Starfleet Design Bureau

Cargo hauling is something that Starfleet is supposed to do, considering how many episodes are just Kirk and his crew taking supplies from one planet or station to another when they aren't doing diplomacy or investigating anomalies.
 
The thing is that the Federation is intended as an anchor for Starfleets border actions regardless

In the sense of crisis management the Shuttle Bays are better because of any ship it fights along with, it's the most likely to come out of it intact. Like, as the Federation stands now, it, it could throw down against...maybe half a dozen D7s if it had freedom in terms of setting the terms of engagement? With a single Excalibur for backup itd be even worse, especially given it's multi Target Damage and Coverage against Birds of Prey.

It'd take an outrageous amount of investment to take one out compared to Starfleets peers.

That kind of survivability means it can basically go into pirate-infested territories in the border regions, and swat them aside like they were nothing. Meaning that cargo transports via the Federation would be all but untouchable.

On the other hand, shuttlecraft being expanded means that it's much better suited acting as a first responder. Be that for planetside emergencies, or in providing emergency repairs to otherwise severely damaged ships

They're both good options depending on what you want to prioritize. The economic route obviously favors the storage stuff in this new golden age of piracy. Faster and more secure buildup of Federations border regions and thus faster growth of the Federation and Starfleet in particular

The militarized approachs favors the Shuttlecraft. Not that it doesn't lend itself well to emergency response in a peacetime context. Just that it'll make for a much better patrolship and emergency responder than anything else
 
Honestly I'm coming around on the cargo offering a unique functionality (hot-dropping defence satellites is pretty choice, we saw our old ships weren't good enough for that in the last war).
 
Unfortunately I think the crew quarter setup combined with the impulse engine placement and photon torpedo launcher placement might dash such plans; if we'd had a taller saucer it might have been doable.
Maybe drop deployment straight down out of the plane of the saucer... Workabees are pretty small. You could have bay doors that open up and allow the workabee to drop straight down into space.

Or, now that we have cargo in the engineering hull we go forward and install a workabee shuttlebay on the forward edge of the saucer where we didn't put an inline deflector. I know it isn't standard, but Starfleet could install a physical hatch on the hull that opens when the bay opens to allow it to be armored and to not throw off the aesthetics when the ship is just flying around.
 
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The thing is that the Federation is intended as an anchor for Starfleets border actions regardless

In the sense of crisis management the Shuttle Bays are better because of any ship it fights along with, it's the most likely to come out of it intact. Like, as the Federation stands now, it, it could throw down against...maybe half a dozen D7s if it had freedom in terms of setting the terms of engagement? With a single Excalibur for backup itd be even worse, especially given it's multi Target Damage and Coverage against Birds of Prey.

It'd take an outrageous amount of investment to take one out compared to Starfleets peers.

That kind of survivability means it can basically go into pirate-infested territories in the border regions, and swat them aside like they were nothing. Meaning that cargo transports via the Federation would be all but untouchable.

On the other hand, shuttlecraft being expanded means that it's much better suited acting as a first responder. Be that for planetside emergencies, or in providing emergency repairs to otherwise severely damaged ships

They're both good options depending on what you want to prioritize. The economic route obviously favors the storage stuff in this new golden age of piracy. Faster and more secure buildup of Federations border regions and thus faster growth of the Federation and Starfleet in particular

The militarized approachs favors the Shuttlecraft. Not that it doesn't lend itself well to emergency response in a peacetime context. Just that it'll make for a much better patrolship and emergency responder than anything else
Yeah, if we want emergency response we'll probably end up with shuttles, a smaller cargo bay, some kind of medical capability, a basic science lab, etc.

I think the problem is that an optimal emergency response ship will probably have to be a bit of a jack of all trades, which will sharply limit what it can do in peacetime, which will, again, probably limit our order size. Which means it won't be especially good at first response.
 
And if we go cargo and construction with this ship I could see it escorting like 4 Archers to the Frontline to build some really impressive infrastructure. The Archer is vulnerable, but they can all hide in the phaser coverage of a Federation and feel pretty secure from ambush.

A fleet anchor that can help with damage control for the rest of it's fleet seems to be quite a synergistic mix of capabilities.

That's not a peacetime capability though. I think the problem is, in my mind, we already MET the tender requirement for fleet anchor. That's done. We could go for extra credit double plus, but I worry if we do so at the expense of the other half of the tender, deep capability in a peacetime need.
 
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Maybe drop deployment straight down out of the plane of the saucer... Workabees are pretty small. You could have bay doors that open up and allow the workabee to drop straight down into space.
I mean, if I'm being honest the only difference between a worker bee and a cargo bee is going to be the power available to it (for tools, for the former). In the shows/movies they're basically the same, minus some differences in colour.

There really isn't anything (beyond word of GM, so we can't munchkin) stopping the cargo bay option from using its cargo bees as worker bees (and it might even have more given the sheer volume of potential cargo, compared to the two worker bees we know of from the shuttlebay variant), even if it's not quite as optimal.
 
Yeah, if we want emergency response we'll probably end up with shuttles, a smaller cargo bay, some kind of medical capability, a basic science lab, etc.

I think the problem is that an optimal emergency response ship will probably have to be a bit of a jack of all trades, which will sharply limit what it can do in peacetime, which will, again, probably limit our order size. Which means it won't be especially good at first response.
Yeah, if you're thinking of it as a pure first responder ship.

But a Fleet Anchor with First Responder capabilities is incredible, because that means the first responder becomes akin to a proper Mothership in a battlegroup.

Repair capabilities and a bit of everything in the craft most likely to survive combat in condition to support it's support ships is an incredible bit of functionality. There literally isn't a more secure place to keep those Workerbees. It's the same kind of logic as using it for bulk transport

Basically, the shuttle bay expansion feeds back into the original prompt
 
Yeah, if you're thinking of it as a pure first responder ship.

