Starfleet Design Bureau

It doesn't include spinning like a frisbee
Okay, so... we build a ship, normal-looking saucer section, right? But then we put torpedo tubes going every direction, not just forward and back like a chump. And THEN, we attach the thing to the secondary hull so that it spins. Each tube reloads in the time it takes to complete a full revolution, ensuring a barrage of fire. It will be known as "the buzzsaw"! Also the decks should not be designed with the centrifugal force in mind, so the crew can properly Feel The Spin.

More seriously, a smaller spinning launcher like this might work mounted below a ship as a bombardment tool, or for achieving 360 degree torpedo coverage (in one plane anyway).
 
ha! we ended up in the designs worse case scenario, facing something more maneuverable than it is, and it still performed wonderfully! I will admit in the exact scenario we saw, an aft phaser would have been worth it. But we did not build these things to fight someone who's maneuverability rating went a stage higher than ours and who made use of runabout swarms. Thank goodness they are cheap enough that we can deploy them in squadrons of two during a war.

As an observation about the kizin, it sounds like there are two kinds of ships that beat them. Something like the shark that can keep up with them in a turning fight while not being made of insanity and tissue paper, or a big durable disco ball of a ship with near 100% coverage where being able to come at it from any angle means little. So I think either extreme of the firepower vs coverage debate would work, but a moderately maneuverable ship with so so coverage would get torn to shreds.
 
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One, we're Starfleet, we prefer to not kill if we don't have to.

Two, the Kzin do the war invasion thing as a form of population control, to keep themselves stable from internal riots, rebellions, civil wars, etc.

Three, if the Kzin care about their kin at all, they're potential negotiating tools.
They're trying to kill our people, that voids their claim on life. If they want to live, they should surrender. Simple as.
 
So next item on the list is a Warspite/Battleship replacment. If not for this war we would no longer posses a active service Battleship. So its high time to make a new one to kick Kzin ass(And anyone else stupid enough to start shit in the next few decades).
 
As an observation about the kizin, it sounds like there are two kinds of ships that beat them. Something like the shark that can keep up with them in a turning fight while not being made of insanity and tissue paper, or a big durable disco ball of a ship with near 100% coverage where being able to come at it from any angle means little. So I think either extreme of the firepower vs coverage debate would work, but a moderately maneuverable ship with so so coverage would get torn to shreds.
It's almost like the Romulan War's ship designs will make a comeback. We have the successor of the Skate. Next up, Thunderchild!
 
Nah, the Sagarmathas are fine for heavy metal, I think that Starfleet is in a pretty good place right now in general for a throwdown. The Shark is just really solid in general, and there hasn't really been a generational level shift to warrant replacement vessels for our main roles either.

I do like how at least in this timeline, we haven't thrown the Escort Frigate out the window like canon Starfleet did. The Shark should serve well as the Standard through which the Federation builds its guardians.
 
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So next item on the list is a Warspite/Battleship replacment. If not for this war we would no longer posses a active service Battleship. So its high time to make a new one to kick Kzin ass(And anyone else stupid enough to start shit in the next few decades).
That exists, it's called the Sagarmatha.

Seriously though the marginal gains from making a dedicated BB are less than making a Sagarmatha block 2 and spending the resources that would have gone into BB development on more Sagarmathas.
 
So next item on the list is a Warspite/Battleship replacment. If not for this war we would no longer posses a active service Battleship. So its high time to make a new one to kick Kzin ass(And anyone else stupid enough to start shit in the next few decades).

I don't.. think we need one as much as we probably want a general cruiser replacement to help anchor the fleets
 
I don't.. think we need one as much as we probably want a general cruiser replacement to help anchor the fleets

Honestly, the Cygnus is pretty good in a scrap too? The only real new thing we can add to it are the new nacelles and upgraded armor.

EDIT: Okay, they need to update to Photon Torpedoes too. Fair enough, we could probably use a new Utility Cruiser model in that case. That's the only real thing I can see as being viable design space in the near future.
 
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That exists, it's called the Sagarmatha.

Seriously though the marginal gains from making a dedicated BB are less than making a Sagarmatha block 2 and spending the resources that would have gone into BB development on more Sagarmathas.
I think next we revisit something Cygnet sized, ie a cruiser or light cruiser and make a utility ship. We have the cargo need filled by sharks, so I think we can do something more science focused.

And we can dial in and make it both a prototype testbed and not worry too much about making a combat monster.
 
