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Yes. Because along with genetic discrimination the Federation practices racial segregation.
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LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
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Starfleet acts like its the center of the federation, when really its just the human starfleet, we see a Vulcan science vessel in Lower Decks implying that other species in the federation are out there exploring too. Its just humans happen to be the face of the federation, since they are the most eager to science.
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USS T'Kumbra was a Starfleet ship, not a Vulcan ship. USS Hera was also a Starfleet ship, and operated on USCT rules (Vulcan crew, Terran captain).
The Federation does not discriminate based upon genetics, you're thinking of Starfleet (and even then it's only against those who've been augmented, likely what we'd refer to today as GMOs - being altered in in a way that does not occur naturally by mating and/or natural recombination; hence that Bashir would have been fine if he'd had simple corrective gene therapy. And keep in mind, given how many species humans can mate with this would be a rather broad definition of altering).
Nor does it or Starfleet practice what could be termed racial segregation (if that were the case then Mr. Spock, Arex and M'Ress wouldn't have served aboard the Enterprise), I was talking about segregation relating to environmental conditions/tolerances, at least in TOS. It'd be far easier to set up a ships life support and related systems (such as medical, related dietary) with a single species (or multiple species with similar tolerances) in mind, especially given how much two of the founding members natural environments vary (Andorians and Vulcans).
USS Hera has a predominantly Vulcan crew, but not an exclusively Vulcan one.
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Yes, command was kept safely out of their hands, and in Geordi's mom's.
Lower Decks is not a reliable indicator of anything except comedy. Flat out. I would take it as canon at your own risk. As for Zimmerwald:
I think it's very convenient on the part of the writers to have every species hate genetic engineering the way humanity does, yes. But the rest will require me to ask you to source your claims.
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That Vulcan maintained its own fleet separate from Starfleet was also shown in TNG, Unification.
Sure does. Andoria does too, and so does Bajor, and it's almost implied to be system defense forces. That does not imply, at all, that Starfleet is not the primary defence arm of the Federation.
Are you being deliberately obstinate?
I mean, there is an argument that because of the Doylist explanation of "having people put on makeup or act a specific way is expensive or time consuming, so a lot of people are human or human like" Starfleet comes off *in universe* as human dominated. The in universe explanation is that humans are more driven to explore than the other species.
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But it does imply that rather than being a federal fleet, Starfleet is a bloated Earth fleet, Earth having appropriated to itself the role of defending the Federation (and thus most aspects of sovereignty over the Federation, with other member worlds being equals in name only).
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In-universe racial essentialism is not better.
Oh. I see. You're not being serious. Thank you for the warning.
LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
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Biggest gripe I have with star trek is how few aliens are shown to be aboard Starfleet vessels, I know the Doylist reason (expensive makeup is a no-no) but still, like TAS and Lower Decks are really good because they can actually include aliens into the cast without worrying about costs.
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Almost every Federation member state maintains their own fleet - of course, they tend to be more along the lines of the Coast Guard in role; and mostly running older or natively built ships. Like, the Andorinan Imperial Navy is still a thing, it's just more like the Swiss Guards, the USS Constitution, or similar "legacy" units and formations, kept in service as much if not more to preserve a tradition considered well worthy of preserving for its historical and or cultural value as for actual military or functional value.
Though obviously plenty of the member fleets do absolutely have such value.
Though obviously plenty of the member fleets do absolutely have such value.
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So, this is a problem on two levels, right? If Starfleet is merely the Earth Starfleet, and Earth justifies its racial policies on the basis of other member worlds being able to regulate who gets to join their podunk little flotillas despite serving in the role of national as well as system defense, there is obviously something rotten there.
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Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
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Oh, I see, you're making up a guy to get mad at.
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That the "Federation" Starfleet is merely the Earth Starfleet with its budget bloated from contributions extracted from Federation member worlds is there in white and black in the update. Earth not giving up control of its Starfleet to the Federation Congress or Council both is reasonable in light of no other member world doing the same with its fleet, and fits with the onscreen evidence of a Terran-dominated organization. And that Earth, through Starfleet, exercises real control over the nominal Federation Congress and Council is evident from Starfleet conducting a coup against the Federation Council in Paradise Lost, conducting foreign policy in contravention of the policy aims of the Federation Congress in The Undiscovered Country, maintaining Section 31, &c.
Coming up with a late 22nd century/early 23rd century systems defence/national navy design, basically an equivalent to the Soyuz class, would be pretty cool.
It'd provide a decent baseline for non-starfleet anti-piracy and patrol efforts, and also (depending on how things are set up) a nice and homogenous fleet for us to call up/mobilise during wartime.
It'd provide a decent baseline for non-starfleet anti-piracy and patrol efforts, and also (depending on how things are set up) a nice and homogenous fleet for us to call up/mobilise during wartime.
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Confirmed Extremely Screwed
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- Absconding with Alacrity
Yeeeah have you actually like
Watched any actual Star Trek
Recently
Because I know that one of the first things I did before starting my own design quest was skim through as much of Ent as I could manage (I loved Enterprise conceptually but good god was that show a Voyager level letdown in actual execution) and rewatching some of TOS.
Like, Starfleet not being a military (paramilitary, absolutely, but not actually a military) is a major political and philosophical choice on the part of the Federation.
And uh.
Bringing up section 31, aka the guys basically using Sovereign Citizen level bullshit to justify their self-righteous commission of TREASON as evidence for Starfleet being corrupt it... A very interesting strategy, let's say.
Watched any actual Star Trek
Recently
Because I know that one of the first things I did before starting my own design quest was skim through as much of Ent as I could manage (I loved Enterprise conceptually but good god was that show a Voyager level letdown in actual execution) and rewatching some of TOS.
Like, Starfleet not being a military (paramilitary, absolutely, but not actually a military) is a major political and philosophical choice on the part of the Federation.
And uh.
Bringing up section 31, aka the guys basically using Sovereign Citizen level bullshit to justify their self-righteous commission of TREASON as evidence for Starfleet being corrupt it... A very interesting strategy, let's say.
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It's certainly a very self-flattering piece of propaganda, and one which is useful for the Federation Council and Congress to propagate within Starfleet to dissuade it from flexing its political muscle. That doesn't make it true -- at best, it's an ideal to live up to, but it isn't more often than not.
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
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- Absconding with Alacrity
Starfleet is explicitly not military. We've seen what a Federation military looks like in a couple Dark Timelines caused by various time travel incidents, and it bares only a passing resemblance to the Starfleet of the prime timeline. Roddenberry outright stated that Starfleet as an organization was based heavily on the US Coast Guard - Paramilitary, absolutely, with some military responsibilities, but that is not the Starfleet's primary responsibility.
Granted, they get a bit more militant after the Borg and the Dominion, but are still not really a military in structure, role or function.