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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Personally, I'd do the 5Esp/1 siphoning, though I can see doing 1 ap into the hammer as well. With 6 difficult ap, we get 5 total simple research actions. We could finish the dragon autopsy and light, do light and diction, finish the mystery sword entirely, or get most of happening done.
We only have 4 AP this turn though, remember? And I'm pretty sure the pool increase won't kick in until next turn.
 
Perhaps scheduling a viewing ahead of time so the proper security precautions can be made and people can stop trying to sneak peeks early?
 
Ancestors help us indeed. Just imagine if we get stuck having to play host to thousands of Runesmiths of note and other individuals of import rather than working. The horror
....the not!Hold outside our workshop is about to become a full on rune city at this rate, full of runelords, rune smiths, and their apprentices coming en mass, and then each needing to continue their lessons and deciding to use the nearest convenient secured location the rhuniversity. Cue all the bars heavily investing in even more runic conveniences and trade routes for reagents and everyone just finds it too convenient to leave
 
[ ] [Difficult] Understand the Master Rune of Thungni [Engineering]: [Cost: 12 actions]. Snerra gave you an item bearing this Rune. It is...by all that is good this is something you must understand before you die, when not if.
@soulcake I believe Mind for Constucts should still proc here, as it did in the previous listing on Turn 56.
Mind for Constructs [8/15]: Every 2 research actions used for researching Engineering and [Construct] Runes add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Every 3 request or research actions that involve Constructs but not Runes add 2 extra progress. Possesses a deep understanding of Gronti and the mechanics of the Dwarfen form.
[ ] [Difficult] Understand the Master Rune of Thungni [Engineering]: [Cost: 24 actions] Mind for Constructs will proc. Snerra gave you an item bearing this Rune. It is...by all that is good this is something you must understand before you die, when not if.
 
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After a talk with the rest of the Discordin, I've decided to swap to two plan variants. One with Waystones, the other allowing us to start on Siphoning and our super-drakk.

[] Plan: Fires of Inspiration, Waystones and Banner
-[] Snorri & Karstah
--[] Accept Starlight
--[] Drakk Rearing [1 Heir]
--[] [Simple] Azrilzhufgotten Pt. 2 [1 Heir]
---[] Combo, Goruz-Kazak Rikkaz: Master Rune of Traversal [T4 Radiant Pegasus' Heart], Rune of Impact [T3 Stonehorn Leg Muscles], Rune of Amber [T4 Barazgal].
--[] [Simple] Flamedrinking Talismans Pt. 2 [1 Heir]
---[] Combo, Flamedrinking: [Rune of Thungni's Presence, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Forgeflame]
--[] [Simple] The Secrets of Light Pt. 2 [2 Research]
--[] [Difficult] Monolith Mastery Pt. 1 [2 AP]
--[] [Difficult] Extrasensory Perception Pt. 1 [2 AP]
-[] Retainers & Orders
--[] Expedition, Aiding Krum [1 Retainer + Industry of the North]
--[] Expedition, Aiding Kraka Drakk [1 Retainer]
--[] Order: Elder Stonehorn's Horns
--[] Queenly Authority Order: Barazgal [-15 Kraka Grom Favor]

