Just gonna highlight this quote. Maybe that'll buy us another
We have seen the future, and the future is beeg. Can't build more ships, gotta build better ships.
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Just gonna highlight this quote. Maybe that'll buy us another
We have seen the future, and the future is beeg. Can't build more ships, gotta build better ships.
Given the mention of a refit in 2265 (which is 5 years before the canon movie era refit) I think we've probably got one or two designs with this nacelle left, unless SanFran/any potential third bureau has been working on one over the war (given the Andorians are the only other operators of the Excalibur, and thus subject to the limitations of the nacelle too I'd bet good money it'd be by them — plus, they are the only non-earth home world design bureau with experience with modern Starfleet design principles, so they could also work on further designs for Starfleet).
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Starfleet's gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers. A vaguely savvy fellow would take this opportunity to point out that Logistics Is King, Klingons are worse at it than the Federation is, so they need more factories and whatnot.
In the question of quality vs quantity, embrace the healing power of "Both? Both. Both is good."
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Well seems like with the war behind that things can now move forward with whatever Starfleet deems useful. Though apparently the scale of Spaceships is going to be getting bigger, well guess that kind of makes sense in various ways.
Wonder what the next options will be, will they try and look in to something bigger then the Excalibur perhaps? Or something in a similar size range but with a different focus then combat. It probably won't be another small craft I guess.
In any case, hopefully it will be a relatively peaceful era. Even if there are still plenty of potential conflicts all around that could cause problems.
Wonder what the next options will be, will they try and look in to something bigger then the Excalibur perhaps? Or something in a similar size range but with a different focus then combat. It probably won't be another small craft I guess.
In any case, hopefully it will be a relatively peaceful era. Even if there are still plenty of potential conflicts all around that could cause problems.
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One thing we should make sure to do on ships when we have a spare slot and it makes sense to, add material hunting stuff. Clearly a bit of a bottle neck there. Also am sorta annoyed at the lesson of the war being we need bigger ships, when what we really need is more ships in my opinion, that or we start making space stations to put over every colonie to give time for a bigger ship to come back from doing what ever and smack the fools who where attacking.
Endorfinator
Awkwardly Social
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Yeah, we should be adding prospecting and mineral survey equipment to all our ships for the next two or build cycles.
LunaMoth
Wings of Kynareth is my comfort song...
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Strictly speaking, what got the negative result was light, cheap cruisers. The Attenborough, for instance, rather fails to be cheap; we stuck a lot of gun on it.
Some of what we could do to meet the "not light cruiser" requirement is to build noncombat frigates; this was actually a suggested action the last time we got the "stop building insufficiently armed cruisers" warning, though we didn't take it.
But fundamentally, the problem was that we let our designs drift below a critical breakpoint in military capability, and we're going to have to keep an eye out to not do that - especially since that breakpoint is likely to rise with technology.
Archduke
Don't Take Geology Puns For Granite
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Considering that the Excaliburs were the only ship of the fleet not found wanting, I can totally see why this was the take away. I do agree that we need proper Starbases, despite how useful the Pharos has been.
It is nice to see some of the "desirable features" for upcoming designs (weapon coverage, range, speed) so we'll have to keep them in mind.
If we're going to be doing defensive space stations over every colony like you propose, then they need to be fundamentally devoted to only two purposes; tactical primary, basic service for traveling ships secondary, small as possible to maximize gun per ton. We're never going to have the militarized infrastructure needed to do more with the quantity you want.
No mission creep, no Good Idea Fairies.
As a corollary to that, if we're going to increase range and capability for combat ships as the debriefing suggests there's flat out never going to be a point again where we build a small cheap craft like we did on occasion.
Small-er, Cheap-er, in relation to Big Chungi like the Excalibur? Sure - but anything that's small and cheap in an objective sense as opposed to only by comparison to bigger ships will need to be relegated to "emergency crash build" categories with minimal crew that is handled by entities not us, except as an occasional generational update every couple of decades in our off time.
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Defense stations powered by fusion don't have warp cores, and thus take a lot fewer resources out of our strategic materials budget.
(Still some, though. Pretty sure phasers and torpedo tubes still use those. So I don't think we can put defense stations over every major colony.)