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My takeaway:

The lower coverage was a problem here, but the consequences were mostly mitigated in that combat by having two very maneuverable ships; one ship being able to swing around and to target the other ship's foes.

My other takeaway: Our maneuverability is capped not by thruster force, but our structural integrity fields.
I really hope we get a prototype option on that, 'cuz I am deeply in love with the idea of big chonkin' starships dancing like vessels half their size.

Edit: I do hope with our next ship our design needs mean we can play around with engine arrangements - actually make direct use, in terms of quest voting, of what we came up with.
 
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Also, looks like we got the Ratings Spread for the Shark.

C- Cost, which is a bit weird since we only actually put in more than the Bare Minimum of material once, B Industry, and A- Tactical.

Its throw weight is only marginally less than a Sagarmatha's though, and despite having less than half the mass, it's got half the Defense Rating between being so fucking agile and its other active defenses. It's very, very nice. Actually in spitting distance of the old NXs despite having half the Mass, and those were surprisingly tough old birds for all that they're antiquated by today's standards.
 
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My takeaway:

The lower coverage was a problem here, but the consequences were mostly mitigated in that combat by having two very maneuverable ships; one ship being able to swing around and to target the other ship's foes.

My other takeaway: Our maneuverability is capped not by thruster force, but our structural integrity fields.
I really hope we get a prototype option on that, 'cuz I am deeply in love with the idea of big chonkin' starships dancing like vessels half their size.
Interestingly this means ship turning radius is determined by the longest crew occupied measure of length or beam. Big ships generate more apparent acceleration on crew further from the axis of turn.

If we want to make a super spiner we would design a ship where all the crew stay in the central area during combat so the inertial dampeners don't need to work as hard.
 
I think next we revisit something Cygnet sized, ie a cruiser or light cruiser and make a utility ship. We have the cargo need filled by sharks, so I think we can do something more science focused.

And we can dial in and make it both a prototype testbed and not worry too much about making a combat monster.

Depends whether Starfleet thinks the Sharks and Sagas have the Kzinti handled between them.
Honestly, for our next light cruiser I think we need to bite the bullet and invest in tractor beams. Between the fact we don't have a tug capable ship in service yet and the fact that owing to its greater mass/extra power (compared to the heavy frigate) it should be a far more capable platform for it.
 
Nah, the Sagarmathas are fine for heavy metal, I think that Starfleet is in a pretty good place right now in general for a throwdown. The Shark is just really solid in general, and there hasn't really been a generational level shift to warrant replacement vessels for our main roles either.

I do like how at least in this timeline, we haven't thrown the Escort Frigate out the window like canon Starfleet did. The Shark should serve well as the Standard through which the Federation builds its guardians.

That exists, it's called the Sagarmatha.

Seriously though the marginal gains from making a dedicated BB are less than making a Sagarmatha block 2 and spending the resources that would have gone into BB development on more Sagarmathas.
You do understand that the Sags are just exploration ships? Not dedicated Battleships? Like the update provides it takes months to recall the explorers from beyond the border of the federation. Then you have to remove the heavy and expensive Science equipment and the accompanying scientists (As risking said equipment personell in war is a dumb idea). And only then you send the explorers off to serve as warships.

A true BB like the Warspite and her sisters will never be outside of the federation. So getting them to where the battle is is as easy as telling her "go there". This hypothetical Battleship replacment has no need for the multi year range, the diplomatic facileties, science labs, and the overdesigned crew comforts the long range explorators need. Making it a viable design(also normally you build them before a war starts not during.)
 
A true BB is also costing you a fortune even when in ordinary, and producing no value in the meantime.

You can get away with it in the case of escorts like the Shark--and even then, we made a slight concession to practicality by making them good at high value cargo transport. (Not many things would be able to corner a Shark after all), but even if they're spending most of their time patrolling or in ordinary, the cost isn't too crazy.

It'd be hard to make a stronger Sagarmatha with currently available technology, and very expensive. So there's not really any point to a dedicated BB design. The Thunderchild Class was commissioned in response to an existential threat to the Coalition of Worlds, most of our current foes are not in that bracket yet.
 
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With the joke about following in the footsteps of the Romulan War design out of the way, I do agree with the people pointing out that we need a new light cruiser.

The Cygnus is woefully inadequate for combat operations. As I stated earlier, it can take down a Stingray Block II, which has been obsolete and decommissioned for ages. And straight up loses to the Skate, another ship just made obsolete.

If we do not design a new light cruiser, we are going to have a repeat of the more unfortunate part of the Romulan War, specifically the horrendous light cruiser attrition.
 