[] Plan: Fires of Inspiration, Hammer and Metal Drakk
-[] Snorri & Karstah
--[] Accept Starlight
--[] Drakk Rearing [1 Heir]
--[] [Difficult] Design Skaudardrengi, The Singing Slayer, Emperor Dragon Gronti [1 Heir]
---[] An exemplary Storm Wyrm forged from pure Adamant, with eyes of glowing Dronril shielded by metallic lids. It is as large as the largest and oldest Wyrms at forty five meters from nose to tail and its scales shine with power. The story of Kraka Drakk and it's inhabitants is inscribed onto its wings in panoramic mural and gemstones. This artwork and its immense might are meant to be a tribute to the Hold that Snorri has lived in for almost half a millennia, to mark Khazagar as a legacy for Kraka Drakk. Thus its power is meant to defeat the greatest members of the Dumi. It is cleverly designed such that it weighs far less than expected for its size and offsets some of its significant ground pressure. Furthermore, its Horns, Wings, front left Claw, and three special chest scales for Armor runes, are all designed to have runes of their own in the future. A mechanism in its mouth will hold the item that creates its Breath Weapon. Finally, a cleverly concealed Adamant screw-plug longer than two dwarfs are tall is in its chest, held in place by a perfect fit and massive internal locking bars and mechanisms which are unlocked by secret commands given to the Gronti - and behind this plug in the core of its body lies its Heart Chamber. The animating Runes of the Gronti are inscribed into the walls of this Heart Chamber, while a slot for the future Heart itself lies empty. [Uses 192 Bars of Adamant. The theme of this: "A metal behemoth of the Storm Above and the Deep Below. Cladding itself in the Storm within, its thunder and might fueled by the endless vigor of the Deep."]
---[] Choose: Master Rune of Awakening [T4 Greedy Troll Heart], Rune of Empowerment [T4 Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart] + Rune of Siphoning (Engineering) [T4 Greedy Troll Heart].
--[] [Simple] Flamedrinking Talismans Pt. 2 [1 Heir]
---[] Combo, Flamedrinking: [Rune of Thungni's Presence, Rune of Thungni, Rune of Forgeflame]
--[] Examine Karaz-Kazak-Rhun [1 AP]
--[] [Difficult] Extrasensory Perception Pt. 1 [2 AP]
--[] [Simple] The Secrets of Light Pt. 2 [2 Research]
--[] [Difficult] Convert a Regular Rune: Siphoning to Engineering [1 AP]
-[] Retainers & Orders
--[] Expedition, Aiding Krum [1 Retainer + Industry of the North]
--[] Expedition, Aiding Kraka Drakk [1 Retainer]
--[] Order: Elder Stonehorn's Horns
--[] Queenly Authority Order: Barazgal [-15 Kraka Grom Favor]
 
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Social: Choose 2 outside of Plan Vote.
[ ] [Social:] Brynna covertly attends a competition in Khazagar.
[ ] [Social:] Dwalin, shopping for reagents in the Grozurbaz with his son.

- I can never pass up the free chance of checking in on our greatest pet project yet.

Rorek: Choose 1 outside of Plan Vote.
[ ] [Letters:] Knowledge about reactions to you running off with Karaz-Kazak-Rhun [Extensive, Evolving]

- Oh, hey, fan (hate) mail!
 
It's good to see that the interpretation that Alric would support us had we chosen to be Thungni heir or be our own Dawi is correct.
 
Here's my own take on the plan for this turn. Mainly as set up.

[] Plan: Refining Our Eyes and the Dragon Kaiju Begins
-[] Snorri & Karstah
--[] The Enduring War Rune 1 Snorri + 1 Karstah + 1 Retainer. Already covered, this is for action tracking purposes.
--[] [Difficult] Extra-sensory Pt. 1 2 Snorri
--[] [Simple] Slave Wyrm Autopsy 1 Simple
--[] [Simple] The Secrets of Light Pt. 2 Simple
--[] Examine Karaz-Kazak-Rhun 1 Snorri
--[] [Difficult] Convert Siphoning to Engineering 1 Snorri

--[] [Difficult] Design Skaudardrengi, The Singing Slayer, Emperor Dragon Gronti: An exemplary 45 meter Storm Wyrm forged from pure Adamant, with eyes of glowing Dronril shielded by metallic lids. Rest linked in this post.
---[] Choose: Master Rune of Awakening (T4 Greedy Troll Heart) + Empowerment (T4 Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart) + Engineering Siphoning (T4 Greedy Troll Heart). 1 Karstah