Science stations might be better; finding new resources, better uses of old resources, etc etc might let us break into synthetic dilithium sooner, say.
(Still some, though. Pretty sure phasers and torpedo tubes still use those. So I don't think we can put defense stations over every major colony.)
Science stations might be better; finding new resources, better uses of old resources, etc etc might let us break into synthetic dilithium sooner, say.
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Non-combat Science Stations might be an idea, if we make them small enough to be towed through Warp by bigger ships so they can use fusion instead of AM. Although that begs the question about exactly how small we can make a science station and still cover the broader necessities.
If we had one that did basic science (science value of 4-6, engineering of 2-4, maybe?) + dilithium scanning, could we get away with a midget design that only has a crew of a dozen or so + a single shuttle bay, after accounting for decent long-term habitation?
The Pharos uses fusion rather than AM, despite being big enough to need to be built in place.
I'd be in favor of a smaller one (with slightly more defenses than the merely nominal stuff the Pharos got since it won't be at the center of a logistics web), so that they can be put together wherever the Federation finds an interesting enough anomaly to poke, or alternatively a really big one that has a secondary function as a defense station over critical worlds.
Thanks for the update.
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Range
Strategic speed
Big, capable, multirole ships
Increased weapons coverage
Those appear to be the preliminary lessons of this war.
Im guessing we start work on a new explorer design in the next decade and half to replace the Sagmarthas, with all those lessons in mind, at least as soon as RnD is done digesting all the Klingon samples the Empire was so kind to provide.
But the pressing priority is probably an updated engineering/multirole cruiser class to begin replacing all the Cygnus/Selachii/Keas that are still on the roster.
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Range
Strategic speed
Big, capable, multirole ships
Increased weapons coverage
Those appear to be the preliminary lessons of this war.
Im guessing we start work on a new explorer design in the next decade and half to replace the Sagmarthas, with all those lessons in mind, at least as soon as RnD is done digesting all the Klingon samples the Empire was so kind to provide.
But the pressing priority is probably an updated engineering/multirole cruiser class to begin replacing all the Cygnus/Selachii/Keas that are still on the roster.
Time to build the Miranda.
A semi-modular station design, where we could alternate between an orbital office, regula one and starbase 375/173 depending on the bottom half attached (even if all these examples have some rather big size discrepancies), would be fun.
Engineering/civil, science and tactical options.
Engineering/civil, science and tactical options.
Military grade armor also has a special resource. Stations are large enough that they can't have shields, so they need a lot more armor.
The war has pretty conclusively come down on the part of size and capability over small, specialized and cheap.
Thats likely to dominate Starfleet design thinking until and unless there's another change in the technological status quo
If its small, it might as well be an unmanned probe or satellite constellation.
But Im not seeing any margin in building small manned undefended outposts for the purposes of science that will be vulnerable to any wannabe with a not-technical. Most routine research missions in Federation space will be handled by civilian ships anyway.
No, it says we need size and capability if it's a combat chassis. Certain designs such as the Pharos with its massive antimatter and ship-building facilities may end-up becoming a combat chassis due to its significant investment, but so long as it doesn't represent a tactical, strategic, or financial target worth the hassle of pissing off the Federation there is indeed plenty of room for small, cheap, and specialized.
It was attempting to repeatedly ignore the ancient mantra of "Cheap, Good, Reliable - pick two" that made so many war-unworthy ships. For that purpose, we should effectively never pick Cheap as one of the two primary focuses when building our starships.
But I mean, if we can do a completely unmanned science station that's worth the cost (and can search for dilithium) I am absolutely all in on that.
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I wonder which Houses paid the compensation sums as a matter of honour; and whether the only ones to do so were ones aligned with the House Duras concern (preventing Sarek's geopolitically dangerous angle of attack on their future warfighting capabilities continuing in exchange for a treaty) or if any who paid had other reasonings.
Those are the houses Starfleet should be paying very close attention to and if they're small trying to subtly support them.
KleverKil'Vanya
Ortillery Operator
Wow already got some one trying to shill for cheap under powered ships not a day after being explicitly told that it's a horrible idea, much wow