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[X] Forward Saucer Deflector (13 -> 15 Industry)
Y'all wanted to drop forward firepower for full coverage, don't go skimping on that now. Warships need to be minmaxed.
 
How about putting them on a rotating carousel or something? Or maybe having the launcher able to spin around inside the ship, and be able to launch through different tubes?
 
[X] Forward Saucer Deflector (13 -> 15 Industry)
Ultimately, I supported the saucer for aft fire coverage, so I think sticking with this makes sense to me. I do hope that this would result in some secondary hull in a tail, I think a large ship with no secondary hull at all would look wrong. @Sayle would the forward deflector mean just a saucer with nacelles attached, or would something extend out back to attach the nacelles to?
 
Model DC.14F said:
I think Torpedo Turrets are pretty impractical, given that the Torpedo Launcher System isn't exactly small. Just the launcher itself take up a decent chunk of the ship's interior space, Let alone the space needed for storing the ammunition.
Turning it into a turret would take up even more of the ship's valuable space, expose it beyond the ships defenses in order to give it the space to transverse, and reduce the reload and firing rate due to having to pop-out/in.

I think pretty much the only time we see Torpedos on Turrets are on Starbases, since they have the space for the entire launcher and magazine to be in a rotating turret, can cover the turrets within their shields envelope, and can't change directions to attack. And even then they have still have a few fixed launchers that rely on the Torpedo's own limited maneuverability.
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What if the turret was built into the main body itself? It would only really work on smaller ships, but it's a neat concept
 
Raw90 said:
[X] Forward Saucer Deflector (13 -> 15 Industry)
Ultimately, I supported the saucer for aft fire coverage, so I think sticking with this makes sense to me. I do hope that this would result in some secondary hull in a tail, I think a large ship with no secondary hull at all would look wrong. @Sayle would the forward deflector mean just a saucer with nacelles attached, or would something extend out back to attach the nacelles to?
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I imagine the ship will end up looking like the NX-class from the actual show, it did not get a secondary hull until a refit.
 
notgreat said:
A 5 vote difference with 143 voters is absolutely not a firm decision.
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A vote is still a vote and a small margin is functionally the same as a large one.


Looking at the update, given we have given up entirely on being able to burst down the Romulan's shields, we need to go with whatever design makes this thing as bulky and hard to kill as possible. Because we have to purpose build it, and since it will 100% lack the firepower to punch down shields in a timely fashion and will be incredibly slow and plodding even for a DN, being a brick is all it will have.


[X] Forward Saucer Deflector (13 -> 15 Industry)



Jensaarai said:
It's fine, we'll do the triangle on a smaller cruiser next time, don't y'all worry
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Day late and a dollar short. We wanted something to burst down shield and gave up on it for "Muh coverage" in addition to guaranteeing a slow and unwieldy design "That has a sure future!" which is rather shortsighted if we cannot guarantee a present. Besides just building it to build it is just stupid design. Don't bother making promises you won't keep.
 
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CuriousRaptor said:
A vote is still a vote and a small margin is functionally the same as a large one.


Looking at the update, given we' have given up entirely on being able to burst down the Romulan's shields, we need to go with whatever design makes this thing as bulky and hard to kill as possible. Because we have to purpose build it, and since it will 100% lack the firepower to punch down shields in a timely fashion and will be incredibly slow and plodding even for a DN, being a brick is all it will have.


[X] Forward Saucer Deflector (13 -> 15 Industry)




Day late and a dollar short. We wanted something to burst down shield and gave up on it for "Muh coverage" in addition to guaranteeing a slow and unwieldy design "That has a sure future!" which is rather shortsighted if we cannot guarantee a present. Besides just building it to build it is just stupid design. Don't bother making promises you won't keep.
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Don't discount the saucer just yet, it could give a fleet plenty of time to respond to an ambush, especially if we put a lot into point defense, and who knows? It might be cheaper to have smaller ships as our main offense, and compensate for their lack of defense with a large ship to protect the rest of the fleet
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Day late and a dollar short. We wanted something to burst down shield and gave up on it for "Muh coverage" in addition to guaranteeing a slow and unwieldy design "That has a sure future!" which is rather shortsighted if we cannot guarantee a present. Besides just building it to build it is just stupid design. Don't bother making promises you won't keep.
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This is just too much. We can concentrate half a saucer of firepower in almost every direction on a 400,000+ ton ship. This thing is going to swat ships out of the sky unless we skimp on the weapon options, which no one in the thread seems very inclined to do.

