For a more IC wording of the proposal... maybe something like "I would like to put forward to the Federation Council that when assessing the Starfleet's Current Armanent and whether it is suitable for the current state of the galaxy, vessels assigned to Five Year Missions should not be thought of with the same weight as an equivalent vessel outside of the Exploration Corp. The duties of the Exploration Corp are inherently dangerous, and vessels assigned to Five Year Missions operate with minimal, if existent, support. Indeed, Five Year Missions remove those vessels assigned from the Federation's Space, and while they can be called upon to return in an emergency said return is far from guaranteed to occur in a timely fashion. As such, it is Starfleet's belief that the expectations placed upon these vessels in the role of defensive operations should be drastically reduced. With allowance for increased fleet size to account for the resulting loss."

Eh, I'm still skeptical from a game balance perspective. Balancing militarization is one of the defining challenges of the quest system. There doesn't seem to be much benefit in allowing this. I mean, look at what you said:

Long-term, it makes life *so* much easier for us, as rather than losing a Militarisation Point to building a *single* Sovereign for a new Five Year Explorer, we only pick up 6 points of Combat. Feels a lot more natural for Long Term usage, given that I doubt we'll be calling off the Five Year Explorers for anything short of a War.

A little too much easier. We've already seen that exploration missions have big returns. They provide resources and political will when our Explorers are successful. We definitely want to keep as much exploration going as we can, and the balancing factor is that it means if all our combat potential is tied up in that, defenses at home are correspondingly weaker. If we can have lots of Exploration and still have high combat potential at home, it's a no-brainer. Saying that their Combat would count for full when we bring them home and that we'd only bring them home in the event of a war means that there's no penalty, because you know Threat Level would go up massively in the event of a war.
 
Eh, I'm still skeptical from a game balance perspective. Balancing militarization is one of the defining challenges of the quest system. There doesn't seem to be much benefit in allowing this. I mean, look at what you said:



A little too much easier. We've already seen that exploration missions have big returns. They provide resources and political will when our Explorers are successful. We definitely want to keep as much exploration going as we can, and the balancing factor is that it means if all our combat potential is tied up in that, defenses at home are correspondingly weaker. If we can have lots of Exploration and still have high combat potential at home, it's a no-brainer. Saying that their Combat would count for full when we bring them home and that we'd only bring them home in the event of a war means that there's no penalty, because you know Threat Level would go up massively in the event of a war.
Maybe, and if our dear QM says "Nope, that breaks the system" then I would understand. But from an IC perspective it makes sense. We have multiple centuries of records by this point IC that say "Space is beautiful, wonderful, and amazing, and a whole bunch gribblies like hiding in it." If we start trying to exploit that Policy to Stockpile Active Warships, then I would totally expect to have the Council go "Yeah, you need to back off on that or we'll return to our old way of assessing Starfleet's Armament. Heck, they might do that anyway as a 'Stick' to get us to follow their lead on something. Like, for example, the Cardassians. It's not a hard fix, it's an IC response to a problem that gives us a bit of breathing room for making sure our Exploration Corp is up to task while paving the way for future IC development and issues.

*Edit* Heck, imagine the Political Fallout if we did wind up having a full armada in the Exploration Corp and someone declared war on us. We call the armada back, find out that actually the war no where near justified pulling that much firepower back, and suddenly the Federation Council is looking very closely at our Combat Potential. Not to mention the reaction from everyone else to seeing that Pacifist Exploration Corp showing up and slaughtering a faction all on its own.
 
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The Fed Council considers Five Year Missions to be a core function of Starfleet, so is unlikely to allow such a proposal. However, the Explorer Corps ships do only count as baseline ships, not post-bonus.
Oh that is good news in part, I was worried that all the boosts from crew experience were going to push us over. Still we are going to have to work to increase the combat cap mainly because the Constitution and now Excelsior and the other ships of that line make such good explorers as they can do everything. Tied for the best science along with having the best presence so great for first contact. In addition they have the combat potential and defensive ability to deal with unknown and survive. Oberths are nice, but I feel like they should be to follow up on areas of scientific survey discovered by the 5 year missions. Actually I think we should pitch the increase to combat score that way at the next council meeting and we have two prime examples from this quarter of why good combat ability is important for explorers.

Also I would like to prioritize the non pacifist races for joining the Federation.
 
Still we are going to have to work to increase the combat cap mainly because the Constitution and now Excelsior and the other ships of that line make such good explorers as they can do everything.

Increasing the threat level and lowering militarization are both actions that we can take. They require about a year's worth of political will each, but that's not so bad.

Also, I imagine the cap will expand as the Federation gains new members. With more key systems to protect, a bigger fleet will be justified.

Also I would like to prioritize the non pacifist races for joining the Federation.

Wow. Yeah, I'd rather have new members that don't drag us into wars, even at the cost of a smaller fleet.
 
I hope no one minds more ENTERPRISE-B ADVENTURES:

ENTERPRISE WINS OVER THE AMAKI:
-snip-

Now taught in the Starfleet Academy as the ka'Sharren Manoeuvre !

Hmm, what to do for this, though... Here, pick an option!

(@AKuz only option)
[ ] Eager Beavers - Amarki immediately apply for Affiliate Status, en route to becoming members. Gain .25 Officers/Enlisted/Tech per turn.
[ ] Welcome Surprise - 25% chance that the Amarki flagship will appear in an Enterprise battle. This will be rolled for until it procs - one-shot.
[ ] Cautiously Optimistic - Federation Council is pleased ... but a little concerned at finding yet another warrior race. +1 Threat Level.
 
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I'm definitely planning on Decommissioning those Soyuz. There's four of them, so that's a drop of 8 points in Combat. Though, @OneirosTheWriter , is our Combat ceiling [Currently 100] relative to Total Minimum Defence?

