Starfleet Design Bureau

I think it is hinted that the next big plateau for Humanity, after warp travel became a thing, is reliable time travel and this eventually necessitates the temporal prime directive.

I always thought going back to prequels was a bit of a weird choice, ENT is great, but I would have loved to see the 26th century where the federation starts developing time-ships and ships that are bigger on the inside than the outside. The wells class (third image) has to be one of my favorite star trek ships.
I know discovery went to the future, but personally I dislike that shows depiction of star trek (who would win coughing baby or an entire galaxy of civilizations).
The Temporal Lock Box | Star Trek Online
 
I always thought going back to prequels was a bit of a weird choice, ENT is great, but I would have loved to see the 26th century where the federation starts developing time-ships and ships that are bigger on the inside than the outside. The wells class (third image) has to be one of my favorite star trek ships.
I know discovery went to the future, but personally I dislike that shows depiction of star trek (who would win coughing baby or an entire galaxy of civilizations).
The Temporal Lock Box | Star Trek Online
The problem is that is too close to another really popular bit of media and while you could absolutely do them differently enough to make them stand apart it would be a hard sell to produce without stepping on the toes of another "time machines that are bigger on the inside" series.

Meanwhile a known moneymaker is an easier sell to producers and Star Trek is right in the nostalgia golden zone. I don't think the new continuity hit it out of the park in any sense of the word, but why they tried is at least sensible.
 
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Honestly I didn't mind the premise behind DIS that much. I would have preferred that S31 remained an actual Black Ops intel organization instead of 'Hard men making hard decisions while hard' (and also not a real part of Starfleet but instead rogue commanders) but, the plot itself was interesting. Could they have done it better? Sure. Did the ships look terrible? Up for debate, but I thought so. The Federation in the future was just such a good hook, that got me way more invested in the show than I really should have.
 
Pretty sure Trek has at least a couple more plateaus that we get glimpses of but don't really see much. One of the things in Trek is that species all exist sorta on a continuum between stone tools and Q. There seems to be segments, like warp drive and time travel, that reaching puts you into another universal context. Within those contexts civilizations can oppose one another and even if one is technologically superior it's not entirely one sided.

But the Federation is not at the top of that scale.

I think it is hinted that the next big plateau for Humanity, after warp travel became a thing, is reliable time travel and this eventually necessitates the temporal prime directive.

Yes... I may have used a poor choice word with "singularity". I meant more with specific technologies. By and large it seems that some form of particle weapon and antimatter warheads are essentially the pinnacle of weapons tech in Trek. Every race seems to be develop them, and every race has them. Super powerful, incredibly advanced races still use essentially the same types of weapons. Better versions, more refined, but... really the same thing.

There is a curveball in Trek that seems to be a general upper limit on technology in that it seems that the natural life cycle of a race is to "ascend" into a non-corporeal state.

Look at someone like the Vulcans, who have had warp drive for something like 2,000 years prior to meeting Earth... they were using essentially the same technology. Better, more refined versions, but the same technology.

Meanwhile a known moneymaker is an easier sell to producers and Star Trek is right in the nostalgia golden zone. I don't think the new continuity hit it out of the park in any sense of the word, but why they tried is at least sensible.

That's part of why Discovery is baffling. "All of the nostalgia... but with none of the nostalgia!"

SNW finally tried to do it better, and it does. Discovery was riding on nostalgia and... somehow... just didn't ACTUALLY bank it AT ALL. Discovery would have actually benefitted from just taking place post-Nemesis. It all works so much better, because nothing about the show has anything to do with TOS anyway until Season 2, and even then it's kind of shoehorned in.
 
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The problem is that is too close to another really popular bit of media and while you could absolutely do them differently enough to make them stand apart it would be a hard sell to produce without stepping on the toes of another "time machines that are bigger on the inside" series.

Yeah I get that too much time travel would have gotten comparisons to doctor who, just saying that canonically the earliest time ships are built in the 26th century, and I would have loved a series set in that time period. Star trek has some sort of time war going on in the background that's touched on in ENT and STO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
The thing about trying to graph weapons tech is:

In VOY, photon torps can be apparently scaled up to planet crackers somewhat easily.
DS9 introduces quantums, which use vacumn energy and are uh.. stronger. Somehow. Don't ask how.
VOY introduces transphasics which are yet again *stronger*

... I feeel that weapons tech too closely tracks the plot to be chartable.
 
