- Location
- Actually pretty lost
[x] Hydroponics (+2 Science, Hydroponics)
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On fuel supply and range, do people view antimatter as closer to diesel or closer to uranium?
By this I mean, with hydrocarbon powered ships, you "refuel" all the time. Sail from one port to another, top off your tanks, move on.
Then you have nuclear wessels (wink). With nuclear submarines and carriers, they're expected to go for years of operation without refueling, and when they get more nuclear fuel for their reactors it's a major operation that represents a milestone in the service life of the ship.
All this talk of moving antimatter around and "topping up" other ships makes it seem like people are thinking of antimatter like diesel. Something you move around from tank to tank pretty freely rather than like uranium, where every refueling operation is a highly technical effort using fuel rods procured and designed for that specific purpose.
By this I mean, with hydrocarbon powered ships, you "refuel" all the time. Sail from one port to another, top off your tanks, move on.
Then you have nuclear wessels (wink). With nuclear submarines and carriers, they're expected to go for years of operation without refueling, and when they get more nuclear fuel for their reactors it's a major operation that represents a milestone in the service life of the ship.
All this talk of moving antimatter around and "topping up" other ships makes it seem like people are thinking of antimatter like diesel. Something you move around from tank to tank pretty freely rather than like uranium, where every refueling operation is a highly technical effort using fuel rods procured and designed for that specific purpose.
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
I have to say, as a half-saucer advocate, I never liked the half-saucer = warship, full saucer = explorer meme. Half-saucer for high mobility frontal firepower warships is great, but I think full saucer makes much more sense for our old dreadnought designs.
I do think the current technology of "only two phasers can fire at once, the rest is just for coverage" favours this kind of high mobility frontal firepower where half-saucer is useful, though, so they seem to fit the current military paradigm.
I do think the current technology of "only two phasers can fire at once, the rest is just for coverage" favours this kind of high mobility frontal firepower where half-saucer is useful, though, so they seem to fit the current military paradigm.
I've been stewing on this for a little bit, but I have a thought:
Why can't we still crash design and build a Light Cruiser/Heavy Frigate like the Skate and Selachii?
I mean, if it's the warp core being too big why can't we just steal from the Sabre-class and put an underslung Secondary/Engineering Hull on the underside of the Dorito of Violence? We can even mount the nacelles on the back corners of the primary hull, or strut them off of the secondary hull if we need to keep them exposed due to how we're at their limit(or near it)
Put a few foward phasers and a Rapid Fire launcher(or two) on the front of it to focus fire and BOOM.
I call it the Makhaira, after a precursor to the historical Sabre.
Why can't we still crash design and build a Light Cruiser/Heavy Frigate like the Skate and Selachii?
I mean, if it's the warp core being too big why can't we just steal from the Sabre-class and put an underslung Secondary/Engineering Hull on the underside of the Dorito of Violence? We can even mount the nacelles on the back corners of the primary hull, or strut them off of the secondary hull if we need to keep them exposed due to how we're at their limit(or near it)
Put a few foward phasers and a Rapid Fire launcher(or two) on the front of it to focus fire and BOOM.
I call it the Makhaira, after a precursor to the historical Sabre.
- Location
- USA
Look up the US Navy's Ice Cream Ships.
I mean, that's just a new ship at that point, a new neck means redoing the engineering hull with how the warp core is place. Then a new saucer?
Skip the refit and do an Excelsior early.
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and honestly, the idea at least used to be that we'd likely be designing a seperate Warp 8/9 Explorer after this war anyway, at least due to what Starfleet Command wanted out of the Connie.
Mostly warp core height, absolute minimum height is 7 decks and more realistically 9 when the accoutrements are taken into account (as can we seen on the Project Constitution saucer).
The Miranda-class in the rear section has about 10-11 or so rather solid decks (compared to our 15 overall and 6-ish in the rear of the saucer), so something with a similar thickness would be needed for our light cruiser, imo. Though if you really bulled out the rear and added another deck on top we would be able to fit it into a saucer fairly similar to the Project Constitution one.
