member fleets on what they would like to see. (Explorers are our babies and we don't ask for other people's opinions except the Council.) If they are divided in opinion, then we can look to ourselves with a clean conscience. But if they show broad support for one feature of the design over another, we should consider why they are united in opinion that this is the way forward.

Do they even have any Oberths? The Apiata have a survey ship. But the science ship isn't really something our member worlds at likely to build. At all. Doesn't make sense to base our design requirement on their input.
 
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