This outright hostility between people who are voting for different options is honestly getting over the top and tiresome.
 
Wolfyhuskydog said:
Kind of like a carrier? This could lead to carrier tactics down the line if we pursue this idea after the war
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Fighters did show up in the Starfleet Battles wargame that FASA put out (as did missiles as a more maneuverable and accurate but weaker alternative to torpedoes) but I wouldn't expect them to happen here. The technology just seems to be such that even purpose-built large fighters are of limited use due to being too vulnerable to phasers. Though you could perhaps see something like a Dreadnought supporting a group of heavily armed frigates equivalent to the Defiant-class, or potentially truly enormous mobile starbases forming the heart of an entire offensive fleet.

In that case it'd be something like all the supporting infrastructure and ships the US needed for the Pacific War rolled up into one mobile and heavily armed ship. A Superdreadnought, if you will.

Though like with the CVNs, I'd imagine such ships would also be really handy for humanitarian relief and support in peacetime.
 
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Though of a good way to phrase the role of the dreadnought, it's a shield instead of a sword, you can't win a fight with only a shield, and we already have our swords in the rest of the fleet, we need a shield to guard ourselves, so that we can defeat the enemy while they can only attack our defense, leaving themselves open
 
[X] Secondary Hull Deflector (13 -> 19 Industry)
Let me get this straight. We had the option of building a cheap Warbird killer that could fire all guns forward and half its guns Up down, left right. If we then installed a small secondary hull with some aft weaponry we would have been golden.

Instead we got the expensive full saucer and then people decide to intentionally weaken the forward arc and not to install a secondary hull for some stupid reason? WHY? If you want to retread Starfleets ships 1to1 everytime have at least the decency to make them functional able to fulfill their stated role of overwhelming Romulan shields! As it is This thing is slow overpriced boondoggle that will need a shitton of guns to do so but hey I am sure you all skimp out on guns for reason of Cost again.
Wolfyhuskydog said:
@Sayle Would it be possible to get missiles in the future? Like weaker torpedoes but with a wider firing arc?
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How can you even talk about deviating from the greatness of STAR TREK!!!!! We are purist retreading what came before again, again, again and again even(Especially) if it is boring. Missiles are not Starfleet designs so better forget it and think about the superiority of Starfleet Torpedos.
 
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Rule 3: Be Civil - Attack arguements not people.
Zimmerwald1915 said:
Seems like an argument against putting all our eggs into a massive hull to begin with, but sure let's sweep under the rug who made promises at the outset.
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Says the man perpetually malding and throwing a tantrum about Science. It's almost as if someone was trying to make sure and was unviable and hates anything purpose designed for conflict.
Wolfyhuskydog said:
Don't discount the saucer just yet, it could give a fleet plenty of time to respond to an ambush, especially if we put a lot into point defense, and who knows? It might be cheaper to have smaller ships as our main offense, and compensate for their lack of defense with a large ship to protect the rest of the fleet
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The issue isn't ambush. This thing should always have escorts so ambushes should be a minimal concern given it's going to have to have a fleet behind it. Cloaks aren't the issue here. Lack of being able to sustain firepower is. Because at this junction Romulan ships while slower at warp can just ignore us and go to Earth to bomb it to ashes because their shield catch all our damage sent at them. Cloaks are a threat but one we can beat with good tactical planning and use of fleet elements. Sheilds on the other hand make the battle almost unwinnable unless we massively outnumber them, which we won't because they've had head start both in tech and in spooling up their war machine.

Neither the NX nor the Stingray had enough firepower to pop shields. This was our one chance to try and make a ship to do so. It won't now, because it outright lacks the focused firepower and is too slow for any decent Romulan ship to either flee from our outmaneuver.


Wootius said:
This is just too much. We can concentrate half a saucer of firepower in almost every direction on a 400,000+ ton ship. This thing is going to swat ships out of the sky unless we skimp on the weapon options, which no one in the thread seems very inclined to do.

This outright hostility between people who are voting for different options is honestly getting over the top and tiresome.
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I apologize if my post came off hostile, but the sheer condescension that i felt was being talked down to me might have affected my reply.

@Jensaarai Sorry.

