Starfleet Design Bureau

Of course a fourth redundant thruster could be installed to redistribute the engines back to port and starboard, again preserving the internal space. Your inner designer hurts a little at the waste, but it's still less expensive than upgrading to the Type-3s.

[ ] Four Type-2 Thrusters (33 -> 42 Cost) [Very High Maneuverability]

Hmm... tempting, I must say. I'll still argue for the three-thruster layout, as it's still a little cheaper for the same amount of maneuverability. But I'll advocate for the four-thruster option where a little more expenditure allows us to fit in a larger internal module.
 
New option is here:
Of course a fourth redundant thruster could be installed to redistribute the engines back to port and starboard, again preserving the internal space. Your inner designer hurts a little at the waste, but it's still less expensive than upgrading to the Type-3s.

[ ] Four Type-2 Thrusters (33 -> 42 Cost) [Very High Maneuverability]
Edit: Just barely got :ninja2:'d.
 
To make a choice here I'd- saying "I" because I'm probably the only one confused here- probably need info on the scaling of costs, how much is too much?
Honestly, every attempt to figure this out earlier seemingly amounted to "all the rapid launchers and all the type three thrusters are way too much, but beyond that... *shrug*".
And the real issue is probably "how many can be built?". Keeping the size down helps with that (supposedly), and not going all in on the rapid fire launchers probably also helps here too but... *shrug*.
Seriously, the RF launchers are so expensive as to render almost everything else's costs meaningless in comparison (unless that changed).
 
@Sayle can we get confirmation as to how many of our Phasers can fire at once.

I was under the impression that 2 of our current Phasers can fire at once (so 18*2) but I'm seeing a lot of claims that only one can fire at a time (18 max).
 
So this was in another post, but as I understand it improvements to our shields over the tested technology are EXTREMELY expensive and we're really waiting on the next generation of technology entirely. So I say we rely on our hull plating and being really hard to hit in the first place.

Hey hey, we can do the [ ] Four Type-2 Thrusters (33 -> 42 Cost) [Very High Maneuverability] now! Open up some module space for whatever suits our fancy later.
Interesting. There is something to be said for redundancy and this being the A10 Warthog of Starfleet that can fight a mission using one of its four engines. But I'm still going to suggest we go for the concentrated power of the smaller engines. Producing specialized parts like an impulse drive has to be a production bottleneck.

[ ] Two Type-3 Thrusters (33 -> 45.5 Cost) [Very High Manoeuvrability]

The rest of the galaxy: Ship combat is a slow and stratigic affair. A meeting of minds, knowing your enemy, and mastering yourself.
SDB: HIGHWAY. TO. THE. DANGER-ZONE!
We do know ourselves. That's why we put an Andorian at the helm, a Vulcan at Tactical, and a human in engineering :p
 
Y'know, the really neat part of putting four Type-2s on the ship is that it enables a super cool maneuver where you try to go to Extreme Maneuverability and crack the hull just a little bit.

*cough* I mean, redundancy. It gives a lot of redundancy for the engines, preventing the ship from losing its impulse movement in all but the most extreme amounts of damage.
 
Agreed. @Sayle What is our budget for this project beyond 'not too much'?

If I give you a number people are going to get calculators out and try and math the perfect thing. You know what, I'll give you an underbudget/overbudget indicator.

You're currently underbudget.

You are currently under your expected budget.
Current Expected Budget: 33.6 -> 38
Current Canon Budget: 33.3 -> 37.6
 
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Long string of quote responses (not spaghetti-quote because they're all to different posts):
We don't actually know if that's the case though, not until the component is actually drawn up and put on the LCARS diagram.
We know it has a neck, singular, rather than struts. (ninja'd by QM post anyway lol)
Where, exactly? Because I've scoured Sayle's recent posts and found absolutely no such statement.
This is the ship that Starfleet will be sending on the five year mission. Full stop.
mmmmmmm plausibly, yeah. Probably, maybe. Full stop? I would very much like to see a definitive QM statement to that effect, if you've got one.

For one thing, Sayle is generally fairly inclined to offer design briefs for things the thread would like to do, and I don't think anybody's arguing that we'd like to design a proper flagship Explorer post-war.

For another, the in-universe Starfleet Design Bureau has a long and mostly-storied history of giving Starfleet what it thinks they need, not necessarily what they're asked for, dating back to their earliest work on the Stingray-class. I don't particularly care if our next design brief is asking for a better-rounded cruiser or a more modern science vessel or a modern diplomatic ship, we can vote it big enough and capable enough (and expensive enough) to be an Explorer.
I hope ya'll are happy.
Quite, actually.
I don't care about the 5 year mission, I care that this cruiser cannot cruise.