Yeah I get that too much time travel would have gotten comparisons to doctor who, just saying that canonically the earliest time ships are built in the 26th century, and I would have loved a series set in that time period. Star trek has some sort of time war going on in the background that's touched on in ENT and STO. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The funny thing is you'd think this would come up in DIS S3+ when you know, warp travel is hyperlimited due to the Burn.
 
The thing about trying to graph weapons tech is:

In VOY, photon torps can be apparently scaled up to planet crackers somewhat easily.
DS9 introduces quantums, which use vacumn energy and are uh.. stronger. Somehow. Don't ask how.
VOY introduces transphasics which are yet again *stronger*

... I feeel that weapons tech too closely tracks the plot to be chartable.

Are they actually stronger or just different.

Just going by the name, Transphasic torps would seem to do well against the Borg.

There may just be different uses for different types of weapons. DS9 also still use Photons.

The funny thing is you'd think this would come up in DIS S3+ when you know, warp travel is hyperlimited due to the Burn.

It did though... the Temporal Wars had "ended" by then, a treaty signed, and time travel technology outlawed and destroyed.
 
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Are they actually stronger or just different.

Just going by the name, Transphasic torps would seem to do well against the Borg.

There may just be different uses for different types of weapons. DS9 also still use Photons.



It did though... the Temporal Wars had "ended" by then, a treaty signed, and time travel technology outlawed and destroyed.

TIC (in beta canon) is established to be uptime of DIS, and Aegis is uptime of everything.


As for transphasics, no, they are in fact the strongest, (although the Borg still adapt to them anyway, because why have the Borg be reasonable.)

It's peculiarly weird.
 
SNW finally tried to do it better, and it does.

Great show in general, honestly. I love the fact that it strikes a good balance between seriousness and silliness (though I'm sure YMMV). Though I must admit, there are some interesting ship designs that came out of Discovery (the Malachowski-class the Clarke belongs to alongside the Hoover-class the Edison is a part of in the 23rd century, and the Friendship-class with the hovering nacelles in the 32nd century, all stand out to me, with the tugboat that is the Zimmerman being an interesting take on nacelle struts as well).

Side note, can't wait for the musical omake for our timeline.
 
That still doesn't really explain the progression from the word photonic to the word photon. My hypothesis explains it as photonic referring to an explosion that produces photons while photon refers to an explosion the produces only photons. Your explanation would increase the reaction rate and peak power output but the net energy would remain the same. Any antimatter ejected by the energy from the initial annihilation would impact the matter of the torpedo that surrounds it and annihilate anyway, the total amount of antimatter escaping unannihilated would be negligible even without pre-mixing.
If I had to guess?
The difference is efficiency. When your warhead explodes, you want it all to blow at the same time for the maximum impulse/impact and preferably all focused in the same direction, not to drag it out over several seconds or minutes

The Little Boy bomb had an efficiency of 1.4%; Fat Man had an efficiency of 17%.
Modern pure fission bombs approach 50% effieciency.
They all use the same process, but the efficiency rates are very different.
 
Great show in general, honestly. I love the fact that it strikes a good balance between seriousness and silliness (though I'm sure YMMV)

SNW is ok. Season 2 went alittle too heavy on the silliness. And that musical travesty was the single worst episode in all of Trek history. VOY "Threshold" is just, bad and stupid. TOS "Spocks Brain" is just ridiculous. The musical... was outright painful to watch.

I like not having to be super serious all the time, but... it went too hard.

Though I must admit, there are some interesting ship designs that came out of Discovery (the Malachowski-class the Clarke belongs to alongside the Hoover-class the Edison is a part of in the 23rd century, and the Friendship-class with the hovering nacelles in the 32nd century, all stand out to me, with the tugboat that is the Zimmerman being an interesting take on nacelle struts as well).

Most of the Discovery ship designs are horrible pre-Season 3. They get much better with the time jump. SNW is much better on the ship design front. I do wish they would have used John Eaves' original Enterprise re-design, which was essentially a TOS Constitution with some extra bits added on.

The Nimitz is my favorite of them.