But a Fleet Anchor with First Responder capabilities is incredible, because that means the first responder becomes akin to a proper Mothership in a battlegroup.

Repair capabilities and a bit of everything in the craft most likely to survive combat in condition to support it's support ships is an incredible bit of functionality. There literally isn't a more secure place to keep those Workerbees. It's the same kind of logic as using it for bulk transport

Basically, the shuttle bay expansion feeds back into the original prompt
We cannot afford to specialize this ship into a warship. It needs to have significant peacetime capability, or else we're just going to be Radiant 2.0.
 
If the Miranda's expanded shuttlebay optionally doesn't give it the ability to do what we can with ours then I'll be reasonably inclined to vote for it, but otherwise the cargo capacity is literally something that can't be provided by anything but our slowest and most vulnerable design (whilst the exact cargoes will differ, by virtue of not being able to tow a fuck huge cargo pod), it'd probably be able to save them from running to the front/in danger zones any longer).
 
Yeah, if you're thinking of it as a pure first responder ship.

But a Fleet Anchor with First Responder capabilities is incredible, because that means the first responder becomes akin to a proper Mothership in a battlegroup.

Repair capabilities and a bit of everything in the craft most likely to survive combat in condition to support it's support ships is an incredible bit of functionality. There literally isn't a more secure place to keep those Workerbees. It's the same kind of logic as using it for bulk transport

Basically, the shuttle bay expansion feeds back into the original prompt
Yes, but I worry about over commiting to the first half of the prompt, for a fleet anchor, at the expense of the second half, for a ship with deep capability in a peacetime need.

We already have a fleet anchor with just what we have. Augmenting the fleet anchor ability is extra credit at this point.

I would rather get an A in both criteria than an S in one and a B in the other.
 
Maybe drop deployment straight down out of the plane of the saucer... Workabees are pretty small. You could have bay doors that open up and allow the workabee to drop straight down into space.

Or, now that we have cargo in the engineering hull we go forward and install a workabee shuttlebay on the forward edge of the saucer where we didn't put an inline deflector. I know it isn't standard, but Starfleet could install a physical hatch on the hull that opens when the bay opens to allow it to be armored and to not throw off the aesthetics when the ship is just flying around.

I'd be surprised if we got a third "more hanger" option.

I think Cargo gives better longevity, but Shuttles synergizes with more.
 
I'd be surprised if we got a third "more hanger" option.

I think Cargo gives better longevity, but Shuttles synergizes with more.
Cargo synergizes with different stuff, not less stuff. We could turn this ship into mobile deep space installation construction in hostile space ship and cargo would absolutely be ideal for that.

And do you know what else is volatile cargo you may want to haul into hostile space? Space mines. Maybe the next time Klingons threaten a Federation colony they fly their ass into a wall of boom.

Edit - Really both of these options play towards and engineering ship ether way, and a ship with a high engineering score is going to help with post battle repair of friendly ships regardless. This feels very much like us getting to choose raw engineering score (shuttlebays) or a somewhat lower engineering score that also happens to have specialist capability (cargo bays).
 
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Oh, I'm leaning more towards cargo now, but shuttles isn't without merit. There's always demand for "overnight" shipping with Federation Express.
 
Something else to consider with the shuttlebay, even if the Miranda's isn't comparable to what we are offered with ours (and nothing suggests this thus far), ships are continuing to get bigger and the craft carried with them more and more capable (we're not too far off TMP and the shuttles it offers), I don't think it'd be too long before this expanded shuttlebay capacity (and the repair ability associated with it) becomes standard amongst newer ships.

It'd leave the Federation without a niche, an expanded cargo bay (3-4 decks high) is something that is much less likely to get outmoded by simple advancement (at least until we hit Ambassador sized ships)
 
Something else to consider with the shuttlebay, even if the Miranda's isn't comparable to what we are offered with ours (and nothing suggests this thus far), ships are continuing to get bigger and the craft carried with them more and more capable (we're not too far off TMP and the shuttles it offers), I don't think it'd be too long before this expanded shuttlebay capacity (and the repair ability associated with it) becomes standard amongst newer ships.

It'd leave the Federation without a niche, an expanded cargo bay (3-4 decks high) is something that is much less likely to get outmoded by simply advancement (at least until we hit Ambassador sized ships)
Also if every ship carries a few shuttles then the fleet itself will have a lot of them flying around. I am not sure doubling the Federation's shuttle complement will make that much of a difference when it's going from 12 to 14 shuttles among the task group.

Meanwhile large cargo is a unique capability the rest of the fleet simply won't have.

EDIT - I would also not underestimate the usefulness of those cargo workabees acting like tugs and potentially pushing a disabled friendly (or enemy) ship into a better location (IE stable orbit) for repairs.
 
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I favor the increased shuttle bay both for the fact of fleet anchor with fleet tender function. But also for it's increased capability for evacuation stuff.

Also in general I really wanted the full hanger from earlier but that lost and this is the next best thing. I just really want the increase.
 
I like the cargo idea.

Imagine: the next war breaks out, the remaining Excaliburs get put on another U-Boat extended mission. A Federation Class is sent with them, carrying the supplies to construct a refueling/defense station in the black for logistical support.

With that, the Callies manage to strike deeper and longer than the enemy expects. While the other Freddie's are feeding them their teeth on the front line.

Like poetry.
 
Yeah. As I said before, Starfleet loves shuttles. They loved the Newton, they'll love the Miranda, those things spam out shuttles. So all the more reason for me to defect and go with the cargo bay as giving the Federation a niche to fill.
 
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