Independent patrol, long range scouting, deep raiding, and commerce protection. These are the "cruising jobs" that I keep hammering on about.
...We're about to be fighting a defensive war. As in, being invaded. The main arena of battle will be inside our own territory.

I'm not saying independent patrol, long range scouting, deep raiding, or commerce protection are useless, but they come a very, very, very distant second to "enough force responding quickly enough to win major fleet actions deep inside our interior".
Good. The less ability this... thing... has to do anything but fight, sooner we can get rid of it.
Wow, rude.
Did the cost of the prototype shield go up?
Dramatically =(
two standard and one rapid launcher, which has less Dakka than two rapids, I'm not so sure about that.
always feels dangerous to assume the high roll for a prototype, when it's significantly (if, granted, not overwhelmingly) more likely that 2 rapid will equal 2 std + 1 rapid than exceed them. Always safer to judge prototypes by either median or worst-case outcomes, rather than best-case, imo.

Hey, an update!
Of course a fourth redundant thruster could be installed to redistribute the engines back to port and starboard, again preserving the internal space. Your inner designer hurts a little at the waste, but it's still less expensive than upgrading to the Type-3s.
Yup, this is the way to go. It's only a "waste" in a vacuum; in context, it's a savings of tightly-limited module space over the triple Type-2s, while maintaining its maneuverability at very modest cost downside, or a savings of 3.5 Cost over double Type 3s at no downside.

[ ] Four Type-2 Thrusters (33 -> 42 Cost) [Very High Maneuverability]
 
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If I give you a number people are going to get calculators out and try and math the perfect thing. You know what, I'll give you an underbudget/overbudget indicator.

You're currently underbudget.
With regards to highly expensive components, like the rapid fire torpedo launcher, how quickly would mass production/war expedience bring the cost down to more normal levels? The first flight? Half way through it? Half way through the second flight?
 
If I give you a number people are going to get calculators out and try and math the perfect thing. You know what, I'll give you an underbudget/overbudget indicator.

You're currently underbudget.
Cool! Under Budget and Over Budget are enough, but I definitely had no idea we were under at the moment.

Given that we are currently under, and that the four type 2s will be a production bottleneck limiting our run - especially in wartime - I'm back on the Type 3 train.
 
Just remember to include Cargo guys. We want these guys to be able to do long patrols, as well as to deliver supplies.

Edit: Reminder that using old-types is going to be outdated faster. Type 3 are going to be the go-to. We should match our newest ship to that expectation.
 
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If I give you a number people are going to get calculators out and try and math the perfect thing. You know what, I'll give you an underbudget/overbudget indicator.

You're currently underbudget.

You are currently under your expected budget.
Current Expected Budget: 33.6 -> 38
Current Canon Budget: 33.3 -> 37.6

Type three it is!
 
i'd say use the type 3s.

while it;s still a prototype tech we actually aren't far off from it becoming a standard tech, only 7 years. if this ship launches let's say 2030 it would be 5 years before the type 3s are standard which cuts the cost for a second run in 2035 or later by 2.5 which is 43. i'd say that is worth it for the aditional internal space
 
Hmm, adding the 4th T2 does mean that we can get VH with them without losing module space, but OTOH it is literally only a 2.5 Cost savings when we're already underbudget for what Starfleet expects, and the T3s will accelerate rollout to make them cheaper in the future too.

Still leaning the 2x T3s I think, but I'll probably end up swapping to 4x T2s if that's what's needed to claw back some volume.
 
I'm unconvinced 1 extra standard launcher is enough. We need at least one RFL facing forward.
This is my concern, yeah.

The only true failure condition on this design is "not good enough to take D7s in a fight," and I don't feel happy assuming a single extra standard wil be enough firepower.

Yup, this is the way to go. It's only a "waste" in a vacuum; in context, it's a savings of tightly-limited module space over the triple Type-2s, while maintaining its maneuverability at very modest cost downside, or a savings of 3.5 Cost over double Type 3s at no downside.
Eeeh, Type 3 hits standard soon enough that I think we can mostly model it as a 1 Cost savings over the double 3s. But that 1 cost is still 1 cost, and I think all it'd be getting us is slightly better propulsion tech long term, when we're already doing very well in that.
 
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