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Chargone
Invisable operator
- Location
- New Zealand
Ships use it up and need refueling on a regular basis (less so with these better engines) and so need to have the equipment to do so Reasonably easily. And we can just have extra tanks of the stuff, which is piped into the reactor as needed (otherwise your extra storage would be a dedicated antimatter-tank storage room similar to the torpedo magazines, with the whole tank being swapped out, rather than tanks themselves built into the ship). Which indicates that, with the correct equipment in place, moving it around is a matter of making Absolutely sure that all the connectors actually Connect properly and then just, setting the machine up correctly, and pressing "go".
So, probably closer to refueling a jet fighter or airliner (whichever is more technical and/or complicated) than a car, but certainly not all the way over at the uranium end of the scale. Lots of room for complete catastrophy if you screw it up, so you don't let untrained randoms try outside of the most dire emergencies, but not actually that complicated to do right.
Though I can't think of a sane way of moving anti-matter from one ship to another directly (rather than via a station they're both docked to) that doesn't involve either the two ships physically docking with each other or Maybe a shuttle capable of acting as a tanker (either built with a large antimatter tank, or carrying smaller tanks like regular cargo (wouldn't want to be the crewmen doing That job)). No just running a hose from one to the other, Faaar too many ways for That to go wrong.
The equipment needed to facilitate all that is certainly vastly more complicated to build and maintain than would be the case for diesel, of course. But using it? Probably not so much.
That's my thinking, at least.
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KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
I feel like an Excelsior is 2 generations ahead. I think there's room for a hullform closely resembling the Enterprise Refit design in the interim.
Would a Triangle Primary Hull and Secondary Underslung hull be enough?
There are good reasons to make an explorer as big as possible. One reason is to pack enough firepower to hold its own in situations where it's alone. And to have enough room to make it as self-sufficient as possible. This is where a hydroponics bay would come in handy.
And because I frankly am eagerly awaiting the chance to design the first "BIG BOI" ship class of the Federation proper.
And because I frankly am eagerly awaiting the chance to design the first "BIG BOI" ship class of the Federation proper.
It depends on the role, for a light cruiser I'd prefer to maximise useable volume (so either chonk half saucer or deep dish full saucer, monohull), but for a super frigate that could work.
2232: Project Constitution (Aft Saucer)
[X] Antimatter Storage (Range: 120ly -> 357ly)
[X] Fabrication Workshop (+2 Engineering, Fabrication)
The extra antimatter pods are installed in a protected bunker near main engineering, bringing the ship an extra two years of fuel at an efficient cruise and by far the furthest range of any starship built to date. Second is a basic workshop capable of assembly and stocking the kind of equipment needed to work some of the more advanced materials used in a starship's systems. It won't build anything from scratch but allows more in-depth maintenance than would have been possible with the swappable spare parts most ships carry.
Having filled the engineering section you move on to the main saucer where the aft section is likewise absent any critical systems. You have a few choices you could fit in the space. First is the obvious - the area is well suited for an extra shuttlebay. Doubling the Constitution's main shuttle complement is always good, but a secondary launch point is helpful to have in case damage or an accident renders the first inoperable.
Second is a main cargo bay that would provide a more centralised and robust storage space for supplies and cargo than the smaller storage rooms dotted around the ship. If you want the Constitution to be in a position to actually move a decent amount of non-supply material then this would be an ideal pick.
Third is an expansion to the medical bay, aiming to add more biobeds and diagnostic equipment than is traditionally carried aboard a starship. While certainly useful for triage and the usual array of ailments and injuries expected aboard a starship it would also add some extra stretch room for more serious illnesses that would usually require planetside care.
Lastly is a general science package that would give the Constitution the ability to undertake basic sample and data analysis across a broad spectrum. While not the match of any field-specific laboratories it would at least provide the ship some capability to do interesting work beyond the bare-bones that every Federation starship is capable of.