--[] [Difficult] Build Azrilzhufgotten, The Silver River Banner: 2 Karstah
--[] [Difficult] Starlight: Due end of Turn 59.
---[] Accept
-[] Retainers & Orders
--[] Expedition, Aiding Krum 1 Retainer + 1 Industry of the North
--[] Expedition, Aiding Kraka Drakk 1 Retainer
--[] Princely Hunting: T4 Radiant Pegasus
--[] Queenly Authority, Additional Order: T4 Barazgal 15 Kraka Grom Favor


Article:
Skaudardrengi Design

An exemplary Storm Wyrm forged from pure Adamant, with eyes of glowing Dronril shielded by metallic lids. It is as large as the largest and oldest Wyrms at forty five meters from nose to tail and its scales shine with the power of its Runes.

The story of Kraka Drakk and it's inhabitants will be inscribed onto its wings' in carven mural and gemstones, once they are completed. This artwork and its immense might are meant to be a tribute to the Hold that Snorri has lived in for almost half a millennia, and to mark Khazagar as a legacy for Kraka Drakk. Thus its power is meant to defeat the greatest members of the Dumi.

It is cleverly designed such that it weighs far less than expected for its size and offsets some of its significant ground pressure. Furthermore, its Horns, Wings, front left Claw, and three special chest scales for Armor runes, are all designed to have runes of their own in the future. A mechanism in its mouth will hold the item that creates its Breath. Finally, a cleverly concealed Adamant screw-plug longer than two dwarfs are tall is in its chest, held in place by a perfect seamless fit and massive internal locking bars and mechanisms which are unlocked by secret commands given to the Gronti - and behind this plug, in the core of its body, lies its Heart Chamber. The animating Runes of the Gronti are inscribed into the walls of this Heart Chamber, while a slot for the future Heart itself lies empty. Emperor Dragon Sized, uses 192 Bars of Adamant. Choose: Master Rune of Awakening (T4 Greedy Troll Heart) + Empowerment (T4 Dragon Ogre Shaggoth Heart) + Engineering Siphoning (T4 Greedy Troll Heart). 1 Karstah

The theme of this for further context is also: "A metal behemoth of the Storm Above and the Deep Below. Cladding itself in the Storm within, its thunder and might fueled by the endless vigor of the Deep."


I want to build a dragon that is a Kaiju, because Kaiju are cool. And as a design, this is meant to fight against Greater Daemons and the monstrosities Chaos can throw at us. It is so big to fulfill these two design goals and sheer size supports those goals for a couple of reasons. Strength scales with size, as does durability and difficulty to hurt its animating runes.

We don't know of anything that can pierce Runed Adamant, but if it does exist or come into being then being behind several meters of Adamant will shield the animating runes from harm. Additionally, Adamant is magically opaque, so a thick barrier will dampen or outright prevent magical shenanigans aimed at the runes.

Great size also makes it much much harder to grapple by any creature or force, or destroy with annihilation spells like Purple Sun of Xerxes or the Pit of Shades or any other "delete that area" spells - and mass of Adamant gives it significant magical resistance. It also gives it great weight, which can be used for certain fighting tactics, especially once we get Talismanic Master Rune of Featherweight onto its Wing item.

Aside from that at this size it can carry a great deal of aid, armed Dawi, and also act as a bulwark and mobile cover while on the ground.

As it stands once its designed, we just need to build the smelters turn 58 or 59 and we'll have enough Adamant to build it four to five turns after that (much less when we get Storm based increase in Smelter Output). The Combo logic is mainly about modifying and improving the Master Rune of Awakening to have a deeper and faster recharging pool of energy to make sure the Gronti has lots of energy available.


Anyway enough about why I want the dragon so Hueg. Plan wise this is just pretty simple and straight forward.
Cook out Progress on the Hammer, ESP, Light, and getting the Hearthguard Banner built while giving Karstah productivity exp and ensuring the best quality because they're gonna be marching. I don't have a lot to say about the plan otherwise because holy cow our research has been completely altered lol.