Wasn't huge on it at first but it grew on me, I became ok with the Klingon Sarcophogus ship.
 
For the torpedoes I could see delivery method being another reason for distinct classifications. Torpedoes that can partially phase, adjust to have a stronger shield impact because of shield harmonics, or maybe slip some damage through using rapid computation at close range would make sense to me as reasons for new names. Some tech that would be harmful to organics or hardware but works on a one time use weapon doesn't sound crazy.
 
And that musical travesty was the single worst episode in all of Trek history.

Eh, like I said, mileage varies. I loved Subspace Rhapsody specifically for how silly it was, and in my opinion, we got plenty of serious moments to balance it out (Una's court-martial, an exploration of the effects of the Federation-Klingon war through M'Benga, Chapel and Ortegas' experiences with the Klingon ambassador, the Gorn Hegemony plot ramping up).

The Kelcie May was also a rather interesting take on Starfleet design with a healthy mix of Vulcan shipbuilding influence.

Edit: About the only gripe I have with SNW (and modern Trek as a whole) is their aversion to having phasers be beams. It's what made them different from Star Wars' turbolasers! Why try and ape another franchise like that when you already have a distinctive style of main weapon?
 
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Whilst I've not seen it yet, I must admit SNWs (and the Kelvin timeline too, I guess) depiction of the Gorn does rather turn me off from it. They're not insects, they're damn space reptiles, they shouldn't be doing the parasitic reproduction thing that to my knowledge is more or less unique to insects (and definitely doesn't occur in reptiles); to say nothing if the fact they're (going by memory alpha) doing some Alien prequel shit as far as their blinding spit apparently also somehow carrying the eggs that infect people.

The great variation at different life stages I'm not so opposed to, but it honestly seems a bit extra. They probably should have stuck closer to the ENT redesign, though obviously less limited by now superior prosthetics/CGI.
 
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All told, they're an alien species. Who's to say what biological paradigms that they follow that aren't found on Earth to ensure their survival and propagation? And up until this point, we've not really had any run-ins with adults of the species beyond a moment in the final episode of SNW Season 2, which while I won't spoil for those who haven't seen it, is a rather cool design. I'll reserve my judgment until we see more of the adults than the juveniles.
 
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Eh, like I said, mileage varies. I loved Subspace Rhapsody specifically for how silly it was, and in my opinion, we got plenty of serious moments to balance it out (Una's court-martial, an exploration of the effects of the Federation-Klingon war through M'Benga, Chapel and Ortegas' experiences with the Klingon ambassador, the Gorn Hegemony plot ramping up).

Silly is ok. I like silly. DS9 "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" is one of my favorite episodes. Subspace Rhapsody was just... painful.

I'll reserve my judgment until we see more of the adults than the juveniles.

I wish they didn't use the Gorn at all. They don't belong there at this time. They could have done Tholians and everything fits. I do think that's the ticket though, about the juveniles...

I really think that the Gorn ship that arrives was actually there to help. Young Gorn are driven by an urge to eat and mate, with disasterous results. I think the adult Gorn "claimed" the planet, which was really a quarantine, and are there to clean up the mess of their young. To make it worse, the Gorn Spock killed in space... totally there to rescue Chapel.

The crew got beamed over the Gorn ship because they're trying to make sure they aren't infected with Gorn babies and treating them before sending them back.

I think it's the only twist that makes sense.
 
All told, they're an alien species. Who's to say what biological paradigms that they follow that aren't found on Earth to ensure their survival and propagation? And up until this point, we've not really had any run-ins with adults of the species beyond a moment in the final episode of SNW Season 2, which while I won't spoil for those who haven't seen it, is a rather cool design. I'll reserve my judgment until we see more of the adults than the juveniles.
Because they've basically turned them into Xenomorphs minus the acid blood. It's boring, and all because they wanted Alien/Aliens (and probably Predator too, amongst others) in Star Trek* (still better than when DIS did Die Hard in space, but I digress).

*Which we already have in the Hirogen, and Hunters.
 
Well, then, we'll simply chalk it up to differences in opinion and move on. Either way, I'm looking forward to Season 3.

In other news, I am ready for the Retrospective update to drop whenever Sayle has it ready for us. The omake I've been typing up for it is primed and ready to go.
 