Pick Two
[ ] Extra Shuttlebay (+2 Engineering)
[ ] Main Cargo Bay (+3 Cargo)
[ ] Expanded Medical (+2 Science)
[ ] Science Labs (+4 Science)
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
[X] Fabrication Workshop (+2 Engineering, Fabrication)
The extra antimatter pods are installed in a protected bunker near main engineering, bringing the ship an extra two years of fuel at an efficient cruise and by far the furthest range of any starship built to date. Second is a basic workshop capable of assembly and stocking the kind of equipment needed to work some of the more advanced materials used in a starship's systems. It won't build anything from scratch but allows more in-depth maintenance than would have been possible with the swappable spare parts most ships carry.
Having filled the engineering section you move on to the main saucer where the aft section is likewise absent any critical systems. You have a few choices you could fit in the space. First is the obvious - the area is well suited for an extra shuttlebay. Doubling the Constitution's main shuttle complement is always good, but a secondary launch point is helpful to have in case damage or an accident renders the first inoperable.
Second is a main cargo bay that would provide a more centralised and robust storage space for supplies and cargo than the smaller storage rooms dotted around the ship. If you want the Constitution to be in a position to actually move a decent amount of non-supply material then this would be an ideal pick.
Third is an expansion to the medical bay, aiming to add more biobeds and diagnostic equipment than is traditionally carried aboard a starship. While certainly useful for triage and the usual array of ailments and injuries expected aboard a starship it would also add some extra stretch room for more serious illnesses that would usually require planetside care.
Lastly is a general science package that would give the Constitution the ability to undertake basic sample and data analysis across a broad spectrum. While not the match of any field-specific laboratories it would at least provide the ship some capability to do interesting work beyond the bare-bones that every Federation starship is capable of.
Pick Two
[ ] Extra Shuttlebay (+2 Engineering)
[ ] Main Cargo Bay (+3 Cargo)
[ ] Expanded Medical (+2 Science)
[ ] Science Labs (+4 Science)
Two Hour Moratorium, Please
chaotic-logic
possible impossibility
- Location
- unknown
i would say shuttle bay and medical for these
TheShadowDeamon
Mighty Dragon
[ ] Expanded Medical (+2 Science)
This will definatly be a much needed thing in war and can be used for any colony medical issues it might get an SOS from
I'd be happy with either of these, both would aid in versatility:
[ ] Extra Shuttlebay (+2 Engineering)
[ ] Main Cargo Bay (+3 Cargo)
This will definatly be a much needed thing in war and can be used for any colony medical issues it might get an SOS from
I'd be happy with either of these, both would aid in versatility:
[ ] Extra Shuttlebay (+2 Engineering)
[ ] Main Cargo Bay (+3 Cargo)
Since we already went with the fabrication workshop and this doesn't provide any extra cargo in and of itself I'm disinclined to pick the extra shuttlebay.
Many of the missions of the canon Connie were related to cargo transport, and whilst the Archer does far more bulk than this ever could that's big bulk items at a slower warp factor. This is probably my second choice.
Expanded medical will generally be useful for fleet combat scenarios as well as general long duration missions, and also for whenever we encounter medical emergencies around the Federation or just outside of it. This is my primary choice.
General purpose science labs have been noted to loose effectiveness long term compared to specialist ones, though the basic boost isn't something to be sneezed at, however knowing that the canon Connie didn't have too much in the way of extra lab space the later Enterprises would means we wouldn't loose out too much if this wasn't picked. It is a tertiary choice.
@Sayle how long would you say the general purpose science labs here would retain effectiveness?
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Considering the excessive range, science labs might be the best add on, since with great combat and okay science, you could send this ship to a lot of unknown situations and have it do okay. Especially with the engineering we already have.
The TOS Enterprise didn't actually have that much in the way of lab space, at least from what I recall, it had a decent emphasis on engineering and medical/plant science but general science was relegated mostly to Mr. Spock.
I would want to add science lab with medical because it would give the ship a longer life span. In the past we have seen pure ships last so little amount of time.