As for concentrated firepower? What concentrated firepower? This design is about as anti-concentrated firepower as it gets according to what Sayle wrote up in the update before last. The concentrated firepower was the Arrowhead. This is the "Spread the firepower out so you can't get ganked as easily" option. This ship would be great for engaging multiple foes at once, but burst dps? No, it's not a strong suit of the design. Any burst dps it gets is due to its size not its design and frankly given the tech disparity it's not going to be able to finish off any Romulan ship with how slow it's going to be due to lack of engines comparatively to a spritelier design. Because Romulans can easily outrun it and shrug off the dispersed phaser hits with their shields.
 
Bedpotato said:
[X] Secondary Hull Deflector (13 -> 19 Industry)
Let me get this straight. We had the oprion of building a cheap Warird killer that could fire all guns forward and half its guns Up down, left right. If we then installed a small secondary hull with some aft weaponry we would have been golden.

Instead we got the expensive full saucer and then people decide to intentionally weaken the forward arc and not to install a secondary hull for some stupid reason? WHY? If you want to retread Starfleets ships 1to1 everytime have at least the decency to make them functional able to fulfill their stated role of overwhelming Romulan shields! As it is This thing is slow overpriced boondoggle that will need a shitton of guns to do so but hey I am sure you all skimp out on guns for reason of Cost again.

How can you even talk about deviating from the greatness of STAR TREK!!!!! We are purist retreading what came before again, again, again and again even(Especially) if it is boring. Missiles are not Starfleet designs so better forget it and think about the superiority of Starfleet Topredoes.
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While I also wanted to avoid the full saucer, I feel like the design does have some merit, and it's kind of grown on me. We always have the option of making new designs later, so let's focus on what we can do now. We also decided to avoid the second hull because there is no real reason for it.
 
Bedpotato said:
Instead we got the expensive full saucer and then people decide to intentionally weaken the forward arc and not to install a secondary hull for some stupid reason? WHY? If you want to retread Starfleets ships 1to1 everytime have at least the decency to make them functional able to fulfill their stated role of overwhelming Romulan shields! As it is This thing is slow overpriced boondoggle that will need a shitton of guns to do so but hey I am sure you all skimp out on guns for reason of Cost again.
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SDB is filled with Romulan sympathizers and spies!

I, for one, cannot wait to get my pointed ears back...
 
CuriousRaptor said:
Says the man perpetually malding and throwing a tantrum about Science. It's almost as if someone was trying to make sure and was unviable and hates anything purpose designed for conflict.

The issue isn't ambush. This thing should always have escorts so ambushes should be a minimal concern given it's going to have to have a fleet behind it. Cloaks aren't the issue here. Lack of being able to sustain firepower is. Because at this junction Romulan ships while slower at warp can just ignore us and go to Earth to bomb it to ashes because their shield catch all our damage sent at them. Cloaks are a threat but one we can beat with good tactical planning and use of fleet elements. Sheilds on the other hand make the battle almost unwinnable unless we massively outnumber them, which we won't because they've had head start both in tech and in spooling up their war machine.

Neither the NX nor the Stingray had enough firepower to pop shields. This was our one chance to try and make a ship to do so. It won't now, because it outright lacks the focused firepower and is too slow for any decent Romulan ship to either flee from our outmaneuver.



I apologize if my post came off hostile, but the sheer condescension that i felt was being talked down to me might have affected my reply.

@Jensaarai Sorry.

As for concentrated firepower? What concentrated firepower? This design is about as anti-concentrated firepower as it gets according to what Sayle wrote up in the update before last. The concentrated firepower was the Arrowhead. This is the "Spread the firepower out so you can't get ganked as easily" option. This ship would be great for engaging multiple foes at once, but burst dps? No, it's not a strong suit of the design. Any burst dps it gets is due to its size not its design and frankly given the tech disparity it's not going to be able to finish off any Romulan ship with how slow it's going to be due to lack of engines comparatively to a spritelier design. Because Romulans can easily outrun it and shrug off the dispersed phaser hits with their shields.
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I don't think the shields are that OP, or else Earth would be gone right now. We did pretty well all things considered, and the biggest problem was that our ships couldn't stand up to the enemy weapons, which this design is designed to do
 
Wolfyhuskydog said:
I don't think the shields are that OP, or else Earth would be gone right now. We did pretty well all things considered, and the biggest problem was that our ships couldn't stand up to the enemy weapons, which this design is designed to do
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Remember, there are multiple ways to fight a battle, and by trying to work with what we have, we might even be able to do better than if we went a certain other route.

On that note, am I missing anything important?
 
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