Well, then, we'll simply chalk it up to differences in opinion and move on. Either way, I'm looking forward to Season 3.

In other news, I am ready for the Retrospective update to drop whenever Sayle has it ready for us. The omake I've been typing up for it is primed and ready to go.
Given the time of year, I figure it'll probably be out on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.

But yeah, really looking forward to both it, and your omake. I can wait to see just how many finally get built, and what great accolades they accrue.
 
Whilst I've not seen it yet, I must admit SNWs (and the Kelvin timeline too, I guess) depiction of the Gorn does rather turn me off from it.

Oh yeah I hate what they did to the poor Gorn, IDW comics did a much better job, look at them being civilized.

Comic panels taken from Star Trek: Alien Spotlight - Gorn
 
If I had to guess?
The difference is efficiency. When your warhead explodes, you want it all to blow at the same time for the maximum impulse/impact and preferably all focused in the same direction, not to drag it out over several seconds or minutes

The Little Boy bomb had an efficiency of 1.4%; Fat Man had an efficiency of 17%.
Modern pure fission bombs approach 50% effieciency.
They all use the same process, but the efficiency rates are very different.
Except with antimatter explosions there are only two sources of inefficiency, the escape of unannihilated antimatter and neutrino radiation. The former can be solved by surround the antimatter with normal matter so no matter what direction it goes it interacts with matter and the latter can only be solved by the use of some technological breakthrough to eliminate neutrino radiation altogether or find a way to harness the neutrino radiation somehow. And despite the increases in efficiency nuclear/atomic bombs were always called that until there was a paradigm shift in the form of the development of thermonuclear weapons which resulted in a vocabulary shift to differentiate them.

Tangential side note: the only pure fission nuke with a 50% efficiency that I know of was Ivy King and that was in large part due to the absurdly large uranium core they used, efficiency scales with the size of the fissile core you use. Ivy King was in 1952 which is over 70 years ago, not what I'd call modern, and all modern pure fission nukes have much lower efficiency than Ivy King because they have smaller cores and are usually tactical weapons where smaller yields are desired, if you want large yields boosted fission and thermonuclear bombs are better suited for the task, the only reason Ivy King was ever made was as a backup in case Ivy Mike turned out to be a failure.
 
On another topic, I wonder if the Warspite could be refit to have shields, it may be the only ship of its class remaining but there is precedent for single ship classes being refit with new technology, in the US Navy alone the USS Enterprise, USS Triton, and the USS Long Beach were all upgraded through their lifespan even though they were the only ships of their class. The Thunderchild class's warp 3.6 cruise makes it worthless for offense compared to the Sagarmatha class who's warp 5 efficient cruise is faster than the Thunderchild's 4.9 sprint but that 4.9 sprint is still more than enough for fast-response system defense. It has better maneuverability than the Sagarmatha, is its peer in firepower, and adding shields would shore up what is arguably its greatest weakness, its low defensive rating. Even if there's no room in the original design for a shield generator stuff like the cargo bay, which is needed for long distance expeditions but not for in-system defense where a starbase full of spare parts is minutes away, could be eliminated and turned into the space needed. Stuff like engines and weapons are probably too expensive to upgrade but with the a layer of shielding in addition to its polarized armor the Warspite could live out the rest of her days as Earth's last line of defence against attack, unlikely to see any action but invaluable if it is ever needed. Plus keeping the Warspite around means one less Sagarmatha class is needed to be kept at home for defensive duty, freeing it up to go out there and explore. Probably not something we as players would spend updates on but maybe something that happens in the background.
 
On another topic, I wonder if the Warspite could be refit to have shields, it may be the only ship of its class remaining but there is precedent for single ship classes being refit with new technology,
Unfortunately, Sayle's said that since there was only one survivor of the Thunderchild-class, it wouldn't likely see any future refits, especially given the cost of needing to pull out all those polarisation relays, which basically amounts to the entire outer hull.
 
Unfortunately, Sayle's said that since there was only one survivor of the Thunderchild-class, it wouldn't likely see any future refits, especially given the cost of needing to pull out all those polarisation relays, which basically amounts to the entire outer hull.
Is polarized armor incompatible with shields? I was thinking of adding shields over the armor for two layers of defense.
 
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