Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Pretty much. We're limited by cost and well, it's hard to cram in multiple stuff like that.
Especially given the hulls we're working with.
Linked contents
Especially given the hulls we're working with.
Someone pointed this out in comments, but I'll bring it back up to remind people, we learned something very, very valuable.
We learned when the war with the Klingons was coming. We have time to prepare. In the lead up, we can pick whether to spam cost-effective battle frigates that'll be swarming from shipyards ready for combat, or larger warships with bleeding edge battle technologies.
Edit: Also, before with the science ship, there was some reasonable debate as to whether or not to install maximum armaments, given we knew there would be other, more combat-oriented designs before the war with the Klingon Empire, and we wanted a dedicated and high-performance science ship. As we approach that date, we can now focus on improving combat performance, knowing that it will have definite and very valuable utility to Federation interests. Now, when we design a utility or scout ship, we can give it the heaviest weapons possible and know it won't be wasted.
More importantly, @Sayle, sorry to hear you're so crook. Hope you get a speedy and satisfactory recovery.
We learned when the war with the Klingons was coming. We have time to prepare. In the lead up, we can pick whether to spam cost-effective battle frigates that'll be swarming from shipyards ready for combat, or larger warships with bleeding edge battle technologies.
Edit: Also, before with the science ship, there was some reasonable debate as to whether or not to install maximum armaments, given we knew there would be other, more combat-oriented designs before the war with the Klingon Empire, and we wanted a dedicated and high-performance science ship. As we approach that date, we can now focus on improving combat performance, knowing that it will have definite and very valuable utility to Federation interests. Now, when we design a utility or scout ship, we can give it the heaviest weapons possible and know it won't be wasted.
More importantly, @Sayle, sorry to hear you're so crook. Hope you get a speedy and satisfactory recovery.
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2212: Warp Eight Engine (Reactor)
There have been unhappy noises as of late from certain branches of Starfleet. Fortunately it has nothing to do with the Starfleet Design Bureau directly, for all it impacts on your area of expertise. The issue is that as local space stabilises and the growth of the Federation continues to encroach on more established powers the capability gaps between Starfleet and other forces have become increasingly concerning to Command. The Klingon D6 cruiser, for example, has been detected travelling at a solid Warp 7 on long-range scans. With a number of ships in the fleet that are only capable of 6.8 that represents a serious strategic concern, and the specter of unknown Romulan advances also complicates countermeasures to a potential Deep Strike doctrine executed from across the neutral zone.
Simply put, the Warp 7 Engine is showing its age and feet are being held to the fire in Yoyodyne to produce a meaningful improvement. The Type-3 nacelle has been a useful stopgap, to be sure, but to reaffirm the viability of Starfleet in a wider conflict that may erupt in the near future another major leap is required. Yoyodyne has reached out to the Design Bureau for a cooperation similar to that which was instrumental in the development of the Type-3, trusting in your insights as to what would be most useful for the future Starfleet.
The issues you need to grapple with manifest themselves before pen is even put to paper - or stylus to pad, as the case may be. While incremental improvement may fill your design brief, a generational stride will require more ambitious decisions. Currently there are two metrics to keep in mind: the availability date, which represents when you can expect to have enough of the engine finalised and available to plan around; and whether or not the Warp 8 Engine will be backwards compatible for designs currently running the Warp 7 block. If it is fully compatible, the engine can simply be swapped out with its predecessor. If it requires a refit, then yardtime and priority management means much of the Warp 7 fleet will likely be left with the old engine. If it is incompatible, only next-generation starships will be able to use the Warp 8 Engine.
The current Warp 7 Engine is in many ways a descendant of the old Warp 5 Engine in that it follows the same basic operating principles: a full-length chamber design where antimatter and matter is injected at one end of a large reaction chamber and magnetic fields then compress the fuel together and channel the intermix towards the rear of the compartment. The reaction plasma increases in intensity as it travels through the chamber, with the final antimatter particles finishing their annihilation as the plasma reaches the exit and is then transferred to the nacelles. This has served United Earth and then Starfleet well enough over the past half-century.