I'm kind of curious as to what's going to be happening around the Galaxy now. It looks like we're going to hit a holding pattern fairly quickly...
[ ] Eager Beavers - Amarki immediately apply for Affiliate Status, en route to becoming members. Gain .25 Officers/Enlisted/Tech per turn.

[ ] Cautiously Optimistic - Federation Council is pleased ... but a little concerned at finding yet another warrior race. +1 Threat Level.
Oh that is a nasty choice. I like it.
 
Hmmm, I think putting them on the fast track to joining the Federation is the best option in the long run.
 
I didn't think it was our choice, but rather AKuz's.

Wow, yeah, no, no it's fine give me some input.

I honestly didn't expect a choice. I wrote it for the same reason I wrote the first bit, I'm legit enjoying the quest and it's firing up my muse

I'm personally leaning towards "Eager Beavers"

EDIT: That's not to say thanks! This is nice!
 
Okay, so when it comes to custom ship design, I have kind of made a monstrosity-uh, a worksheet. I'm fine-tuning my starting tech modifiers at the moment. If people want to see it, PM me, I don't want to put the link up publicly.

But long story short, if you've seen the game Rule the Waves (there's a lot of LPs on the Computer section of the forum) then it's ... well, basically that. You have a hull type that allows you a certain amount of mass, increasing your stats draws more power, requires a beefier warp reactor, more hull points means more weight, yadda yadda.

It's actually relatively easy to use, just pay no attention to the scary ass calcs being used.

As a result, research options are going to be mostly along the lines of researching ways to use high stat numbers in smaller ships with less crippling power requirements, researching new hull types, nacelle types, etc etc etc. There will be a cap of 5~10rp assigned to any tech.

I'm still considering what the most user friendly way of laying it out is. Maybe something akin to HoI 2 where you have design teams available and you assign them to a project, or maybe HoI 3 where you just pick the techs you want for as much RP as you have.
 
Wow, yeah, no, no it's fine give me some input.

I honestly didn't expect a choice. I wrote it for the same reason I wrote the first bit, I'm legit enjoying the quest and it's firing up my muse

I'm personally leaning towards "Eager Beavers"

EDIT: That's not to say thanks! This is nice!
I know but I still want to show some appreciation :)
 
But long story short, if you've seen the game Rule the Waves (there's a lot of LPs on the Computer section of the forum) then it's ... well, basically that. You have a hull type that allows you a certain amount of mass, increasing your stats draws more power, requires a beefier warp reactor, more hull points means more weight, yadda yadda.
You know when I first noticed this quest and saw shipyard berths measured in tonnage I said to @anon_user "hey this looks like Rule the Waves but in SPAAAAACE!"

Glad to see I wasn't very far off. :V
 
I'd prefer to keep the number of custom ships limited so that we don't go really overboard on them.

Have you thought about researching various technologies to give benefits beyond stat increases to ships?
 
I'm still considering what the most user friendly way of laying it out is. Maybe something akin to HoI 2 where you have design teams available and you assign them to a project, or maybe HoI 3 where you just pick the techs you want for as much RP as you have.

Despite the shit it got, I always liked MOO3 style where you put research in an area and it gave you a tech from that general area, after a time

I know but I still want to show some appreciation :)

> : )

I hope you don't mind, but I legit like this quest and it's been firing my muse, and right now it feels like I might end up doing this semi-regularily (probably just for Enterprise... and Romulans maybe? > : 3 )
 
I'd prefer to keep the number of custom ships limited so that we don't go really overboard on them.

Have you thought about researching various technologies to give benefits beyond stat increases to ships?
Yeah, it won't be just ships, will be other things like being able to boost the rate at which other factions respond to Fed diplomacy, or gaining saving re-rolls in some circumstances.

Edit: Also, there are stiff penalties on things like prototype ships, so you don't want to be just spamming ship designs in any event. Personally I think the canon ship classes will cover needs, but I'm open to people investing in classes to cover specific needs.
 
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I'm still considering what the most user friendly way of laying it out is. Maybe something akin to HoI 2 where you have design teams available and you assign them to a project, or maybe HoI 3 where you just pick the techs you want for as much RP as you have.
Hearts of Iron 2 gives both you and us way more ways to interact with tech. In particular, it lets you slant Federation tech towards some technologies (such as dual use peaceful techs) and away from others (gatling phasers comes to mind), it allows us to pick up new tech teams when new races join, and it allows for getting and improving tech teams to be projects (or at least part of projects) that cost PP.

On the other hand:
Despite the shit it got, I always liked MOO3 style where you put research in an area and it gave you a tech from that general area, after a time
I have a weak preference for this, but I'll admit it basically puts the most work on you while giving us the least to interact with. (The benefit is primarily realism.)
 
I have a weak preference for this, but I'll admit it basically puts the most work on you while giving us the least to interact with. (The benefit is primarily realism.)

We could suggest possible categories, and our illustrious QM chooses from between them once we've hit a threshold? Dunno.

Or we could get tech teams with Preferences for certain kinds of tech from each full member and a slight bonus from associates, then assign them to certain categories, then presumably past a certain Number of research per turn it becomes pretty inefficient to just throw bodies at a problem and you're better off picking multiple categories?

Oh, also:

AKuz Vote:
[x] Eager Beaver
 
Hearts of Iron 2 gives both you and us way more ways to interact with tech. In particular, it lets you slant Federation tech towards some technologies (such as dual use peaceful techs) and away from others (gatling phasers comes to mind), it allows us to pick up new tech teams when new races join, and it allows for getting and improving tech teams to be projects (or at least part of projects) that cost PP.

Hmm. Maybe each member race could count as a tech team? It would keep things fairly simple while also giving more drive to the Federation to assimilate new races?

fasquardon
 
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