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You do understand that the Sags are just exploration ships? Not dedicated Battleships? Like the update provides it takes months to recall the explorers from beyond the border of the federation. Then you have to remove the heavy and expensive Science equipment and the accompanying scientists (As risking said equipment personell in war is a dumb idea). And only then you send the explorers off to serve as warships.

A true BB like the Warspite and her sisters will never be outside of the federation. So getting them to where the battle is is as easy as telling her "go there". This hypothetical Battleship replacment has no need for the multi year range, the diplomatic facileties, science labs, and the overdesigned crew comforts the long range explorators need. Making it a viable design(also normally you build them before a war starts not during.)
I would like to direct you to the canon Constitution, Excelsior, Ambassador and Galaxy classes.

And the Century class from the last quest, which went up against like six times it's weight in dedicated warships during Operation Return and did a mutual kill despite a whole bunch of prototype teething issues.
 
Of course, just because we've looped back in time doesn't guarantee that we'll return to making the designs of the last quest. We may be on a branch of the previous timeline, so I would take any previous quest designs with a grain of salt, and not treat them as the gospel future of this quest.
 
The Federation-Kzin War
Chapter 5: The Selachii and the Palace Coup.

The Selachii-class first launched in 2190, claiming the dubious honor of being the first pure-combat ship built since the formation of the Federation in 2161. As an advancement over the Skate-class which had been so quickly designed and produced during the Earth-Romulan War it was a significant improvement in both strategic and tactical terms, with a significantly greater range that allowed it to accompany deployments with its own supplies versus the Skate's necessary reliance on other starships for antimatter during excursions away from base.

But while the Skate had been cheaply produced and suffered alarmingly high casualties, the Selachii was a far more durable ship with powerful shields to protect it. The small and vulnerable vessels produced by Earth had been entirely eclipsed by the designs which were now possible with the pooled knowledge of the Federation's member worlds. It was the beginning of the steady mass-inflation of starships as every species in local space was subjected to the pressures of increasingly advancing technological knowledge and industrial capability that required more space to mount new systems and more energy to use. In the span of fifty years the average mass of a starship with the same mission profile had tripled, an increase that would rarely be matched over the next three centuries.

The Selachii (commonly known as the 'Shark-class') was initially ordered in a tranche of ten vessels over five years, but this would soon be expanded due to circumstances beyond Starfleet's control. In the April of 2192 the palace intrigues on Kzinhome reached their apex as Hragg-Highest and Nig-Highest launched their long-conspired but poorly hidden purge of House Ritt. This failed in resounding fashion, not simply because of the disorganization of the assault once the outer defenses were breached that allowed defending Kzin to diffuse their advantage in numbers, but also because the inner sanctum was bristling with automated defenses which had been covertly installed by the Royal Jodoki over the past year. The attempt was nonetheless catastrophically public, as was the Highest-of-Kzin's retaliation for the attempt. In the span of a week, Houses Hragg and Nig were rendered utterly extinct by both the direct reprisal of the alien Jannisaries that had prompted the initial dissatisfaction with House Ritt, but also subordinate houses turning on them from within their own compounds.

Confidence in the ruling house had nonetheless been seriously damaged by the attempt. The Highest-of-Kzin judged that if the divinely-appointed rule of House Ritt was to be unquestioned even after this shameful event, then their dominance must be proven in equally conclusive fashion. Just two weeks after the palace assault, the Highest-of-Kzin sent forth all the young Heroes out into the black - their target? The overweening Federation, a feeble collective of prey and grass-eaters who would make a fine release valve for internal tensions. Kzin craft ranging from barely-armed runabouts to battleships surged over the border, striking twelve Federation colonies within the first two months. The majority of Starfleet was promptly redeployed towards the conflict zone, relying on member fleets to take up some of its usual duties, but this consolidation and preparation for a counter-offensive would not be entirely complete until the spring of 2193. In the intervening six months, a scattering of vessels judged able to directly engage Kzin ships and close enough to assist were diverted to at-risk worlds in the area. These were the explorers Olympus, Kilimanjaro, Sagarmatha, Sinai, and Aoraki; the dreadnought Warspite which had fortuitously been on a goodwill tour combined with developmental support to the outer colonies before her decommissioning; and the paired frigates Tiger and Hammerhead.