But cracks are starting to show. The full-length chamber design may not be done just yet, but it is indisputably on the way out. The problem is that as fuel loads increase, the warp engine needs to increase in size and length to ensure that the antimatter has been completely consumed by the time it reaches the main plasma manifold. While the Warp 8 Engine may not yet be prohibitively large by continuing this trend, the Warp 9 Engine most certainly will be. There is a certain camp out of Yoyodyne which is pushing very hard for an early transition to a central reaction chamber instead of continuing the current lineage.
There are advantages even for an earlier switch then required. The central reaction chamber would confine the most energetic parts of the process to a discrete volume that is substantially smaller than current designs. Even accounting for the necessity to have more precise and fail-safe fuel injectors the end result will have a smaller footprint than the full-length chamber. But creating an entirely new reaction regime requires substantial theorywork and prototype testing, and will indisputably push back the expected availability date of the Warp 8 Engine.
[ ] Full-Length Reaction Chamber
[ ] Central Reaction Chamber (Date: 2220 -> 2230) (Size Reduction)
Warp 8 Engine
Stages: Reactor (Date) - Orientation (Compatibility) - Injectors (Compatibility) - Auxiliary (Shield/Impulse Boost)
Installation: Compatible - Refit - Incompatible
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
I'm mid-treatment, which has produced enough improvement that I was able to write out most of the options/ideas for the Warp 8 Engine component and do some speculative theory for future ship designs regarding future competitor designs and so forth. The informational diagrams/comparisons/stats have also been updated with the Kea. That said, this might just be a single design for the moment depending on how much of a struggle the graphical work turns out to be.
Simply put, the Warp 7 Engine is showing its age and feet are being held to the fire in Yoyodyne to produce a meaningful improvement. The Type-3 nacelle has been a useful stopgap, to be sure, but to reaffirm the viability of Starfleet in a wider conflict that may erupt in the near future another major leap is required. Yoyodyne has reached out to the Design Bureau for a cooperation similar to that which was instrumental in the development of the Type-3, trusting in your insights as to what would be most useful for the future Starfleet.
The issues you need to grapple with manifest themselves before pen is even put to paper - or stylus to pad, as the case may be. While incremental improvement may fill your design brief, a generational stride will require more ambitious decisions. Currently there are two metrics to keep in mind: the availability date, which represents when you can expect to have enough of the engine finalised and available to plan around; and whether or not the Warp 8 Engine will be backwards compatible for designs currently running the Warp 7 block. If it is fully compatible, the engine can simply be swapped out with its predecessor. If it requires a refit, then yardtime and priority management means much of the Warp 7 fleet will likely be left with the old engine. If it is incompatible, only next-generation starships will be able to use the Warp 8 Engine.
The current Warp 7 Engine is in many ways a descendant of the old Warp 5 Engine in that it follows the same basic operating principles: a full-length chamber design where antimatter and matter is injected at one end of a large reaction chamber and magnetic fields then compress the fuel together and channel the intermix towards the rear of the compartment. The reaction plasma increases in intensity as it travels through the chamber, with the final antimatter particles finishing their annihilation as the plasma reaches the exit and is then transferred to the nacelles. This has served United Earth and then Starfleet well enough over the past half-century.
But cracks are starting to show. The full-length chamber design may not be done just yet, but it is indisputably on the way out. The problem is that as fuel loads increase, the warp engine needs to increase in size and length to ensure that the antimatter has been completely consumed by the time it reaches the main plasma manifold. While the Warp 8 Engine may not yet be prohibitively large by continuing this trend, the Warp 9 Engine most certainly will be. There is a certain camp out of Yoyodyne which is pushing very hard for an early transition to a central reaction chamber instead of continuing the current lineage.
There are advantages even for an earlier switch then required. The central reaction chamber would confine the most energetic parts of the process to a discrete volume that is substantially smaller than current designs. Even accounting for the necessity to have more precise and fail-safe fuel injectors the end result will have a smaller footprint than the full-length chamber. But creating an entirely new reaction regime requires substantial theorywork and prototype testing, and will indisputably push back the expected availability date of the Warp 8 Engine.