Only difference in this one between my plan and Rage's above dragon variant is that Rage has Karstah doing Drakk Rearing and Flamedrinking, which makes a lot of sense tbh. I'll vote for that plan too.
 
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I really feel like putting one of our own actions into Drakk Rearing would be a good idea. Our absentee parent tendencies should have limits.
 
I really feel like putting one of our own actions into Drakk Rearing would be a good idea. Our absentee parent tendencies should have limits.
LETS GO

[] Plan Snorri you daff Dorf you got grandchildren to spoil
-[] Snorri & Karstah
--[] Drakk Rearing 1 Snorri + 1 Karstah
--[] The Enduring War Rune 1 Snorri + 1 Karstah + 1 Retainer. Already covered, this is for action tracking purposes.
--[] [Difficult] Extra-sensory Pt. 1 2 Snorri
--[] [Simple] Slave Wyrm Autopsy 1 Simple
--[] [Simple] The Secrets of Light Pt. 2 Simple
--[] [Difficult] Convert Siphoning to Engineering 1 Snorri
--[] [Difficult] Build Azrilzhufgotten, The Silver River Banner: 2 Karstah
--[] [Difficult] Starlight: Due end of Turn 59.
---[] Accept
-[] Retainers & Orders
--[] Expedition, Aiding Krum 1 Retainer + 1 Industry of the North
--[] Expedition, Aiding Kraka Drakk 1 Retainer
--[] Princely Hunting: T4 Radiant Pegasus
--[] Queenly Authority, Additional Order: T4 Barazgal 15 Kraka Grom Favor
 
Updated Rune research costs:

MThungni: C9 12AP, done in 3/3/1M
Underworld flames: C8 1 + 2(8-8(odd mastered)-2(hammer) = 1 lololol
True adamant maker: C7, also 1
Deep gate: C6 1 + 2(6-2(power)-2(talisman)-2(hammer) = 1

MDawi: C0 1ap
Combo Mountainsouled: C4 1 + 2(4-2(hammer)) = 5
Makerstrike: C3 1 + 2(3-2(hammer)) = 3
StormMantle C1: 1 + 2(1-2(hammer) = 1
MFeatherweight C9 Understand 2 + 2(9-8(odd)-2(hammer) = 1

So uh, how about that deep gate everyone? I really think we should compress it next turn and do a redesign of bryn because that is downright insane. We can do 3esp/2waystones/1 deep gate and finish esp and the waystones.
 
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DOUBLE DRAKK REARING BEARDLINGS.

SNORRI CAN"T HIDE BEHIND HIS EXCUSES THAT THE DRAKK"S AREN"T HIS GRANDCHILDREN ANYMORE

But more seriously this is the only real hardline I have
 
(*Updated*)[ ] Accept Starlight Pt. 1: [Cost: 1 action] Due end of turn 59. Gain 60 Favour with Kraka Dorden. Snorri thinks Thane Morglum will seek another Runesmith by the end of turn 57. Thane Morglum Skarridum of Kraka Dorden has petitioned you with a request. A weapon to replace the now lost ancestral heirloom of his Clan after it was destroyed killing a Fimir in the defence of Kraka Dorden; he asks for a hammer, one who's blows could be akin to calling down the light of the stars themselves upon the enemies of his Hold. A bit uninspired, plenty of Starhammers out there after all, but still.
I think that we should probably do this, some time have passed since we made a weapon
 
Yep, the reaching dream of being on or near the level of the Ancestors was one of my motivation for that vote.

I also forgot to fully realize what it would do to Karstah to have to take up the mantle after us though. We have the benefit of having already having chosen her as our heir, but what about her? How will she choose who takes up the mantle after her? It'll likely be a search that'd involve the whole of dwarfkind (limited to the runesmiths it may be) which would be a headache and a half. A heavy burden to pass on to anyone.

edit: also yes, Double Drakk Rearing.
 
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