The first engagement with Kzin forces was on July 25th, over the colony of New Providence. The Tiger and Hammerhead had only arrived on-station four days prior, and on detecting the Kzin approach had redeployed in the path of the oncoming forces. The Kzin attack consisted of half-dozen runabouts racing each other to reach the planet first, as well as a well-armed Kzin interceptor running crechemaster on the lightly-armed ships. While two of the ships broke off for the colony and proceeded to land on the outskirts, the interceptor and the four runabouts directly engaged the Tiger and Hammerhead.

The initial exchange did not go well for Starfleet - a withering barrage of disruptor bolts from the overgunned interceptor took a heavy toll on the Hammerhead's shields, and while their return phasers struck true the interceptor avoided three of the incoming four torpedoes with a 720 degree roll to starboard. This was the first demonstration that mass torpedo fire would have degraded effectiveness against the Kzinti sub-capitals save at close range, and rendered last-generation photonics practically useless against smaller vessels.

Fire concentrated on the Hammerhead as the groups broke through each other's lines, and as the two Selachii came about for another pass the interceptor pivoted on its axis using maneuvering rockets and fired again, breaking through the Hammerhead's shields. Two Kzinti then abandoned one of the smaller runabouts and beamed into the Hammerhead's aft lounge. Their physiology prevented them from being able to comfortably use the doorways, but managed to enter the main corridor by the time the onboard security team assembled and intercepted them. Their resistance to the stunning effect of the phaser allowed them to advance to close-quarters, resulting in two fatalities and several critical injuries before they were neutralized.

The Tiger took point on the second attack run, while the Hammerhead took shelter in her shadow. The first exchange of fire broke through the interceptor's shields, and when the Tiger passed by she launched her torpedoes directly into the forward hull at point-blank range, causing a secondary explosion which gutted the remainder of the ship. The smaller vessels were then mopped up by the two Selachii using a reversed circle maneuver, each targeting the other's pursuing runabouts, during which the Hammerhead took minor hull strikes that caused only superficial damage.

With the orbital battle concluded, security teams and spare crew then beamed down to the colony to intercept a half-dozen Kzinti who had entered the colony in search of the colonists. Their two runabouts were claimed intact, which produced interesting but ultimately only marginally useful information regarding Kzinti construction and social behavior.

Examination of the wreckage of the Kzinti interceptor after the battle answered some questions about its maneuverability - in addition to overcharged inertial dampers, the crew were also in crash couches. This neatly explained their ability to withstand the high-gravity maneuvers that the interceptor demonstrated during combat, and the stress microfractures in the spaceframe put a distinct limit on how many times the ship would have been able to repeat the tricks. This prediction was borne out in the Battle of Shasht, when a Kzinti interceptor of the same type ruptured its spaceframe while carrying out a similar high-energy turn.

The preference for close-combat and the Kzinti resistance to heavy stun resulted in a fleet-wide directive for the use of phasers set to kill, which no doubt saved lives but unfortunately resulted in a high lethality rate for Kzinti combatants even when Starfleet had an overwhelming advantage.

In the coming weeks there were a series of engagements over protected colony worlds involving the Kilimanjaro and Aoraki, but by late September the rapid-response phase of the War was over as Starfleet filtered into the area and began to form task groups intended for a counter-push, setting up supply stations and defensive platforms to secure the local colonies.

Clearly this is an argument for a small, highly-maneuverable sublight assault craft (runabout-sized maybe, but primarily a dedicated combatant), as well as a carrier vessel for it -

I will always suggest that we can achieve greater results by having SFB weapons systems, and supermaneuverable armed/shielded assault shuttles paired with a tender vessel might be a useful fleet support tool.

In peacetime (or when their military service life has ended) you can just take the assault shuttles out and fill 'em with regular shuttles and cargo and use them for various peacetime endeavors too.

You do understand that the Sags are just exploration ships? Not dedicated Battleships? Like the update provides it takes months to recall the explorers from beyond the border of the federation. Then you have to remove the heavy and expensive Science equipment and the accompanying scientists (As risking said equipment personell in war is a dumb idea). And only then you send the explorers off to serve as warships.

A true BB like the Warspite and her sisters will never be outside of the federation. So getting them to where the battle is is as easy as telling her "go there". This hypothetical Battleship replacment has no need for the multi year range, the diplomatic facileties, science labs, and the overdesigned crew comforts the long range explorators need. Making it a viable design(also normally you build them before a war starts not during.)

How much more firepower are you getting out of a dedicated battleship of that size over a heavily armed explorer? I've generally been down on scope creep, but the opposite issue is also true and sometimes you can achieve competency in an area with minimum additional cost in which case you might as well.
 
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