[ ] Full-Length Reaction Chamber
[ ] Central Reaction Chamber (Date: 2220 -> 2230) (Size Reduction)
Warp 8 Engine
Stages: Reactor (Date) - Orientation (Compatibility) - Injectors (Compatibility) - Auxiliary (Shield/Impulse Boost)
Installation: Compatible - Refit - Incompatible
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
I'm mid-treatment, which has produced enough improvement that I was able to write out most of the options/ideas for the Warp 8 Engine component and do some speculative theory for future ship designs regarding future competitor designs and so forth. The informational diagrams/comparisons/stats have also been updated with the Kea. That said, this might just be a single design for the moment depending on how much of a struggle the graphical work turns out to be.
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0t4n1z3r019
Member of the HAFPTG
- Location
- Philippines
Transitioning to the Central Reaction Chamber sounds like a good option, if some saw it as a way for us to build new engines without having problems somewhere down the line, but would it be cheaper or not is another question.
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Glad to see you back and improving Sayle. 😭
I say go smaller now to save the trouble on the next engine. We're pushing the date back, but we'd also be reducing the size/costs of the next explorer and utility cruiser designs along with giving them more power. Personally leaning toward going for Refit over full compatibility, as we've seen with the Kea refits are not a bad thing.
I say go smaller now to save the trouble on the next engine. We're pushing the date back, but we'd also be reducing the size/costs of the next explorer and utility cruiser designs along with giving them more power. Personally leaning toward going for Refit over full compatibility, as we've seen with the Kea refits are not a bad thing.
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chaotic-logic
possible impossibility
- Location
- unknown
the engines being smaller will save us from having problems with them in the future,
Smaller engines, regardless of cost. Any ship that can't be refit with them will just keep the old ones which is undesirable but not an actual loss, ships that can will get refit, and this is one of those evolutionary moments where it or an equivalent will be picked eventually and we are not currently killing anyone en masse so we just choose the time.
In other words, the only inconvenience of the ships as this particular option represents and the level of abstraction the quest deals with is concerned, is time.
In other words, the only inconvenience of the ships as this particular option represents and the level of abstraction the quest deals with is concerned, is time.
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We are currently at peace. Now would be a good time to do a major refit and THEN design the next generation warship.
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There's nothing terribly pressing on the horizon right now. The Kzinti are beaten back, the Romulans are off sulking, and the Klingons are currently more of an ongoing nuisance than a true threat. I'd say we go for the future-proofing while we have the opportunity.
Also, yay for recovery!
Also, yay for recovery!
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Welcome back! Glad you're doing better!
Agreed, go for the improved technology now. If nothing else, a physically smaller warp core will just be easier to refit where a larger one won't fit. And as mentioned, now is the time to set up our next generation. After all, that's what we're seeing from the Klingons.
Agreed, go for the improved technology now. If nothing else, a physically smaller warp core will just be easier to refit where a larger one won't fit. And as mentioned, now is the time to set up our next generation. After all, that's what we're seeing from the Klingons.
- Location
- Somewhere in the Ashes
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Wait... Hang on... It's the 2210s currently, right? The hell is a D6 doing running around then? That's a 2233 ship. Even the D5 shouldn't be out yet, cropping up in 2225.
- Location
- SEAsia
- Pronouns
- Thou
Jebus, this delay has been the largest mess Yoyodyne has caused thus far but at least we're back on track! 
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
[ ] Central Reaction Chamber (Date: 2220 -> 2230) (Size Reduction)
sounds like a better long term fix honestly
sounds like a better long term fix honestly
Klingon Shipyard
The D5 was around in the 2140s, showing up in the second season of Enterprise. The D7 shows up around 2250 at the same time as the Constitution, then is surpassed by the K'tinga in the 2280s. So it makes sense that the D6 is doing the rounds currently.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Central Reaction Chamber (Date: 2220 -> 2230) (Size Reduction)
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
Welcome back, Sayle!
[X] Central Reaction Chamber (Date: 2220 -> 2230) (Size Reduction)
StriderInCosmos
Wanderer in the Worldsea
- Location
- Somewhere in... Terminal Dogma? I think?
[X] Central Reaction Chamber (Date: 2220 -> 2230) (Size Reduction)
[X] Full-Length Reaction Chamber